http://www.torontosun.com/2015/08/31...e-in-new-video
To all those who think Harper is a war monger for sending jets to fight these savages, please read this and try to justify your criticism. He is the only candidate with brains and morals.
Printable View
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/08/31...e-in-new-video
To all those who think Harper is a war monger for sending jets to fight these savages, please read this and try to justify your criticism. He is the only candidate with brains and morals.
Amen terrym. Amen.
We live in a scary world today. When a human can do this to another human then all morals are lost. Very sad that lives are treated this way.
According to Trudeau, we have to adapt and understand these people !!!! They all need exterminating !
Didn't he suggest that we send warm clothing over for the refugee's trying to escape the wrath of ISIS? God help this country if he or Muclair get in!Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
All of them?? I kind of doubt that.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
What needs to be done is to bomb those people into oblivion. Life has no meaning to them so they would understand right? Both Mulcair and Trudough have said they would not fight this evil.
All the ISIS militants, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter1
It makes us all very emotional to have to witness this type of treatment. It's a terrifying show and very upsetting so I understand the feelings. Really does want to make you strike back.
There already here and we don't know who they are start bombing
this is already bet they have one with a bomb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqHrTtvFFIs
wearing a burqa while driving a car, appearing in court, etc.
we cannot even deal with day-to-day issues, what do you think is going to happen if they notch it up here?
the only thing you'll see is that certain politicians will run to the mosque in hope to get additional votes - that's all politicians care about, and those who focus on the (unpleasant) truth are going to loose the election
nuke them all...end of story and if we are lucky Trudough$$ will be visiting them when the nuke goes off!
Alot of people have no clue about how big and how well armed groups like Hamas, Hezbollah and ISIL are. The area in the Islamic State was compared to an area about the size of England in something I recently read and in the past there have been lots of pictures of tanks, artillery and even a couple fighter jets.
There have been chemical weapons attacks from and on the Syrian gov't troops and there was recently a report of another mustard gas attack. There were tons of chemical weapons made by the Assad regime and we know the Hussein had a large amounts too and to think they don't intend to use them would be delusional or ignorant at best.
Kidnappings are common to sell girls and young women as sex slaves in the the markets, anyone that doesn't agree with them is a target, destruction of ancient ruins and monasteries (some were over 1,800 years old). They are rabid dogs not to be dismissed lightly, they are radical, intelligent, able to access the media and propagate their message world wide (some groups in places like Libya and Nigeria and Sudan have pledged allegiance to them).
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/0...195420900.html
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...1#.VeTOtvTHQ-0
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6002/isis-indonesia
Just think what these dogs can do with what they have, imagine on a busy day like black Friday a couple of chemical attacks on malls and subways across Canada. UK, Brazil (maybe during Olympics) and USA and planes shot down by SAMS in LA, New York, Atlanta, Toronto and London would do to the world and economy. It would draw the haters and radicals as recruits and have a huge impact and potentially huge loss of life.
We are on their target list just for existing and to sit back and do nothing in the light of what we know is beyond pathetic, those that say we shouldn't fight them are nothing more than "useful idiots" to use the old term at best. ISIL will encourage recruits and lone wolf attack on Canada even if all we did was send winter coats and to think otherwise is idiocy! I really wonder sometimes look back at history, Rwanda was during a Liberal gov't in power and there was even a Canadian General in the region..... one of those things that make you go hmmmmm.
Then there is Yemen and Saudi Arabia... ballistic missiles fired into Saudi Arabia.
http://www.janes.com/article/53865/y...t-saudi-arabia
Then there is this puzzle..... why would Syria want interceptors?
http://www.janes.com/article/53660/s...rs-from-russia
* I like to use ISIL instead of ISIS due to the Levant being part of their stated goals which include Iraq, Syria, Israel, Jordan and much of Turkey.
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htm.../20150825.aspx
Although ISIL (Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant) publicized an auction for slaves (captured non-Moslem women and children) in June they have since replaced that with a printed price list. Young children are the most expensive going for up to $200 each. Adolescent girls cost about $125 and adult women go for under a hundred dollars. The catch here is the buyers are restricted to ISIL gunmen, as something of a fringe benefit. The sales are made with the understanding that the buyer can resell their slave for whatever they can get. It is also understood that ISIL slave owners can try to arrange for families to ransom the slaves for whatever the owner can get (usually several thousand dollars each). The June 2015 slave auction in eastern Syria sold 42 Yazidi women who were offered to ISIL men for between $500 and $2,000. So being allowed to buy a slave is quite a lucrative fringe benefit.
Since the slaves were not Moslem they could not be married so their owners would use them for sex, housekeeping or whatever. ISIL was depending on Moslem scripture to justify this.
... and not just there but in Nigeria too
Boko Haram, revived slavery in 2014. Boko Haram, which considers themselves devout religious reformers, consider slaving justified by Islamic law. ... People living in the northeastern forests report that Boko Haram conducted mass marriage ceremonies for most of the teenage girls kidnapped in early 2014. The Boko Haram men paid the kidnappers about $12 for each “bride”.
Rabid dogs that need to be put down!
P.S.
a bit of history.
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htm.../20150826.aspx
Just when you think they can't possibly come up with a more cruel and sadistic way to kill a human being.....so sad
They learned it from the christians.Quote:
Originally Posted by warpipe
Well - one thing if you are fighting these guys you never want to give up - you are better off going down fighting - sex slaves and a lot of the other things mentioned have been going on in that part of the world for centuries - we are just hearing about it now because of the communication advances - what can we do about it - make sure that we put leaders in power who recognize the evil of these groups and do what is necessary to protect us - that part of the world has and will always be a mess - partly because the people themselves buy into what is preached there - the people themselves must fight for freedom if they want it - we should send them the means to fight but they must do the fighting themselves -
No doubt these terror groups have an eye on coming over here and causing destruction - as we have seen in some instances - as I have often said in the past - be ready because it is coming -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Fox - you got to remember what was done was not what Christ taught - so if you do things that don't follow the teaching of Christ I don't see how you can call yourself a Christian - yes people were burned at the stake because they did not follow the rules set up by the leaders of the Catholic Church at the time but I would hardly call those in power at the time - Christians - Christ teaches one to love their neighbor - treat others as you want to be treated - basically saying the your neighbor is everyone - to be kind, gentle, forgiving .etc. - hardly what was done in those days - amen
The basis for Islam is not to light people on fire either.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
The Bible can be taken in an evil way and so can the Koran, no matter what religion or lack there of someone is they can justify their actions both good and bad in any way they choose.
"Christians" have used the bible to kill people in horrible ways and still do in certain parts of the world, "Muslims" have used and still use the Koran as justification as well.
I use the quotations because neither are following the intent of the books but rather their twisted interpretations.
This incident is twisted and horrible, don't get me wrong, but it is not just something happening to non-muslims (the majority of people killed by these groups are Muslims but maybe not as extreme, similar to different Christian groups), this is happening and horrible no matter what religion but not all Muslims are like this.
Ok, maybe some "common sense"?
We all know religion is the root cause for many of the worlds problems, historically and presently.
Have Christians done similar? Well yes, just look at the witch hunts and inquisition....um I seem to think the history books teach us many were tortured and burned at the stake..... and what they did to those who followed "my" "religion". Look at what Christians did to Native North Americans and Inca's to..
But lets focus on today.
I don't see Christians today...at least not in the name of religion...
I do see a group hell bent on getting their way....again, not unlike the West sticking their noses into their lives, but before we blame the US for that...Boy we sure do enjoy the fruits and benefits don't we.
Pick a side imo, this one isn't going to go away.
Bloody religion, when will "we" ever learn....
Im a blend of Paganism, Buddhaism and other spiritualty.... If you ask me, its "you" people that are the heathens and scourge of the earth
;)
Either we decide to roll over, or we don't.
those are our options.
I have to pick humanity, I do not believe that the majority of people are bad or that any group are bad. I have jewish, muslim, black, brown, asian, white and native friends, they are good people and anyone attacking them as a member of a group that is by far the minority and obviously missing a few screws upstairs causes me problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
With ISIL we are talking about a high number of 100,000 fighters of a total population of muslim followers listed around 1.6 billion worldwide. It is by no means a large group of people and by no means the religion.
Some muslim countries are actually some of the most progressive, but they don't make the news.
Fox do you really "believe" it will end there, even if we can somehow stop ISIL in it's tracks? Which we need to do.
Now, I for one do not believe Islam will do it violently, nor do "we" need to use violence either. But if we don't start standing up for "our way of life", we will see Islam "take over"...See the way we are afraid to say boo here in Canada. The ways in which they are "assimiliating"....not unlike the Christains did hundreds of years ago. We are seeing it...
I'm all for "religious freedom". This is Canada, the Western world....If you don't like it....Don't try to change us, don't expect to force "your way" on us......don't come.
I am for stopping them but I am not for blaming Islam for them, this is where I have the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
I feel that we need to stand up for those who cannot stand for themselves and fight the atrocities but to read on here "nuke them" it scares the crap out of me, these comments are mirroring what these crazies are doing in the middle east and this is not a way of stopping things but rather escalating things.
I think that all religion needs to go away, too many people use religion as a way of brainwashing people and causing a lot of the crap in this world. If people used religion as a way to live that is fine but there are too many situations where comments like "our way of life" and "Islam will take over" that shows how religious freedom is not allowed. If someone wants to practice Islam then who cares, if someone wants to practice Christianity then who cares but to judge another for their choice of religion is a problem.
You say that "if you don't like it ... Don't try to change us, don't expect to force "your way" on us...don't come." Where was this when the natives were killed for not converting. Where was this when Muslims doing nothing wrong have their mosques defaced and what about the crimes towards Jews for just practicing the Jewish religion.
Don't change but don't force your beliefs down any ones throats no matter what your beliefs are, live and let live.
"Nuke them" scares the crap out of me,too. I think these comments come from people who have no concept of the global destruction that will surely ensue. Tarring the entire Muslim religion with the same brush of "radical Islam" is equally wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
However,I believe we must guard our own landmarks against pacifistic tendencies by our own liberal-minded people who become the radical's apologists and enablers banging the drum of political correctness,bullying people into following their warped conformist views by accusations of "racism" when we speak out and public vilification as a punitive action. These are the enemy who,by their actions against ordinary people who speak out,embolden the home-grown lunatic/terrorist fringe who already walk among us,to ghastly acts of incredible violence.
As far as fighting ISIS/ISIL,I don't understand why this isn't total war against them. It's not like they're a well-euipped and supplied 1Million man army that's laid siege to the entire middle east. It appears to me that they're operating in cells throughout the middle east with a fragmented command and control system which should be relatively easy to interrupt and destroy. They must be getting supplies from somewhere because most of the weaponry left over from the American withdrawl in Iraq has been destroyed. We need to find the suppliers and send them to hell ASAP. Expecting a rag-tag,poorly-trained and thoroughly corrupted army of Iraqis and Kurds to do the job of a few hundred thousand seasoned combat troops is beyond stupid. It smacks of typical Liberal/Democrat inability to make hard decisions and to take definitive action.
This is probably political as they span many nations. Syria is not a fan of the west and the west is not a fan of them, Iraq is a mixed bag at the moment and Turkey is iffy too.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
You cannot open all the companies up to a general war when they do not get along in the first place.
To say that area is complex is a huge understatement.
First: nice post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Second: Notice my use of quotes as in "our way" or "forcing their way"...Why do suppose I quoted select terms?
Third: Would it be acceptable for example, if big swaths of the Western World starting emigrating to say for example Japan and while we might want to maintain some of our customs/beleifs/practices..without persectution/other....expect to force our ideals into and on Japanese society? I'm going to assume you see why not, why wouldn't...Curious it seems ( I could be wrong) you are ok with that here? Do you think "westerners" should be able to emigrate to say Saudi Arabia, especially women and prance around in thongs and topless?
Lastly: There we go again, back to history aka Where was this when the natives were killed for not converting.
Well I didn't live back then, nor did you, nor did todays society. I'd like to think we are learning that forcing ones ideals be it Islam into our society (and by that I mean expecting special treatment, or PC ness and no more 'merry Christmas" or being offended by Christian Prayers but demanding.....or Burqas, etc, etc, etc) or as with Animal rights activist wanting to force their ideals on hunters, or Western ideals on the Mid east, and now them us and wanting to kill us all... or Zimbabwe or...So many things.
This isn't the 1500s or even the 1900s anymore.
Really great posts; not going to rehash what was already said.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
However, what do you mean by the last statement?
I bet history will repeat itself again (unfortunately). The only difference I can see is the pace that it is happening and that people are far more informed than ever. However, at the same time, the future victims (the western world) are less interested to protect their own interests (freedom, way of living, etc.) than any generation before.
This and examples of the past have nothing to do with religious freedom. So, religion needs to be taken out of the equation in the first place.
This is a war-like scenario: black and white. You may not like it, but that's how they see it, and there is no doubt that they are a threat to humanity. As long as we keep talking, I have friend who is this and that and a nice guy, we are not in a position to defend our society. So, in the end we all need to fess up what our position is - and that includes foremost Muslims. IMHO, if you wear a burqa, I doubt you oppose ISIS and the like.
So who is supplying ISIL ?? lots of info out there but what are you to believe.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-hel...forces/5434230
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...and-Syria.html
http://www.australiannationalreview....-weapons-isil/
What I meant by that Waftrudnir, was in part....By looking at... well they did it, we did it and assigning some kind of blame or justification (not sure how to phrase it)..What have we learned?
This is the present day and what happened 100 years ago, or 500 years ago....and subsequently.....have we not learned from the hatfields and McCoys?
Anytime these things come up, there are references to past societies...Are we the same?
In many ways, while I don't hold a lot of hope for humanity, we can see some changes, maybe/hopefully it's a slow tide but we are seeing the beginnings. Many, very many are turning from religion and instead finding 'spirituality" what ever the basis for that is. For me its my own set of "faiths" and can find it's roots in Paganism, Buddhism and some FNs. Many others are turning to Bhuddaism/Hindu.
While the world went bat shyte crazy over 'Cecil"....one group trying to force their ideals on others..there we go again..many more argued we can't force 1st world ideals, on 3rd world societies...People are learning.
peace to all mankind.
/sarcasm but ironically funny to.
We can no more bring our ideals, or force our ideals on others than they can us. and while the problems surrounding ISIL do need to handled by the sword....it wont stop there...unless we stand up for ourselves, our society. We can accept people who practice Islam into our society, no differently than we do other different religions or cultures....There's a world of difference between being accepting and tolerant and being compliant doormats. We sure as heck wouldn't expect to go there, and live as we do would we...or Japan or
The problem is anybody who tries to stand up for their own morals and beliefs which in North America and much of Europe is Cristianity there is a large part of the population that calls them bigots. If one tries to promote Cristian beliefs in a muslin country quite often they are attacked at best sometimes savagely murdered. There may be only a small percentage of evil extremists but if there are billions of peaceful moderates then surely they have the strength to crush this evil? You need to have the will to do so though. I don't see enough Muslim moderate strength intervening. Very telling.
ISIL will continue and dream up increasingly barbaric ways of treating victims. It's time for a major global assault on that group. We need to kill every one we can. Hopefully peaceful Islamist countries help.
Very true Terry, We all know people or have buddies but I hear narry a peep out of these so called moderates regarding the radicals amongst us and around the world. Saudia Arabia could destroy ISIL or any other freak show regieme in the mid east but they remain quiet for the same reason MOST of our friends and buddies do.
For those that cant see it I suggest they do more reading. In the mid east its acceptable in the name of religeon to murder , rape , enslave the enemy, in the west it is obviously not acceptable, so the solution here is to breed us out of existence and again I suggest you look at the demographics, most western families have 2 or 3 kids , whereas muslim families quite often have 7 , 8 or 9 kids so while it may take a generation or more they will achieve the goal.
For the record I am not a nuke em all kinda guy but I am old enough and wise enough (I hope ) to see what is in store for our culture and way of life. Yes.. accepting and understanding other cultures within Canada is important and imperetive to our growth as a country but we need to be deadly serious regarding how we ALL are to co_ exist in this country we call Canada.
In my opinion religious beliefs should have nothing to do do with achieving that goal.
For some people , christian , muslim, or whatever, religion is their life, not just a part of their life. I think that is where the problem lies.
if your religion doesn't call for you to kill those who disagree then no harm is done if religion is your life. Barbaric extremism is found in most societies and religions. The king of England used to behead those who irritated him. Nobody would refer to the British as a people who like to behead enemies today. There was a time when humans were tribal and constantly at war with each other. That is for the history books now. Societies that today act like ISIS or allow them to need to be stopped.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Religion unites them and divides us!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
As JBen wrote, we live in a pretty happy world. IMHO certainly not perfect, but by all means better than ever.
..., but then again, history will teach you that all the great societies were "replaced" when they were doing good, because some barbaric idiots cut them into pieces.
Look at the Saudi's: All western-high-life, but guess who funds that Muslim insanity that we witness currently...
A lot of "moderate" Muslims are not that moderate at all. They are just intelligent enough to know that their day has not come yet. Don't get me wrong; I'm not blaming them, but us! They would not behave that way, if we were not to allow it. We provide those opportunities, we even invite them that they can do whatever they want as long as they can somehow justify it with the right of religious freedom. Nobody else would do that! They operate motorised vehicles without being able to see a thing on the steet and swear an oath without showing their face/identity - and we say that's okay. Okay, considering my background, I can seriously claim that the religion I was born into allows me to consume alcohol all day long; do you think anyone cares about religious freedom if I show up drunk at work? Why do we allow them, what we don't allow us?
For those who say they really believe in and care about religious freedom, they should be the ones who act upon already, because religious freedom is the first thing they will take away - they are already staking off their claims here and have done so for decades in Europe. Many gotten away with no or less punishment for domestic and sexual crimes, because of their religious/ethinc background. Seeing what's going on right now with ISIS, you hope that people re-think the idea of how much religious freedom is too much!
Honestly, I don't think so. Look at the topic of Charte de la laïcité - North Americans don't get it yet. We consist of a community of "run away" Christian sects and we value the foundation that allowed this to happen here unlike across the pond. At least at that level, Europeans understand (due to the painful past and a couple of "purges") that religion should be kept out of government at all cost.
You mean like not allowing gays who love each other to marry? That kind of religion?
you're joking, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
if extremists fry people alive or rape little girls and sell them afterwards to get raped again, you're still joking?
if you still think that's funny, I buy you a one-way ticket - no joke!
What if only 1-in-1000 Muslims were willing to fly air planes into office buildings, slice off someone's head on video, suicide belt in a shopping mall?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
1-in-1000. I'm guessing that the real number world wide is much higher than that. They just have not had the opportunity or method to do it yet.
Let's say it's 1-in-10,000. Just to be apologetic to the "religion of peace".
If there are really 1.6 billion Muslims, then with the ultra soft apologetic number of 1-in-10,000 suicide bombers/murders that gives us 160,000 people world wide willing to do the daily atrocities that Islam promotes.
And if the number are too soft-- realistically it's more likely 1-in-100-- that predicts close to 16,000,000 who would happily lop off your head for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Religion A to Y or whatever may not approve of said marriages but unlike religion Z they do not punish offenders by stoning them to death or beheading them.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Compared to who? Examples please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
If he who is without sin cast the first stone.... no rocks would be thrown.
Although there may only be 100,000 fighters this does not tell us anything about how many among the general populace are okay with violence in the name of Islam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
A study done by PEW Research (non-partisan, non-religious think tank) in 2013 had some interesting findings. In general the majority were against the use of violence in the name of Islam but a significant minority (3-62% depending on the country) were okay with this. Applying any of those percentages to 1.6 billion yields a truly scary number.
This is a summary table regarding suicide bombing in the name of Islam taken from the study:
http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2013/09/EXTREM16.png
Food for thought.
The paper can be found at this link:
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/...remist-groups/
"with friends like you, who needs enemies?" is more suitable...Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
I think we are getting closer and closer each day of the need for a modern day crusade !!!
Add you own..current evils. By keeping our mouths shut, this happens.
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.
By opening our mouths, we are branded racist. Politicians are the worst as they will lie with anyone to get a vote. (trudough is worst), Harper is no different, as he courts the Asian and Sikh votes out west (I am conservative). Until it (evil actions) happens here in the worst way, the people will not wake up to reality. The problem is we need immigration; the problem is the charter – which allows immigrants and converts (to any religion) to practice freely. The problem is: the charter changed the assimilation characteristics of 1930-70’s immigrant to/of blend in mentality. Immigration in that time had seen massive numbers (like today), but the next generation were “Canadian” for the most part. Today we have whole “ethnic” communities and in some cases, the need to learn the culture and language of “Canada” is not needed. You can step off the plane and continue, reading, speaking, and practicing your country of origin right in your settled area. I am not saying this is wrong, but what is being lost is the transition of the first generation of immigrants who typically “Canadianized” within a generation. The problem is Canada was founded on Judea/Christian beliefs and these ratios are being whittled down as more immigrants take over the demographics. This is the slow erosion of Canada/Canadianism and what that used to mean to us. IS there an answer, I don’t know, what we can do to turn the tide, I don’t know. The future of the Canada of my youth is changing and I am not sure if this for the best. I think about it from time to time at what my children’s children future will look like and it makes me sad. The only bright thing I can see is my daughter and son were raised in this multi-cultural “norm” and see no race…..
They say that four generations from now, everyone will have some Chinese blood in them. And they won't have to fire a weapon, just open the gates.
what's your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Well - let me tell you something - when someone comes to a new country they are leaving the one they are coming from because things are better in the new country - yet when they come to the new country they try to maintain their old culture - if enough of them come they eventually change their new country into the one they came from - which was not good - I believe immigration is ok but a limit to the number of immigrants should be controlled so that the new arrivals have time to assimilate into the new country and take up the culture of that country -
I see where a lot of criticism of religions was voiced and the evils that were spawned from them mentioned but I noticed no one mentioned the evils and mass murders that the communists and pagans have done throughout the course of history - I'm sure these far out number the ones committed by established religions - the killings that went on in Russia, China and Cambodia are beyond count - judge a religion on what is teaches - not on what people do using that religion as an excuse
As far as the middle east is concerned - we should get the heck out of there - we don't need their oil and have no business over there anymore - if we think injustice is being done then we should send weapons to those who are being depressed - we have given enough of our treasure and blood in that region - all for nothing -
And finally - when it comes to Christianity - Jesus said "not all those that say Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven - only those who do the will of My Father" - He also said - at the end many will come and say that they did this and that in His name but He will say to them - "depart from me - I never knew you" - He was talking about people who claim to be Christians but don't practice it - Amen
You can control the world monetarily, just buy , buying it all up, China owns a good portion of it already. 100 years from now if mankind survives, we will all be the same family.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaroldH
You have to be kidding me, I guess someone from Louisiana better not eat their food if they move to New York. It is a different culture but they are white, go away.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
On top of that go back and count all of the wars that were backed by "God", pick a God, they are pretty much all backed by God, it is an excuse to brainwash the majority into fighting for you, it has nothing to do at all with any specific religious views as they all believe in the same thing as a base, be good to others, it is the golden rule.
Communism does not exist, Marxist communism has never occurred, all of these so called communist groups were dictatorships with large amounts of greed. True Communism where the society works for every other member of society is a Utopian society that we will never reach because people are constantly trying to one up each other.
I am sure you believe in putting up a giant fence and if you don't look a certain way or believe a certain way get the hell out, if your beliefs change then get the hell out.
I think this is a pretty good summary of why we are where we are right now. The problem is clusters. JT wants 25 000 refugees from Syria immediately – how to integrate them, no clue. Will they go back in a few years, certainly not.Quote:
Originally Posted by line052
However, I think that the concept of Canadianisation still works. I live in an area, where no race or religion has an absolute majority. There are more people (with various ethnical background) than you think that are specifically looking for that (whereas others still insist on living among their folks). In my daughter’s class she’s one of the few white children. Honestly, I was a bit concerned in the beginning. However, it’s too diverse that background could play a role. Most children are the first Canadian born generation and that is their identity since Kindergarten. People want to have something in common; if it’s not race or religion, they will pick the next best thing; e.g. level of education.
The problem comes when you don’t have individuals immigrating (who have no other choice than to integrate themselves), but if you start moving entire societies.
Multi-cultural societies (i.e. ethnic groups kept apart over generations) are a breeding ground for civil wars.
very true - and what is the difference when it comes to religions?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
there is none; noble ideas applied in ways to control the masses
Some thoughts.
~The people of the world worship some 5,000 gods (roughly fact). Don't worry "Joe" (tongue in cheek, not you singularly Joe), only yours is right.
~Good to see, like a lot of world, the current Pope get's it,
~Pope Francis.Quote:
It is not necessary to believe in God to be a good person. In a way, the traditional. Notion of God is outdated. One can be spiritual but not religious. It is not necessary to go to church and give money — for many, nature can be a church. Some of the best people in history do not believe in God, while some of the worst deeds were done in His name
Who knows, I certainly can't see the future but it started only about 20years ago. Today, there is a huge and growing segment of the worlds "society" is turning to spirituality (Bhuddism, Hindu (Namaste) anyone?, Paganism is resurging and Yoga and meditation, more)) and hopefully somewhere down the road the vast bulk find it and there is no more religion.
Period
It is not necessary to believe in God to be a good person. In a way, the traditional. Notion of God is outdated. One can be spiritual but not religious. It is not necessary to go to church and give money — for many, nature can be a church. Some of the best people in history do not believe in God, while some of the worst deeds were done in His name
How many (peaceful) years did it take the catholic church to get there?
And now look at where the Islam is heading at the moment, and the issue becomes clear!
It took the western society a century to overcome religious/Christian dogmas mostly due to scientific evolution. Down there, they are wiping out absolutely anything that reminds of a civilized past and a culture that was not solely centered around religion.
ISIS is a band of thugs ! They should be treated as such plain and simple or shall we let history repeat itself. Maybe they don't wear brown shirts or black shirts or white sheets with hoods but we're basically dealing with the same problem. As for the refugees ? YES I say ! We must do something. WE ARE CANADIANS ! If "we" do not attack the problem and help the suffering then "we" as Canadians should all hide our faces in shame !
Lest we forget !
Your concept of "Canadianism" is not Canadian at all - it's a Torontoism - and what goes on in Toronto is NOT what goes on in the rest of Canada. Toronto might as well be a separate country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waftrudnir
Canada's demographic ideal is the 'mosaic' with several distinct cultural backgrounds retaining their culture over several generations.in Canada. This is compared to the US 'melting pot' where second generation immigrants abandon their culture and become americanized.
We should be taking on double of what JT wants. The size of canada there's no reason we shouldn't. If Germany can take 800 000 this year surely we can do better with our size and resources. These people are fleeing ISIS, if they don't follow Isis's ways they are killed. I'm sure people had the same argument 150 years ago when a million Irish refugees came here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waftrudnir
Isis has been foot training for many years. They have around along time training why was nothing ever done before this year. Why alow them to get so big before they take any action.
Plus on another note most terrorist keep there word . If we kept out of this there would probably never ever be an attack on Canada. If they say they to blow up the malls look out cuz they do do what they say.
Thats all I need to say.if we want to help in the fight we aĺ better watch out because they have no other meaning in life .
They are nothing but scum.
I absolutely disagree. Canada has the widest and most far-ranging refugee immigrant policy in the western world. What screws us is our damn bureaucracy and red tape. Then again,we sure can't save everybody. The other thing that galls me to no end is politicians that use a terrible incident to gain opportunistic political electioneering points on the back of victims. That,I find reprehensible.Quote:
Originally Posted by cantcatchacold
agree 100% on the political opportunism. JT was quick to do exactly that. On the other hand as for refugees, these are legit cases. Victims of ISIL and wealthy nations should be helping as much as possible. The USA with its 10x larger economy and population is basically off limits to these refugees. That great human being and Nobel prize winning "Obama" sure doesn't walk the talk.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Yes, you're right: The "Canadianization" is completely different in rural areas and large cities (not only Toronto).Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Rural areas are white. How many white immigrants do we currently get? Nobody wants to stick out like a sore thumb. Add to that the fact that they are economically not very attractive (for newcomers), and you'll see that very few will go to rural areas. Those who do, will blend in in no time and will not change the mentality one bit.
In cities it's the opposite; the rate of change is rapid and there is no connection between cities and rural areas anymore. This is where our problem is in the future!
If you look to the south, you have black vs. white, in the far north you have native vs. white, but areas like Southern Ontario, where you have a big rural land mass and a mega city like the horseshoe we're getting into a relatively new problem.
"Were it not for a prescient strike against a Syrian nuclear reactor in 2007, which foreign media sources credit Israel with carrying out, the fanatics of Islamic State would now be in possession of their own nuclear facility."
- Former US diplomat Dennis P. Halpin.
This is what is so scary about the Iran deal.
It's not about taking refugees or not. The question is what you do with them when they are here. They will stay. Don't be fooled by the current numbers; the problem down there will continue for many years and will just get worse - it would be reasonable to assume an influx of refugees in 6 digits for Canada. Germany and Sweden got screwed by the rest of the EU.Quote:
Originally Posted by cantcatchacold
How do you integrate them here? You'll get a good percentage of religious hardliners too (they just take their chance for a better life and play victim although they were part of the cause). Because, there are so many legitimate refugees and no way of verifying who is who you'll have to accept the fact that you will end up with thousands of trouble makers as well.
So, what's the plan on dealing with them? Hold on to same idea of religious freedom, so they can repeat here what they are currently doing down there?
We could do the same as when your family immigrated and mine did when they came to canada. Make them welcome, safe and have a great opportunity for the future of their families like most of us Canadians enjoyQuote:
Originally Posted by Waftrudnir
That I agree with. It shouldn't be an election issue or a way for any party to gain votes. It's kinda sick the way the libs are using it in speeches. Campaign or not those politicians are just trying to gain votes instead of working on action. It should be a world issue to help people live in safety from having loved ones beheaded and daughters raped. I do respect the immigration minister Chris Alexander for stepping away from the campaign trail to work on these issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Unfortunately times have changed since our families came over and with todays failed multiculturalism and overly politically correct BS the immigrant dream of our great grandparents is long gone. I agree that we need to do more but opening the floodgates is not the answer and other countries capable of helping need to step up as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by cantcatchacold
True but id rather listen to an idiot be offended by everything then see a dead kid on the news. There's good and bad in all groups.
I agree , times have changed and drastically, yes we should do more but to what degree and danger to our economy and social well being of our present population.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
By letting in more migrants ,without screening , are we not adding to the unemployment of the thousands that we already have? are we not adding to the hardships already placed on our foodbanks who are constantly running short , where are we going to house all these migrants and again at what cost , and don't forget the extra burden this is going to force on our healthcare system as we have absolutely no idea of the health situation of these migrant people .
Times are already very hard and tough on many segments of our own country Canada.
Unfortunately Canada is not an UTOPIA as many believe it is many people here are hard working and find it extremely tough to make ends meet , Unfortunately it is WE THE TAXPAYER who are going to bear all the problems as this is where all the money has to come from to bring in and support all these migrants .
This sounds as if I am a hard nosed SOB, I am not , I am just looking at the reality of this situation, which is "Very Sad".
Canada takes in over 20,000 per year already, I know someone that used to work with refugees as a volunteer, they are already stretch helping the ones that arrive each year. There are requirements for places to stay, support, clothing, education, language help etc. and in the case that has got all the attention... they weren't coming from a country where there was fighting.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/canada.asp
A month ago ISIS kidnapped almost 200 kids and the world was almost silent.
http://www.ibtimes.com/isis-kidnaps-...ghters-2024533
two months ago 74 children killed by ISIS.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/07...including-not/
Tragic it is true, but where is the blame, they could have remained in Turkey and been safe, only the Uncle had applied and to me this looks like political grand standing. Items like above makes me want to put lead between ISIS's eyes and exploiting a tragedy a boot between some politicians and reporters legs!
The B.S. of not fighting ISIS is just that, the idea of a fool! A few bombs dropped by Canadian fighters on an area as large as England won't make a big difference... except to those the tanks or artillery are firing on... so not helping is nothing more than allowing ISIS to massacre and drive out more!
As brutal and heart wrenching as the photo of the 3 yr old is to anybody with a soul, put in perspective it actually pales to what is ongoing. They are beating people to death, burning them alive, lopping heads off in public. The way they are enslaving, abusing and torturing women somehow now pales in comparison? No, I don't think so. I have a wife and 2 daughters. The thought of having them taken away and used as sex slaves and traded like cattle enrages me. I can't understand how every man alive isn't enraged by this. Tens of thousands will meet far more brutal ends before it get's better. This is why we need to engage them militarily. They want to start a full blown world war which is why they publish their atrocities. They know they have support locally and history shows beating them at home is near impossible, mostly because a large part of the population actually agree with them about ethnic cleansing. They are like weeds. you can snip off the head but the roots are still there. The free and civilized world needs to mount a full scale war on this group. The best way is exactly what Harper is doing. Bomb them with strategic bombers and smart bombs. Maximum damage and very little threat to our troops. F-18 may be old tech but they can still take out multiple targets from 300kms away moving at the speed of sound. I sure as hell wouldn't want one looking for me in the dark. Trudeau and Mulcair have already stated they would not attack militarily. That mentality would have us all speaking German today if it was how we acted before the last world War. I am perfectly willing to pay an additional "WAR TAX" to fund military action against these savages. In these dangerous times and wounded economies do you really want idiots who can't take a principled stand or think you can spend your way out of debt in power? God help us.Quote:
Originally Posted by mosquito
Agreed Terry , but if the surrounding countries refuse to police their own patch ther is not much chance the west and like minded european countries will achieve their goal and bringing in tens of thousands of refugees may look good and may even be the right thing to do it will not stop the madness. What is needed is a full scale global effort to wipe out this cancer. Make no mistake that it will be a 100 year effort and to that I say good luck.
We are not simply fighting an enemy we are fighting a mindset that as you pointed out there are likely millions of people that support that mindset, to think otherwise is foolish.
Stolen from Facebook...
Attachment 30647
True,but,that takes time. Throwing the gates wide open as a knee-jerk reaction won't allow us to ensure Canada isn't being infiltrated by ISIS combatants under the immigration cover. We did that with Tamils and Pakistanis. The net result was thousands of immigrants sending millions of Canadian dollars to finance revolutions in their home countries. If people want to immigrate honestly,great. If they come here to merely to finance a war,ship them home on the next flight. If they act as agent provocateurs and terrorists against this country,send them to the gallows.Quote:
Originally Posted by cantcatchacold
There are now 2 million refugees on the run and it's estimated at least 2500 have drowned like the little boy in the last few months. The living are being raped, beheaded and massacred. We need to stop the people who are doing this evil. That means military action. If you don't stop them millions more will be forced to flee from their homelands because they don't have the right religion? Mulcair wants to leave these savages to continue their evil deeds and give those who manage to escape a blanket. I don't want that mentality running my country.
Good one. Now we know the answer to the question "How many newfies does it take to …"Quote:
Originally Posted by muskokaguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
X2
groups like Open Doors, Samaritans Purse etc have been doing to help the refugees but in this world of orphans in the Ukraine needing help because funding problems because of Russian, Haiti etc. and organizations like or even aligned with ISIL like Al Shabab,Boko Haram, Hamas, Hezzbullah and more scattered groups and individuals around the world..... not fighting them is a crime!
"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke
* Todd's addendum..... "but a GOOD man would not do nothing"
"God doesn't require us to succeed; he only requires that you try" Mother Teresa of Calcutta
* Todd's addendum..... "and would you want to stand before God at the judgment and be told you could have succeeded if you only but tried?"
You trumped over mother Teresa.Quote:
Originally Posted by mosquito
Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers that you do unto me
Jesus.
Its a very big question.
All one needs to do is look at the hoardes of fighting-aged men "fleeing" their home countries like rats. Floodgates are open now.... they posess zero will to fight the plague in their homeland, no will for anything more than setting up shop in a country that will give them a free life. Ten years down the road, a good majority of these men may be OUR PROBLEMS. Trojan horse syndrome, who knows if a lot of these cowards are ISIS sympathizers or planted to fool us.
The media focuses on the odd poor baby to pull at our heartstrings, when it should never have come to the point where you jam 15 people on a 3 man dinghy and lay your burdens on another's shores. multiply this nonsense by 1000 boats a day and you have a massive world and culture changing PROBLEM. Islam is inherently selfish and monocular, these people care not about western ideals and culture...all they really want is the benefits we have worked so hard for. They cannot and will not contribute, quite the opposite.
Losers like Trudeau's son( whose father got all this pathetic political correctness started) are poised to to degrade our countries internally and fight as hard as possible against solving the root of the problem( Islamists)
When does it stop???? We have far too many Middle Eastern immigrants here to begin with, and the news is already full of their"issues" with us.
Read a crime blotter in any major city, the names are quite disproportionately Arabic. I dare ya!!
If saying this makes a proud Canadian a "bigot" , so be it. There is a term for everything these days, clueless crybabies like Trudeau on every corner.
SIMPLE SOLUTION-Help to bomb out aggressor dictators and ISIS murderers in these hellholes, with the help of the people who actually live there. Eliminate them, and send all these opportunistic complainers back there to continue their lives. Don't bring them here so you can buy a few free votes. That is cultural suicide. They will never assimilate of contribute as a group....that is being proven day after day.
Europe is going to to be paying the price for this "generosity" for the rest of times :( They will be outnumbered in 20 years, in many cities they already are, have seen it on my trips there....and it is really sad.
I'm actually surprised at this whole migration issue; especially at number of able bodied men and women who can and be capable of a fighting force. My ancestry is Polish; my forefathers fought for Polish existence too many times, but in the end it resulted a nation formed and now part of NATO.
The amount of refugee; even if you had 10-15% of total as a fighting force, it is enough to have them trained, conditioned and unfortunately to shed blood. You were ousted of your home, do you want to secure your future's children? The Iraq Kurds are doing it.
I'm sorry but if it was me; I'd ask for training and a rifle. However at this current state of affairs with migrants; their welfare state of mind will send the wrong ideology to the future generation; run like a coward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poltrojan
The Kurds have communities and cities and families at stake and there to take care of spouses and children... the other minorities are probably alot more isolated and it would be hard if you had a wife and 2 kids you had to worry about.
The male unmarried and 16 to 25 crowd.... that makes me wonder:
have they been beaten so much by Sadam that they don't have the backbone?
they don't have a group to join (Kurds are organized atleast)?
do they identify with ISIS to some degree and don't want to fight it but don't want to fight with the radicals too?
are afraid to get dragged into the fighting on one side or the other they don't agree with either side?
are they afraid of what will happen to family in ISIS controlled areas if they fight against it and are found out?
do they have sisters, friends, family they want to get the heck out of there so they don't end up in the slave market?
.....
remember ISIS isn't 100 idiot guys in pickups and AKs it is 25,000+ fighters that are trained and equipped with artillery, tanks, APCs, pickups with heavy machine guns, suicide bombers and there have been chemical attacks and they have RPV's and may have jets or copters.... it would be hard to stand up against them even with training.
Weapons
http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-...eakdown-2014-7
Attacks
http://www.janes.com/article/54010/i...n-iraq-s-anbar
http://www.janes.com/article/53640/i...syria-s-aleppo
http://www.janes.com/article/53512/i...n-saudi-arabia
and their ally in Nigeria Boko Haram.
http://www.janes.com/article/53972/b...igeria-s-borno
cut the quote short; I know what you mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by mosquito
I'll give you another example. Look up the II Polish Corps.
- massive exodus of Polish civilians to concentration, labor and penal exile camps in Soviet lands.
- Nazi-Soviet pact broke, they were allowed to train to become a fighting forces after they starved and died out in camps.
- 2nd Polish Corps had one motive! to get their country/home back. Their famous battle is capture of Monte Casino especially against 3rd battalion of the German 2nd Parachute Regiment (elite forces)
a civilian who was exiled from his home became one of the strongest fighting battalion/corps with one goal in mind. to make them Nazi Germany pay for starting the World War II.
The same mindset should be existing in these refugees. but the days of backbone is GONE!! So what if the ISIS has the weapons and technology; the Nazi Germany of World War II were considered the Elite Axis forces to fight with! My opinion, YOU WANT YOUR HOME BACK? FIGHT FOR IT!
You want your freedom? "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" Thomas Jefferson... no truer quote exists.
X 3. Hear, Hear!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
so why is it that so many seem to get it, but our mass media prefers to broadcast their ideologically tainted views over and over again. we all know that "propaganda" works by repeating a message over and over again, no real facts are needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by cleveland
the part that I find interesting that all over the western world media appears to be left-wing motivated
It reminds of words spoken by very infamous (short term successful,long term not so much) NAZI Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebels and to para phrase "If you tell the same lies over and over again,it becomes truth." Never before in modern history has a leftist media made such an extraordinary mass attempt to alter an election outcome by feeding BS to a relatively unsophisticated electorate who seem completely incapable of discerning common sense fact from fiction. It looks like they've taken a page or two out of Herr Goebels handbook.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waftrudnir
well, I tried to keep the historic example out of it. matter of fact has and will work 100% as long as you have sufficient media coverage.
something else that really works: the pyramid scheme, currently also known as "Ontario old age security"
didn't mean to distract from the rather serious topic:
I think media plays a huge role (as so often) and it will drive this one, too.
we'll end up with a huge amount of refugees (not immigrants; i.e. individuals that we can accept or refuse). we won't be prepared to deal with the numbers.
we'll find that a high percentage will not only be welfare migrants, but have radical believes. and we know that these will find the perfect breeding grounds in certain communities in our major cities.
not only are we not prepared, we refuse to get prepared even to talk about the issue.
you can blame someone to be a fool for repeating issues, but what do you call someone being so oblivious to disregard all warning signs on top of that
Well said !! I can't even watch these updates on the news about this. it makes me furious to see the story the media is spinning on this. Not much is being said about the ones abusing police and making a mess of the paths they are taking to get to their welfare states. Not one good report yet on how they are simply bypassing other safe Muslim countries that have better economies due to oil( yet no welfare and free housing).Quote:
Originally Posted by Waftrudnir
Why are they flocking to Germany????? And France??? Because those countries have already proven they have no backbone and will give the freeloader anything they want, including catering to their wacky and dangerous Islamic "needs" by religion or acts of law.
I am all for a few really threatened mothers and kids getting housed in safe countries, but this is just ********ing ridiculous. The western world is sowing the seeds for it's own demise.....and all we do is sit by and argue with each other about how bad we are. Majority of these humans are not "refugees" they are opportunistic immigrants that have no place in where they are going.....and will never fit in. Mix 10-20 % bad guys into the million or so that will be in Europe, and you have a ticking time bomb. Europe is already being drowned by their mass presence over the last 25 years. Sad to say...but it's the truth.
Round them up at the borders, build them temporary camps, no matter what scale...train them to fight(AND KILL) the pieces of garbage who are representing their religion, and instill a sense of humanity into them.
Running and mooching will only make them disliked wherever they "settle". It's not our problem to pay for the rest of our lives. Bomb the piss out of anything that represents radical Islam and involve the local population to help wipe out/clean up the leftovers.. Only then will this end.
Attachment 30676
Saw this today
While history has shown some of the mistakes made in our treatment of certain peoples and their religion, I fail to see the connection you are trying to make? I'm pretty sure the Jews weren't out there lopping the heads off innocent people?Quote:
Originally Posted by cantcatchacold
Just one group fleeing the death by another is the connection I saw
This analogy I'll agree with. Should we do much more to give these folks safe haven? Absolutely! We need to make damn sure they're not enemy combatants in flight. General Hillier says we can "vett" them all easily and quickly. He's the man that should know,so,let's get it done.Quote:
Originally Posted by cantcatchacold
One thing the media, people on FB etc overlook is.
These aren't the times gone by when other groups have fled countries be it Cipriots and Greece, "boatpeople" and so many others.
When we (and other countries) took in refugee's with open arms. I don't think anyone had to consider the possibility that they could be insurgents/radicals, etc.
I do think they can be vetted fairly quickly. However, let's not forget that everyone is also ripping Harper over all those counter measures and invasions of privacy.
None of the above is meant as an excuse or condoning or anything. Simply, it is what it is.
Harper knows what he is doing and did mention in few sources; that he is not willing to risk security measure's in Canada just to let in thousands of refugees without screening. I couldn't care less what NDP and Liberals are saying about it. SECURITY of our Canadian should not be jeopardized by the few. We already had home-grown terrorists enough to justify the action screening the refugees, especially coming in from war-torn country or fanatical-radicalized islamist.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
we don't need another Cpl. Nathan Cirillo incident or any civilian measures.
If you open the floodgates without screening, guaranteed the enemy will use this to get in. What will JT or Mulcair say in 3 years if a radical blows up a subway stop in downtown Toronto? OOOps, Harper was right? Won't help the kids who will have their parents shredded by a radical.
all they would cry about is more gun control and guess who's fault it was in the first place, cause he got rid of the registry ...Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
facts have no place in today's politics (well not that there was much of truth in politics at any given time at any given place).
I always thought that the more information people have, the better their decisions will be. unfortunately, it appears that people are more superficial than they have ever been, because they think bad choices have no impact. they will be mistaken with this one. opening the floodgates will have irrevocable consequences!
Oh you mean bomb Iraq again ?Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Just how we bombed them multiple times since the 90s.
FYI this is a result of Mr. Bush's escapades in that region, had they kept Saddam in power this massive mess would never have occured in the first place.
So that's a great idea !
Let's go to war 4th time's the charm ;-)
and the winner of the stupidest post in the least informed post category of this thread is.... Afraz! Winner also for the let them die and stick our heads up our a**es category. I am sure there were some that made the same comments about fighting Germany a second time but it shows no recognition of the realities and just a simplification to avoid thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Afraz
If anyone is to blame for the creation of ISIL is it Turkey and Qatar for their funding of the anti-Shia / Anti-Bassara groups, then Obama for an early withdrawal and the destabilization of Libya that lead to the "Arab Spring" and Muslim Brotherhood summer.
As for Sadam, so you preferred leaving a mass murderer in power? He kept the country stable because he repeatedly used violence and even chemical weapons against Kurds and Shi'ite Muslims. There were tons of mustard and sarin chemical weapons found in Iraq but not the types or quantities that Bush stated, however I think given time and the increased improvements of the Al Hussein missiles (Scud) we would have had a much larger issue. Sort of like the Yemen ballistic missiles being fired into Saudi Arabia.... oh and are you going to blame Bush for that too?
Yemeni ballistic missile attacks continue against Saudi Arabia
http://www.janes.com/article/53865/y...t-saudi-arabia