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What a joke.. makes me want to become a libertarian... tried numerous times to renew online as i JUST discovered it expired.. won't accept the birthdate format I enter. Question: why do we need to be put through this indignity? Wish I lived in Texas right now.
Still going to hunt. They never check PAL. I bow hunt so won't be needing amo and got enough of that to overthrow this govt anyhow...
LOL
I love the part that requires your spouse to sign. Like she needs to give me permission to own guns????
I think if she fealt I was threat she would have reported me years ago & not wait untill she was asked the question on the re-newal form.
My record is so clean it sparkles. Not even a parking ticket & yet I have to og through all the BS when I renew.
They actually make it painful becasue they want you to give it up & take up golfing instead.
Dont let them win. Use the paper applocation...
:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splaker
So since it has expired you are no longer a legal gun owner...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Its not that you need her permission, its that she should know that you own (or intend to acquire) firearms. One of the few bits of information on the form that I think is worthwhile.Quote:
Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter
It's just a reminder of the that the society we live in has a bunch of lowlifes that probably shouldn't be allowed to own firearms, but until they do something illegal, there is nothing to stop them. At least we can let their spouses know they are armed.
Early on, my wife asked if I'd lose my guns if she didn't sign it. I said no, I'd just changed the marital status to "single".:):):)
The system won't allow you to renew an expired PAL. You'll have to apply for a new one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Splaker
Bow hunting has nothing to do with your PAL. Nor does the amount of ammunition you have stashed away. I'm not sure why that's relevant. As for your comment about overthrowing the government, make sure you don't mention that on your PAL application.
OR ammunition acquisition !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brampton Mike
My first wife was opposed to firearms, I had to get rid of my guns and sneak out to hunt. Finally I made a smart move and changed my marital status. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
I won't state that the process that one has to endure in order to get a PAL or RPAL isn't fraught with useless bureaucracy, however with some reading, questions and focus it is manageable. Once you get thru it, it is a lot better than having to stand in Gander Mountain, Bass Pro or any other US firearms retailer and wait for hours or perhaps have to return days later to buy a rifle.
Remember, the advantage is that once you have a PAL in hand it is good anywhere in Canada. One would hope that there are more than just a few 'winkies' that are denied a PAL during the RCMP screening process.
Splaker, I'm really not sure why you would mention this on a public forum? While the system may be somewhat cumbersome, I think most gun owners welcome the requirement of licensing? I'm not trying to criticize you, but would suggest you get your ducks in line and make every possible effort to re-new immediately? No good can come out of it otherwise?
If you change your birthday input,it should take it if you enter as yyyy-mm-dd and if it won't,call them. Trust me,the day you take a firearm into the field without a PAL in your wallet will be the day you're checked by the Police instead of a CO. Murphy's Law. An "unlawful possession" charge will screw you up for a long time,so,don't let that happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Splaker
Sorry but have to disagree with you......it would be a real pain, if you were to go through a divorce and what was once a peaceful marriage now is not. And all it takes is one phone call from that wife and your guns are gone your priveldges are gone etc......even tho you did nothing wrong, all they have to do is cry wolf and your screwed regardless. I dont know from experience personally but i have heard fo others that say its a nightmare. Alot can be thrown out the window and lost by a spiteful spouse. To me if you took the proper courses, you have a clean record and have went thru all the channels to uphold a firearms license then why should others have to vouch for you on your application...until you screw up, no one should get the right to determine that fate. No where on the application to I see a spot where they have to pay any fees or provide a picture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
As stated above if it's expired I don't think you can do it online now? I'm sure there is a grace period before you have to redo everything. I'm sure hundreds of firearm owners forget each year soma grace period must be there,
If you do hunt with a firearm and its expired you are committing a crime I'm sure you know that and won't ;). No different then driving with an expired drivers license. Is it worth the risk? No. And as others have said the day you do it is the day you get busted. Once you renew. Maybe call and ask if you can get a temporary license till the card comes in?
And from what I have read the wait times are months for getting a renewal now. I believe mine took 2 months. While my brothers took 3. With hunting seasons opening people have been doing their courses and sending their papers in for their license back logging the system even more.
Talking to a gun smith yesterday. He said and proved to me that a person with a valid POL can now purchase a rifle as they are now considered a PAL. As long as you didn't allow your POL expire. As of September 2 2015.
There has never been such a grace period. Bill C-42 is supposed to bring us that, but I'm not sure that's been implemented yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattones
Do don't have to be hunting with a firearm to be committing and offence. Simple ownership without a license (or an expired one) makes you a criminal.Quote:
If you do hunt with a firearm and its expired you are committing a crime I'm sure you know that and won't ;).
I don't believe POLs have been around for a long time - many years. When the POLs went out, you had to challenge the exam or do the firearms course to convert it to a PAL.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris lavoie
Not sure how long your PAL has been expired, but you may also want to read that the passing of C-42 "The Common Sense Firearms Act" brought in changes to the legislation. There is now a 6 month grace period following the expiration of your PAL. This ensures that you don't become a criminal overnight for simply forgetting to renew.
There are still many people with a POL. Bill C-42 addresses that. Effective September 2, POL's are eliminated and existing ones are converted to PAL.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
The challenge here is determining the coming into force date for this new grace period. With any luck, it's already in place but I haven't been able to find any reliable information about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGearyFTE
http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/hoc/Bi...2_4/C-42_4.PDFQuote:
14. Subsection 64(1.1) of the Act is replacedby the following:
(1.1) Despite subsection (1), if a licence for
firearms is not renewed before it expires, the
licence is extended for a period of six months
beginning on the day on which it would have
expired under that subsection.
(1.2) The holder of a licence that is extended
under subsection (1.1) must not, until the
renewal of their licence, use their firearms or
acquire any firearms or ammunition.
(1.3) The extension of a licence under
subsection (1.1) does not result in the extension
of any authorization to carry or authorization to
transport beyond the day on which the licence
would have expired under subsection (1).
(1.4) During the extension period, the following
authorizations must not be issued to the
holder of the licence:
(a) an authorization to carry; and
(b) an authorization to transport, unless it is
issued
(i) for a reason referred to in subparagraph
19(1)(b)(i) or (ii), or
(ii) because the holder wishes to transport
a firearm for disposal through sale or
exportation
Heard a guy who's wife was adamant NO GUNS IN THE HOUSE.. the guy got his PAL with a condition that no guns were to be stored at his premises...Quote:
Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Let's make sure we all agree on a very important point.
No criminal gives a crap about PAL renewal.
just helped my 76 r old father in law renew is POL lisence and from what I gathered he will now be grandfathered into a PAL lisence....is POL was not expired but he was still forced to go thru the complete new applicant process...with the picture...60 dollar fee.....and fill out a several page application......he has had a POL since being a teen (so been around a while)
Quote:
Originally Posted by awndray
This is my buddy. His wife is Hindu and they are both Muslim. His restrictions box on PAL states "no storage of firearms in domestic residence". He has to borow mine and store his goose gun with me. Bullsyht.
Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
I would be buying a gun safe....and clearing out the other side of the bed instead!!!
It's too bad more people didn't have the discussion with a potential mate BEFORE they decided to get together. I guess,in a lot of cases,people decided to get into hunting/target shooting/firearms ownership after the fact which could,for some folks,be a real deal breaker. We all know that no matter how much logic and common sense we use with our mates,we might as well pee into the wind,especially, if it becomes a "control" issue,blowing out of proportion and defying all logic.
Yep!! Anyone with a valid POL can now buy a rifle with it. When you renew your POL, you will automatically get a PAL.
Just my opinion but you should know when your PAL expires and be on top of renewing it. There really is no excuse to let it expire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Before we got to the point of discussing marriage, I took her out bird hunting a few times, she got her hunting licence and FAC. Pretty hard for her to say she doesn't feel comfortable around guns. Once the kids came around, she doesn't hunt anymore, her FAC turned into a POL and now a PAL with the recent legislation,
POL has been available since 1994.Quote:
Originally Posted by twostroke
Stu.
POLs have only been around since the 90s. Prior to that was the FAC system
Quote:
Originally Posted by twostroke
Which so many have forgotten was for the acquisition only. And then ownership of firearms was criminalized with the POL and PAL.Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
The FAC was a joke, if you had no criminal record you could get one for I think $15 bucks, you didn't have to have any firearms courses just no record, and you were free to buy any long gun that wasn't restricted, they never kept track of the people that got an FAC , only the ones who were denied one....Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
Why was that a joke?Quote:
Originally Posted by bdog
FAC's were far from a "joke". That was the first step of a gradual and relentless advance to the POL, PAL and the arbitrary unnecessary re-classification of many former unrestricted fireams.Quote:
Originally Posted by bdog
That's the spirit!
50.00 in 1986. You still had to pass a criminal check. As for the fact that hunter safety wasn't required, well it was even normal to take a 22 to school in rural areas so that you could go hunting after class.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdog
I had to take an examination to get my FAC. I remember it wasn't easy, and a course was needed to get you up to speed with relevant issues. Then there was the criminal check.
I don't think it was a simple, easy process - not the one I went through.
By the way, I never renewed my FAC (actually worked in another country for like 12 years!). I've been thinking of getting my PAL. Is it as simple as applying for one, and my FAC is considered as proof of competency?
Didn't need a passing of a course for FAC. Just a criminal records check!! Had to pass a course for a pal though.
No, you will be required to take the Canadian Firearms Safety Course now.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
I never heard of having to take a course for the old FAC? If I remember correctly, a person filled out the paper work and submitted it to a firearms officer at their local police service, then awaited approval? Not that any of that matters now, just can't recall having to write a test or take any course?Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
A course was required in the late 80s early - mid 90s, you could challenge the exam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
Rick Iles, if he took the course and passed the exam, then the CFC has a record of it, and yes it's indeed valid. As a matter of fact, if it was the one for the FAC, then he actually can apply for his RPAL, as pistols were covered in the course as well.
He said his FAC has been expired for 12 years ! He will have to prove he has completed and passed the CFSC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
I challenged the exam in 1994 ( which covered pistol). I let my FAC lapse, and when I went to apply for my PAL. The CFC in Mirimichi told me that they had my exam on file, and I didn't need to take the CFSC. That was in 2009. I was also told at the time, that because my exam covered pistol, I could in fact apply for my RPAL.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
I definitely wrote a test with my dad and uncle. It would have been late 80's or early 90's for sure. I still have my card, filed away (haven't checked it). We had to write the test to get our FAC. We went to an instructor who taught us the requirements, and then wrote a test. I was young at the time in my teenage years. We apparently needed the FAC to be able to possess firearms. Before that you just had to be over 18 years old to be able to buy a gun. But then they changed it to say you needed an FAC to be able to even hold a gun. That's what I remember, it was about 25 years ago.
I called in about renewal probably 5 years ago. The lady on the phone said she had a record of my course on file.
Back then she said I could just apply and get the new certificate (not sure if it was the POL at the time??).
I'm just checking whether anything has changed, and if I could still get my PAL with the course I took for my FAC.
What does RPAL stand for? Does the R stand for restricted?
Bluebulldog is correct. My brother was in the same situation last year. He provided the necessary proof that he took the course in the mid 90's. He now has his RPAL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
If there was a course in the 80's and 90's it was province specific and must have been a Hunter's safety course. There was no course in NB, NS or PEI for the FAC. Infact back then you could apply 3 months before your 16th birthday I received mine in 1985 Oct 11 and Dad took me to Canadian Tire to purchase my 20 gauge.
The FAC disappeared in 1995 and the PAL was released.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple
Federal actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
- In 1991, Bill C-17 was introduced, coming into force between 1992 and 1994. It required FAC applicants to pass a safety course in addition to a thorough background check, and to wait a minimum of 28 days after applying before an FAC could be issued. It also created new Criminal Code offences, new definitions for prohibited and restricted weapons, and new regulations for firearms dealers. It increased penalties for firearm-related crimes. It clearly outlined regulations for firearms storage, handling and transportation.[8]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Canada
It was definitely not a hunter course. I already had my hunting license, which required me to go through 6 weeks of training at a club, plus a written and practical test. I got that at the age of 16. My dad purchased my first shot gun that year, would have been 88 or 89, without a FAC. I was able to possess the gun, but not purchase it. But then they changed the law and said you needed an FAC to possess a firearm. In the pursuit of the FAC, we were also required to do a special gun safety course. I remember it containing all the new rules about safe gun storage, ammunition storage, etc. That's the same year people stopped storing their shotguns in their closets, and had to buy lockable safes that met the federal requirement, ammunition stored and locked separately from firearms, etc.
The ministry has a record of my test, that I've already confirmed. If you did the course, they should have a record of it. I didn't have to show them anything other than provide my name and birth date.
So came into force between 1992 and 1994. Which explains why most people would not have done a course it still didn't exist in NB in 1991 - 1993. The FAC died and became the PAL in 1995. I forgot to renew my FAC before it expired in 1995 and had to take the course if I had renewed it on time I would not have had to do the course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
In 1985 you could get the FAC and purchase a firearm. I applied 3 months before my birthday and received the FAC in the mail on Friday Oct 11 1985 My Birthday. Dad took me to Canadian Tire and I purchased a Bakhil 20 gauge single shot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
That was also back when FACs were just done at the local police station. Ah...the good old days...LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
We moved in the past 7 months and this is why I didn't get the renewal notice... it's something you'd forget to update (address for PAL)... we all live very busy lives, I'm sure, and some days I can't remember what I ate for breakfast!
In all the years I've hunted no one ever asked me for a card... it's buried somewhere where I keep my tags. I haven't bought amp in over 2 years and a gun in 4..
ANyhow will try to call them when I get chance
HAve to go plan the revolution now
Quote:
Originally Posted by 35wailin
Right on, only in our case it was chuck hunting. First time I set her up with the .243 she nailed a chuck at about 150 yards. Bird hunting followed, I show her how to identify grouse sitting in trees. I said they look like the old thin neck bowling pins sitting on a branch. She got so good at it, when I sent her into tree stands to flush them out to me. I seldom got to hear the rapid flutter of feather, the only noise that greeted by ears was bang. She went from FAC to POL and couple years back did the course and got her PAL. Same situation with the kids, but as they have grown up, she has been able to get out for a few bird hunts.
You don't stop hunting because you get old. You get old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
Yes, the good old days! I rec'd my first FAC in 1979. No test or exam that I recall?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Never once was there a course for an FAC. You had an extensive criminal records check. The only course was the hunters safety course I took in the mid 70's. Then there was a course for a Pal. Pal's came out in early 2000's.
Chris, you're wrong. I took a course for my FAC . I took another course about 2 years earlier for my hunters safety to get my hunting license. Read page 5, you will see from 1992 to 1994 it was Federal Law to take a course to receive the FAC. I took it in that timeframe. It was a course for no other purpose then to get my FAC. I was already hunting for many years before that course.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris lavoie
Chris see above - it was law from 1992 to 1994 - you had to take a pass a safety sourse to get your FAC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
One of the conditions of a(r) PAL is to inform the CFO of an address change..Quote:
Originally Posted by Splaker
Actually Mark, it came into force between 1992 and 1994...it was universal until the PAL license came in in the late 90s.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
I renewed mine last month, and while i agree that most of this is nonsense, i did it online, took 3 weeks and i had my renewal, was pretty easy over all, they also didnt seem to care that the picture wasn't very clear.
Did you get a notice that you needed to renew? If so, when did you get it as far as when your expiry date was?Quote:
Originally Posted by grog
Thanks
I didn't follow it (obviously). So are you saying that from 1992 to late 90's, we would have had to take the course to get the FAC? Did they keep the course when they changed to the PAL?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Got it sorted out.. completely new application required.. it'll take 30 to 45 days... so Nov. But I pretty much only bow hunt now and so I'm good to go... anything under 500 F/S does not require a PAL
Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
I know but a lot has happened in our lives, including a new house and a new baby, our first.. so PAL was not top of my mind
There's nothing illegal about storing a firearm in a closet, as long as it's trigger locked. Also nothing illegal about storing ammo unlocked on a shelf, or in your sock drawer for that matter. It just has to be stored separately from the firearm. You can also store firearms and ammo together, but that's where the safe is necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
Precisely.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
Yes you're right about the trigger locks, my dad just went on the instructor's advice and put the guns in a purpose built safe. I'm not sure about the ammo thing though. At the time we got our FAC, I remember my dad acted quickly on the course instructer's advice and not only built the gun safe, but also stored the ammo sepearately and also locked. Maybe they changed the storage requirements over the years, but I googled it a minute ago and found this link:Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum.../t-395155.html
In it some guys say it's okay to store on a shelf, but others say it's not, and others even say they know of people who were charged for not safely storing ammo. I've copied below one of the responses, and his response is what I remember from the course we took 25 years ago (or so, can't remember everything).
angryeyebrows
10-16-2009, 12:21 PM
As far as storage goes, to be legal and in compliance with the info on the Department of justice's page (SOR/98-209), all you have to do is the following:
If the firearm is non restricted
- Unloaded
- Trigger Locked or Bolt removed OR
- Stored in Container or Room that cannot readily be broken into
If restricted
- Unloaded
- Trigger Locked or Bolt removed AND
- Stored in Container or Room that cannot readily be broken into
The ONLY way to get around not trigger locking the restricted firearms is to store them in a vault, safe or room SPECIFICALLY constructed for storing said firearms. The Stack On type cabinets won't cut it.
Ammo can be stored in the same Container or Room with the firearm OR in any other location that is not readily accessible if someone were to get a hold of a firearm.
Those are the Laws. I've printed them out and have them posted on the inside of the locker my firearms are in.
Some Provinces have additional rules and regulations so you have to be sure you know what's specific to you.
Straight from the RCMP website about storage:Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/f...posage-eng.htm
It basically says for lawful storage of non-restricted firearms, attach a secure locking device, such as a trigger lock or cable lock (or remove the bolt) so the firearms cannot be fired; or lock the firearms in a cabinet, container or room that is difficult to break into.
I understand completely.. it's not top of your priority list. . Was just playing devils advocateQuote:
Originally Posted by Splaker
Have you heard of ian Thompson? Well his court case judge said that it's okay to store ammo on a shelf..Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
At least a month, more like two i think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregger17
I received a notice that my RPAY was coming up for renewal a few weeks back. I went online to renew and encountered a problem. One of the first questions was about the information for a significant other. I recently lost my wife, we would have celebrated 39 years just the other day, so in effect, I have no significant other. The next question was about a significant other during the past 2 years, this is where it got complicated. Now I can't be the first to be in this situation, there was no provision for the loss of a loved one. Yes, I had a significant other, no I can't provide contact information. I called the CFO's office, the rep went all through the forms and was unable to find any way to complete the form either. In the end, she stayed on the phone with me, I filled out what I could, and when completed and paid, it generated a reference number. At that point she went into the file and added a note.
Hopefully everything is straightened out and there will be no issues with my renewal.
I had an issue before where they asked if you had lost your job in the past 2 years, but no place to put that I was no re-employed again. I wrote a letter that I include with my PAL saying that I was only unemployed for a total of 1 day, I was laid off on a Thursday and then started a new job on the Monday. They still called me asking why I was laid off. So I probably wouldn't worry about it, they might call just explain to them.
Sorry for your loss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulR