Printable View
Did anyone catch the Westminster Sporting dog group, the show breeders have managed to come up with an abomination of a Labrador. It that dog is representative of what an ideal Lab should be it spells ruin for that line of the breed. The thing was huge, fat and plodded around the stage like a pot bellied pig. Ten minutes in the field and the thing would have a coronary.
LOL! Not my idea of a lab. Mine is an eating machine & if she had it her way she would look like that too... :)
It's been like that for many years unfortunately and would take many generations to undue if at all possible. Personally I consider it two completely separate breeds. The couch lab and the working lab.
not to the level I saw last night.
After events like the GSD fiasco at the Kennel Club back in March, you can see why these show and clubs are becoming redundant and memberships are dwindling.
I did a show kennel tour about 7 or 8 years ago of five kennels and couldn't believe the size of these monster labs. The second year Kemptville Ontario had a dog show at the municipal centre 2007 or 2008 I attended. All the lab show people were going bananas over the lab that had won. It had to have weighed at least 100 lbs with the shortest, straightest front and rear legs I had ever seen on a lab. Overweight, no angles, too big, head looked like a Rottweiler and no personality at all. Very sad looking specimen and it was a champion .Quote:
Originally Posted by bardern
exactly what I saw last night. Irony is that my vet took a photo of my MBL to send in to his alma mater as to what the ideal hunt lab looks like and Guage looks nothing like the beast you just described.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
My wife shows American cockers and tries to keep her breedings in the standard, but when you look at the competition the dogs are all over the place. Besides the breeders changing them up the judges are allowing these dogs to become chmpions by awarding them the wins.
As far as hunting ability these cockers are show dogs and that's it no interest in birds or other animals had a cotton tail rabbit in the yard and 3 cockers ran past it in the middle of the mowed lawn the rabbit sat still and the dogs played running within a foot of it with no interest until the rabbit decided it was time to leave 1 gave a bit of chase then gave up after only ten feet.
I am glad my GSP is hunting dog and working with her is grate
LOL Even my JRT would have had that rabbit in a second. :)
Sharon a JRT worth its salt would have had that rabbit in one half second and would be looking for the next dozen lol. I am sure yours is no different.
So glad the Brittanys are dual champions. The same dog that can win in the show ring in the morning can be winning a hunt trial in the afternoon.
Unfortunately it's just a matter of time before your breed of choice will someday succumb to the show breeder.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_t1012001
It's a function of the popularity of the breed. Labs are enormously popular as pets and there is a very large number of breeders who have no interest in hunting. Their subjective interpretation of the standard slowly changes and the breed follows. Then breed standards themselves are changed to reflect the dogs that are winning. In Springers, for example, the bench standard has been changed twice since 1947 (I think), which was the last time there was a dual champion, and there is noticeable divergence between bench and field dogs.
I just finished reading The Cocker Spaniel, by Ella Moffit, published in 1938 and referring to what we now know as the American Cocker. It's an interesting book in that it was published at a time when some American Cocker enthusiasts were mounting a (doomed) effort to restore the breed as a sporting dog. You can see how things got to be the way they were, and why efforts to bring back the American Cocker as a field dog failed.
Pretty sure my DD is safe...thank God
Big advantage to many of those "obscure" versatile breeds.Quote:
Originally Posted by dilly
Couple years ago a German Wirehair won best sporting (2013) and I just shuddered. It can be a curse.Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
Definitely a curse.
Just pray that Disney doesn't feature it in one of their movies....Quote:
Originally Posted by dilly
Any working dog that wins consistently in field /working trials then i would say you should have a conformation that should be used in those pretty beauty contests.
Signs that maybe the times are changing: in the UK, the Kennel Club has just rewritten the rules for showing GSDs because they felt the breed club was taking too long to address the well-known problems with GSDs in shows....
http://www.bestinshowdaily.com/gsds-...form=hootsuite
That link includes a video of GSD winners at Crufts, which will have you shaking your head.
It'd be nice to see similar action taken with other breed clubs of problem breeds. Labs are one.
Wow. That's good news.
( Another breed ruined by popularity is the Jack Russell Terrier. Sees often in movies etc and bought by many. Not a "first time dog " so many end up in shelters. The breed club has now changed the look/names to Russell Terrier and Parson Russell Terrier. )
And in the same vein, this is what you can be facing if you don't address your problems:
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-envi...form=hootsuite
In short: researchers at UC Davis have suggested the English Bulldog does not have enough genetic diversity to fix its various breed-standard-related health issues without outcrossing with other breeds.
Both these reports are from the UK, where there's a high level of consciousness of these kinds of problems. On the other hand, that has produced a high number of nitwits who think all pedigreed dogs face the same issues and all breeders are unethical greedheads....
good info Welsh. After reading the steps the British Kennel Club is taking to try and rectify the deformities now seen in many breeds it is encouraging. For many breeds it looks like it is too late without interjecting genetics from similar dog breeds.
It really borders on inhumane practices to breed British Bulldogs in Britain given the litany of genetic issues now inherent in the breed. It is heart wrenching to see the difficulties those dogs now face.
Good for the British (and Germans) - they know/love their sporting/working dogs like no other. I doubt sporting/working standards will change back to intended standard without their involvement.
Well said Roper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roper
The German breed club that manages the DD will never let the breed be ruined. Some DD's may get ruined but not the breed. I like the Brittany thinking. My dog's mother is a DC. Field and show finished champion.Quote:
Originally Posted by dilly
Unfortunately we all know of purebred working bloodlines kennels that have questionable looking specimens that resemble somewhat the breed. I was at a English Springer Spaniel field trial and really thought the one dog participating was an English Setter. I had to ask one of the other participants why a setter was participating. He laughed and said that it was indeed an English Springer Spaniel with a big grin on his face. Don't get me wrong i believe many breeds need improvement and genetic diversity can be a huge benefit.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
On the topic of Westminster ... every time a sporting breed wins it (most recently a GSP) we see a lot of fretting about how the new popularity of the breed is going to ruin the breed, send thousands of dogs to shelters, etc., etc.
Turns out, not. Hal Herzog got his mitts on the AKC's registration data from 1927 - 2005 and crunched the numbers. Winning Westminster had no noticeable effect on the popularity of a breed, as measured by the number of puppies registered annually.
What does have an effect is movies, TV, what breed the President chooses, and so on.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ns-westminster
shows are not so much popularity of the breed but a modification to an interpretation of the breed standard that makes for a fat lab.
For sure Welsh I doubt many folks outside of dog show world watch it anyway, not much to see here with athletic humans trotting alongside pampered pups lol.
I think Sharon mentioned Frasier screwing up JRT's. Good case it point.
Yup, two separate issues. But since we had a Westminster thread going I thought I'd mention it here. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bardern
Its not the registered numbers that worried me, it's the people doing backyard breeding. After the GSP was announced as the winner, there was a surge in the amount of people stating they were breeding their dogs (b/c temperment/looks/etc) and selling them cheap in a few different groups I'm in, many are unregistered.
I think a lot of these were the ones ending up in shelters etc because the dogs were being give out to just anyone IMO, I'm basing this on my interactions with a few breeders and how they choose who gets one of their dogs. I don't know if this is the same for every breeder, but the ones local to me always state that they will take a dog back if the rehoming doesn't work out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
Registration papers don't mean a single thing. Irresponsible breeders of any kind and irresponsible purchasers contribute to the issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini898
If you think a Registered dog means it won't have health issues or is a super dog than your just as irresponsible. Papers can be faked. There's lots of people buying selling and breeding Registered dogs that are garbage, and they know they are doing it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Responsible breeders register their dogs with a breed club providing proof to the purchaser of all health clearances known to that particular breed with a written guarantee. Responsible breeders are continuously seeking/continued education on how to better the breed for the future of the breed. The list goes on what a responsible breeder is or should be.
Have to agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
Papers and pedigree mean everything in the world of competitive retrievers. Health testing is done and results are clear.
Stringent testing insures a healthy dog at least as it relates to hips/eyes/elbows,EIC,CNM which are pretty much standard in the world of retrievers.
Backyard breeders have no control over the above and in most cases do not test for any of them. We have had numerous discussions on here about breeders who do not provide the above folded into a 26 month gurantee. I have checked several of the web sites and did not find any evidence of those tests.
There is no excuse for not staying current with health tests.
I will add that in this day and age with the internet there is no excuse for "not" finding a well bred dog from a reputable breeder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 69firebird
I agree with the irresponsible purchasers, people who have not completed enough research on the breed do contribute to issues but reputable breeders typically (IMO) help to limit one of their dogs going into the wrong hands.
With regards to health, issues can arise regardless of whether the dog is registered - I agree but reputable breeders will have stringent health tests conducted, helping to limit the amount of problems within their lines.