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Hey guys. Our breeder has just informed us that the litter has been born and will be ready to go start of November. My wife and I have never had a dog but are both young and energetic. Our goal is to have a family dog that is good around children as we are looking to start a family. I would also like to train the dog for waterfowl and maybe blood tracking. I know there are more capable breeds but both love the gsp. Any books, tips, food for thought to help us out? Thanks!
Same principles to raise healthy well adjusted children holds true for your dog. Equal balance of discipline and freedom will be guiding principles. Consistency will be needed which will be hard at times. Main thing if you feel your dog is being bad its most likely your not stimulating or exercising them enough. Have fun and do keep in mind that all though the "book" says so doesn't mean it will go exactly as planned. As with children some develop faster than others but they'll all finish more or less the same at the end.
first dog , you want a good retriever that is also trustworthy with children....... get a labQuote:
Originally Posted by Eddy22
( I've had 2 GSPs.)
As long as your committed to working your dog practically everyday, your good to go.
Use your head ,not your heart.
NAVHDA is a place to start. But I'm with Sharon, GSP is pretty high drive especially when thinking about starting a family. Time will be an issue.
Hey Eddy,
I was in the exact same place as you a few years ago. I bought a GSP and my son was born months later. Sharon and Camo are correct in saying they are high energy, but you should be fine as long as you ensure to commit and set some time aside for your pup (ie get up ridiculously early in the morning to give the dog plenty of exercise). Tessa is great with my son ... Couldn't have asked for a better family dog (have owned an English setter and English pointers in the past). Time management my friend ... You should be fine.
Congratulations on your new upcoming gsp pup, you have bought a very capable versatile hunting dog that can retrieve from land and water. Yes they can blood track as well. Lots of info on training to blood track online. To get it to start retrieving, you start by playing a fetching game with a stuffed animal toy and advance from there. If it comes from a breeder breeding dogs from a versitile blood lines, it should show a lot of natural ability and be easy to train and be more laid back. If it comes from American field trial bloodline, it will be more energetic, as others have said a good morning run well help keep the pup calm douring the day. Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions about the breed or want to talk about gsp's I love them.
Agree ...get a lab.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
If you are indeed a waterfowler then I would advise re thinking your choice.
Breed discussions aside....Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy22
Avail yourself of a friend with young children and make sure the puppy meets them and enjoys the meeting. I'm sure you have probably read that 8 - 12 weeks is a critical period for introducing a pup to new experiences. Stable dogs that are good with kids, etc., come from a solid foundation of positive puppy experiences, including experience with excitable, miniature humans.
I think that's the single most important thing you can do, given your family plans. Stable, patient dogs are made by stable, patient trainers.
Thanks for all the information. I know a lab would have been a better solution for duck hunting but my wife is not a fan of them. We both evxercise daily and plan to include the pup as well. As well we are both teachers and work within minutes of home so can come midday and let him out. We plan on crate training early on. Is this a necessity? Thanks again.
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Crate training a puppy is the best way to go. The GSP is primarily a pointing breed. You really should consider pursuing that if you get one. Go to a hunt test and watch them work, you will be hooked.
I don't know why this has turned into a breed discussion.
GSPs are fantastic family dogs and passionate hunters. However, they have their needs and you better make sure you have plenty of time to sufficiently exercise your new dog!! 30min on-leash walk 2x per day do NOT count as physical exercise.
Crate training is a good thing, no doubt - what is not good is locking your dog up in one for long. If a dog chews stuff in the house, a crate is not the solution; it's just a band-aid fix that will result in more issues down the road. Make sure you provide plenty of physical, mental and social stimulation.
I don't think it's a breed discussion, just a couple of well meaning suggestions for someone who may wish to hunt waterfowl.
I guess I read the OP differently; kind of the breed and breeder are already finalized.Quote:
Originally Posted by krakadawn
if the question comes down to deciding between a lab and a pointer for the sole purpose of waterfowl hunting, the answer is kind of obvious. however, we all know that there is more involved in making a decision like this, especially when it comes to a 'family member'.
either way, I agree that a complete mismatch wouldn't be a good start...
November puppies, time wise fit well into competitions age etc but they can be a handful. So regardless of the breed, consider how busy you both will be at that time of year.
Will there be regular time for all the puppy experiences that are required?
Short, cold days make for difficult training and burning energy etc.
We currently have a 4 month old(amongst others) who has had a great start, early water introduction, crate training, been on the truck for a week etc, and lots of retrieving along with developing basics like sit, here. Has amazingly strong swimming skills already. The point here is summer may well be a better time for you(considering your job) to develop those initial skills and develop a 'family' fit.
Regardless find some local people who train whatever your choice is....new friends with like interests will pay off immensely.
Good luck!
Thanks again. Initially we were hoping for a spring litter but that didn't happen. We do have the time to put into the pup but just looking for basic info. Thanks again.
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I live close to you and have pigeons. Bring him over when you get him and we can do a bird/gun introduction. I also have several working dogs and we can work on proper socialization. Around 10 to 20 weeks is the imprinting stage in puppies and there are certain things that should be done in that period in order to end up with a well adjusted and well rounded dog. I also have Huntsmith puppy development dvd's you can borrow which are very helpful in developing proper behaviour patterns in a puppy.
Here's a good book
How to help gundogs train themselves by J Bailey
Takes you through the first year of the dog's life.
Thanks. I will take a look at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by vom Dufenshmirtz
Congratulations , --- regarding your decision to get a hunting-dog . --- Since your mind seems to be made-up already I won't try to sway it . --- However , as Sharon (and others) pointed out a "milder-mannered" pooch might be more suitable (due to circumstances) . --- I have never owned a GSP but was "fanatic" about my GWP (German Wirehaired Pointer) . They are just as high-strung and energetic as the GSPs . --- Generally , a NEWBIE (to dog-ownership) finds it easier to train himself as well as the dog if he chooses a more sedate BUDDY . --- What-ever your decision is going to be : Good Luck !
If I wasn't a hunter I would own an Airdale. Great dogs.
I have 2 Gsps, they are the first dogs my husband and I have ever owned - 2 years old and 9 months old, both female. Best decision we ever made though the energy level was still a surprise even after all the research we did. What ever level you think they are, add about one third to that, I would joke that my oldest has ADHD, her energy level is much higher than my youngest.
They are amazing dogs but I urge you not to be suckered in my their eyes (learned this the hard way), these dogs need structure especially for the first year. I use clicker training for the first year and ensure 100% compliance before introducing an e-collar (which I use for recall).
This is the book I used to create my plan :
http://www.clickertraining.com/files...hapter_One.pdf
Thanks a lot. Looks like a good resource.
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Great offer from Jakezilla you should seriously think about taking him up on it.
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This is solid advice. I skipped through the PDF you linked and I have mixed feeling about it - too much info on some things, not enough on others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini898
I certainly do not recommend clicker training for a hunting dog (done that).
As an aside, I was just reading about a new study which showed no difference between clicker training, use of a verbal marker ("Bravo") with a food treat, and use of a food treat with no marker in training a simple task.Quote:
Originally Posted by vom Dufenshmirtz
A lot of claims are made that clicker training is magic, but they don't hold up.
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I know a ton of people who won't use clickers for their hunting dogs, personally I haven't had a bad experience with it. I clicker trained my oldest until she was a year old and I still introduce new commands with the clicker. Personally, I think the clicker helps me more than the dog, I don't like to speak during training sessions so I use the clicker and my body language to do the speaking for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by vom Dufenshmirtz
Quote:
Originally Posted by vom Dufenshmirtz
What happened when you tried to do clicker training with your hunting dog(breed?)? What issues/problems did you run into? I'd like to know if I will have some future problems.
I use clicker training for a new dog in the house.... basic obedience .Once it's in the field , I don't use clicker training, although it is useful for a new pup in the field who isn't isn't moving away from the sound of a clicker yet .
It has to be connected pretty soon though to the "come now" command/ e collar use. The dog won't hear a clicker 300 yards out there. :)
edited for : hear not here
True story, I love my e-collar... partially because it also has gps on it lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
A couple of suggestions:
I would not wait a year before introducing the e collar and I certainly would not use clicker training with the view of transitioning to the collar. Using the collar only for recall is such a waste of a useful tool.
Teach basics...that's a given.
Collar condition the dog around the 6 month mark. There is ample written material on how to collar condition. Try Mike Lardy's sequence and instruction as per his web site just as an example. Start with sit, whistle sit, here, heel etc.
Once collar conditioned you will have a tool to use reinforcing field training, especially with lack of effort on dog's part. Doing it this way is much cleaner and more effective than clickering first and then looking at transitioning to the collar.
Use an e collar and forget all the other stuff. Trust me. My dogs (GWP and a DD) run on electricity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
Very true. It is fun and useful with a new puppy though IN THE HOUSE.
Oh I didn't mean to sidetrack this thread :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini898
Nothing to worry about. Clicker is for training dolphins. Dogs adapted to be trained by humans over thousands of years w/o a bloody clicker ;) Dogs are amazingly receptive to tone of voice and body language.
In fact I always tell new trainers - your voice is your most powerful training tool, you should be able to go from sounding angry to happy in half a second (and never get angry for real! if you do, wrap the training for the day).
Anyone using clicker is simply delaying development of the 'bond', i.e. better understanding between the handler and the dog. JMO. One must be consistent, of course, but bad trainers are going to be bad no matter what tool they use (until they improve :) )
put a smiley face there or something, some newbie will read it and start pushing the button like there's no tomorrow, you think I exaggerate? it happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by dilly
Learn to collar condition properly to support basics.
We have seen this happen while fishing up at Southampton, a woman was training her Black Lab. dog along the Saugeen River, all we heard was the poor dog yelping every two to three minutes, this kept up for about 3/4 of an hour till I couldn't stand it anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by vom Dufenshmirtz
I pulled our boat close to shore and hollered at her that if I hear one more yelp from that dog, I would come ashore and wrap that collar around her neck and keep giving her jolts till she smartened up.
She then quit and left the area without even answering.
Agreed. My point was if you have a driven and hard headed breed, Like a shorthair, you better have a firm hand and a method of following up on your "angry tone of voice". Proper application of consistent ecollar training sets an early tone. My oldest dog almost never needs a nick any more but he also knows when he isn't wearing his ecollar. The pup needs lots of reminders.Quote:
Originally Posted by vom Dufenshmirtz
I am not sure where the term high strung, hard headed interrupts to a GSP. Any sporting breed is high strung / hard headed if it is of any use as a hunting dog. I was with field trial labs today and they admitted that these dogs were not dogs for first time owner/handlers. There are distinct levels in these breeds and all hunting breeds. The sporting breeds that are in the show ring are usually not as active as those that are in the competitive hunt trials and may be better for a first time handler. When you enter the world of hunting dogs they all require a certain amount of attention with exercise and or training. When they get bored they can get destructive, and be a nuisance.
Buyers should do their home work when looking for a dog, know that their commitment could be for up to 15 years +/-, join a group that trains dogs to get instruction on training. Not all GSPs are high strung, and not all labs are passive, but the all require exercise and training.
Dick
ROTFLMAO, how about educating a poor woman? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Some people are better at intimidation, than others and its level has to be matched to the dog being trained.Quote:
a method of following up on your "angry tone of voice"
Intereating views. Wasn't planning on using the clicker but have watched some videos of it working on young dogs.
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[COLOR=#333333]http://www.oodmag.com/community/imag...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jaycee http://www.oodmag.com/community/imag...post-right.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by vom Dufenshmirtz
[COLOR=#333333]a method of following up on your "angry tone of voice"
Where did I ever say the above ? ??
[COLOR=#333333]http://www.oodmag.com/community/imag...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jaycee http://www.oodmag.com/community/imag...post-right.png
[COLOR=#333333]a method of following up on your "angry tone of voice"
Be careful with assuming high strung and hard headed are the same as high prey drive. They are not. Great hunting dogs like great competitors have intelligence and high prey drive. They also have an off switch in the house but like most things it has to be taught.
I continue to say that strong basics must be taught and developed to form the basis for future learning and behaviour. Strong foundations are invaluable.
Or you could of gone ashore and offered your assistance on how to use an e-collar correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
I'm sure that would have gone well. People are normally so receptive to stranger's views on their dog training methods and abilities. ;)
It's all in the approach. You could say, hey you son of a b**** I'm gonna wrap that collar around your neck. Oh wait that's been already offered. lol
Some great advice here already. Yes you could have choosen another breed, however, if you are set on the GSP for whatever your reasons are (fur/shedding, energy level, temperment, looks, health etc.) then stick with that breed. Specific breeds bred to do a certain job isn't always everyone's cup of tea based on a number of personal reasons, you may just wish to leave your dog out of the waterfowling equation.
As long as you are committed to exercising, training and setting the boundaries and expectations in your household, dog should be raised just fine. As others mentioned, foundation is key. And the mental and physical stimulation is crucial for sanity!
Children - you have to teach your child to respect the dog, the dogs space and be a role model. Dog is a dog, not a friken horse or proding toy. Dog needs a safe haven to escape chaos and retreat peacefully to recharge like a dog bed or crate. Teach your pup to take treats nicely, work with your pup early on and continuously on giving up/trading items like toys etc. for a treat to avoid resource gaurding, accept people walking by while eating at bowl (add in a few special morsels so dog associates good things happening around food bowl) dog raised have manners really important as is no jumping, and learning to like children.
Well stated!Quote:
Originally Posted by maplevizsla