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I have been swabbing between shoots with two wet patches then two dry ones .no problem. But when I am done shooting I clean her really good with as many wets as needed.my question is do you leave a shot out primer in the gun to stop all the cleaning solvent from entering the trigger area.i notice after a few wet patches there can be a fair bit of liquid left in the bottom of the barrel.
Dutch not knowing what ML you have hard to say I use a Knight MK 85 so this is not really an issue for me.
I have a TC Triumph online. I just hate the thought of all the funky solvents going into the firing pin hole
Hey Dutch, do you pull the breech plug and do a soap and water cleanup each time? That's the best way to start. Once you get it "soap and water clean" it takes very little in terms of solvent and oil to finish cleaning. When mine gets put away it only has a light coat of oil in the bore. I also give the breech plug a thorough cleaning each time as well.
With the break open in-lines, pull out the plug, remove the barrel and just stand it in a bucket. Pour a kettle of hot water thru the barrel and let the breach end soak in the water. Scrub the barrel, wipe it down (dry), then give it a coat a light oil.
No 'funky' cleaners needed.
The trigger and receiver get cleaned separate from the barrel.
Right or wrong, this is what I've been doing for close to 20 years. I leave the breech end in the boiling water and as you swab it brings the boiling water up the barrel. Dry swab it well and oil it. During hunting season, I oil the outside only. When I'm putting it away for the year, I oil the inside of the barrel and make sure to swab it out well before the first shot next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I've never used any solvents, including soap. Not saying you shouldn't, its just how I do it.
Stand the gun on the muzzle in the safe. That way no oil or solvents seep out not in the action.
All my guns rest muzzle down in the safe
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So glad I have a savage 10ML II(smokeless powder). No stabbing or cleaning needed..lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter
That why I think it should be termed a black powder season not a muzzle loader season, not only would it get some of the older black powder breech loaders off the wall and back into action, but it would give you smokeless powder fellas a more round pastime. Half the fun of the black powder shooting is doing the clean up at the end of the shoot. It heralds back to a day where keeping your firearm in top shape determine it's overall effectiveness. The lax approproach to firearm maintenance in the age of smokeless powder has spelt the ruin of a good many fine firearms. It's all part of the well round black powder experience, lol.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
That's my overall opinion too. I have actually gone backwards as my addiction to black powder shooting increased. I went from the substitute powders (T7) with in-line .50 cal MLs, to a .45 side lock patch and ball .45 Kentucky using Pyrodex too what I'm shooting now ..an old musket cap .58 Musketoon using Goex 2FF powder...the dirty of the dirtiest. LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
I thoroughly enjoy the cleaning process, I don't look at it like a chore but rather an integral part of the experience in shooting Black Powder guns.
Doing something fun with my thumbs other than operating a game console...LOL...
Cleaning the ML really scratches the Obsessive Compulsive Order itch! Slow, methodical, meticulous!
...I better clean it again, just to make sure!
Regarding cleaning the ML. Yes it must be cleaned. I have to clean mine after 3 shots using triple 7. If I don't clean it I can't get the 3rd sabot in. I am considering using blackhorn powder. I hear you will not need to clean it during the season. Afterwards yes.
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agree... smokeless muzzleloaders is defeating the purpose of why rifles where banned in high density rural areas in the first place, it also goes against the cocept that a muzzleloader should be a more primitive weapon that is limited in range, require regular cleaning and maintenance hence why they added a third week of hunting with them.
As the rules sit now you can use a modern rifle in the shotgun and muzzleloader season and shoot deer at 300 yards without issue.
This is exactly why they elimintad rifles 2 decades ago to eliminate high powered rifles from being discharged in heavily populated and hunted areas. So now the rifle is loaded down the muzzle the safety reasons should not apply ???
As soon as theres one incident with a bullet richochet from a smokeless rifle they will be regulated not for use in southern ontario as it will bring attention to what they are.
I never understood the use of soap and water for cleaning a gun. Never found a need for it with my Encore.
1 shot vs 3 shots is probably part of the reasoningQuote:
Originally Posted by Monster29/66
Just tried soap and water yesterday and loved the simplicity of cleaning. and no patches just dry patch and lube.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mount Sweetness
Reading this tripe really pisses me off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster29/66
You got this very wrong. I'm one of those guys your bashing above.
BTW - Center fire Rifles aren't banned at all you just can't hunt deer south of 7 with them.... let's get that straight. Most all old ml and shotguns alike use rifled barrels and have long before those regs were written.
300 yards without issue?
What kind of horse shyte is that comment?
You have any idea how much work went into making something like that happen?
You know what I realized after going through all the work? I can achieve the same 300 yard capabilities using BH209 in same gun.... The quality of barrel/build is what really makes that gun what it is. So let's give everybody a pos smooth bore ml and blow Bambi's leg off because hey we got to make this tough!
2000 ft pound of energy at 300 yards and -18 inches... BH209.... can be done.
What the hell do you think a R.E.M. 700 UML is? 2400 fps with a 250 pill and that's 4 pellets of t7... That is a 300 yard gun and is marketed as such.
Do you know why it isn't marketed as a 400 yard gun? Cause it isn't.... Its in the dirt just like every other ML.
Here is another way to look at it;
I can still walk out the back 40 with a 270 shooting 130 grain pills for coyote.... Explain that with your comments above....completely legal even though as you put it they are banned.
Ballistically that 270 will bounce and ricochet and is a much flatter round. Hey let's go one further, those round balls the old timers shoot are the worst dam things as far as ricochet goes. Nothing bounces like a ball or did you not learn that in school?
As a matter of fact the last person killed in Canada by a Ml was killed by that very thing by a fellow discharging his black powder ML with a ball as I recall. So that means they should also be banned then.
So let's get this straight a ML by definition is no breach load rifle.... never will be, certainly nowhere near in the same league as a high powered rifle. At 500 they are in the dirt on their way to China with not much left in the tank while that 270 is still flying high and in good hands can take a deer quite easily. Laws of physics apply.
Finally there really isn't an inline ml on the market right now that isn't capable of 200 yards and many capable of a great deal more but at the end of the day a Centerfire rifle will always have much greater range and capabilities than a ML.
Do everybody a favour and stop spewing your BS as facts. It isn't appreciated. With hunters like you we don't need the liberals. Everything will be banned but pea shooters.
Excellent ! excellent , excellent, :goodstuff: :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
My savage 10ML ii is in the the top 10 best hunting investments I have ever made... :)
Xcellant post Big Jack... totally agree with it
this thread was about cleaning muzzloaders which someone chirped wasnt necessary with a smokeless after several replied they thought it defeats the purpose of muzzle loading i said the same and pointed out increased muzzle velocities leads to safety issues in heavily populated southern areas. I still have that opinion.. and yes i know 270 and under are stil permitted south of seven for coyotes and other small game as theirs less people in the woods hunting yotes than deer.
Ive hunted yotes for a long time...ran hounds with em and have a TC Icon 270... do i use it for coyotes running hounds with other hunters. NO we stick to 22 mags or shot guns and keep shots close as its a fast paced hunt where hunters and yotes are on the move and difficult to be aware of all people / hunters around.
My 270 is for spotting clear cuts in the north where people and hunters are less frequent.
MNR knew with so many deer hunters in southern ontario, pushing bushes etc use of high powered rifles issues arise, let alone the perception of what non hunters think hearing the crack of rifles beside their house. So by putting smokeless powder in a rifled muzzeloader what do we have ?? a Big Bore Single Shot Rifle capable of long range shooting exactly what MNR was hoping to eliminate.
If you dont believe hunters running around taking longer range shots in southern ontario is a safety issue ask Stan Jonathon how it worked for him and Peter Kosid, bottom line the further away shots are taken with calibers toting increased velocities accidents happen. Given the relative ease of getting a deer south of highway 7 is it necessary, most hunters i know have no problem getting a deer with a bow let alone someone firing shots at 2 to 300 yards.
There was no personal attack on you, but since you spend so much time bragging about your new long range gun, you built ( or had built for you ) and your free hand hay maker shots its you who feels the need to stroke your own ego.
Do the world a favor and accept not everyone agrees with your self serving point of view and maybe if you spend less time polishing your ego and polishing the inside of your bore you wouldnt have to brag about your gun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I got my ball and patch ready to roll this year and the goex FFF... havent had time last couple years to use it with the new farm... but im taking a deer with it this year wearing my beaver fur hat and hopefuly in the snow...i like the tradition of it... it adds bit of excitement when you pull the trigger and dont always know if its going to fire lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster29/66
Listen bud, I spend a lot of time practicing and shooting. I post what I learn for the benefit of the community. I posted what I had built and how I had it built so that others could do the same if they chose to. Overall a I try and assist the folks on here whenever, however I can. I plan on continuing working loads down from max to see where the real sweet spot is and that takes time and patience but I will post results on here just as always.
I also share success and failure both, but hey maybe you missed that. Ego has nothing to do with it. Am I proud of making a good shot here and there, yes I am. Nothing wrong with that but I'll also tell you when I miss a deer at 50 yards.
You make all kinds of personal comments of which the last ones got deleted. My response to you also got deleted which is unfortunate because it shows a lot about your character.
If you consider a 300 yard gun a long range outfit, you are sadly mistaken and I feel sorry for you.
45 cal projectiles don't fly like a 270. You claiming they are akin is ridiculous. 300 yards is that guns ethical limit in my eyes. At 500 yards that bullet is 7' below zero.
My regular off the shelf savage held 1.5 inch groups at 200 yards. At 300 it wasn't consistent enough for my liking. So I changed up and got a very accurate rig. A second one is being built. By the way either one can be used in either US or Canada in any state. I can use black powder if I choose and it is 45 cal. So I guess a rig that passes everyone's standard is somehow a massive danger to every other hunter in the bush.
I stand by my comments. I could care less if you agree just don't like it when folks hide behind boulders and throw rocks. Also don't like you passing your opinion as fact and taking pot shots at others in the process.
By the way that 22 mag is one of the worst guns for ricochets unless you use frangiblle ammo. Ignorance to low velocity projectiles and their tendency to ricochet could cost you or someone else dearly one day.
Ill add one other thing, I'm done with you and commenting on your posts.
In hindsight, I usually avoid troll posts and I probably just should have ignored you.
I like bigjacks posts..... they are real and are of interest.
I certainly didn't find him to be spitting out dangerous information... I found it to be the opposite.....but like I said before,
if you look for a flaw, you tend to find one...so stop looking... For those not sure what that means...its simple...... you can look for the negative or you can look for the positive in any situation or statement, you have the power to decide.... Myself, I like looking for the positive because being negative sucks....
Read back on your posts and read mine.. my post is based on safety and discharge of 300 yards in high density rural areas, long shots in southern ont as most farms 100 acres or less.... dimensioned 2087ft on 4 sides or 695 yards. A 300 yard shot from center of property is near someone elses property line.. if theres a richochet from a 300 grain bullet does it fragment into dust or does the bullet stop on someone elses side of the fence ?
There is lot of young hunters on here looking for advice, as an experienced shooter are you sending a good message about how to build a custom MZ capable of shooting maximum ranges at game ? Sorry bud your hunting ethics and firearm safety arent how i mentor young hunters nor how i was mentored. Read the story of Stan Jonthan its all right there the longer you shoot the more difficult it is to verify whats past where your shooting.
At my neighbours range 300 yards is not a long shot with the 270 or 6.5. BUT with a safe back stop.
dont worry we make safe shots with the 22s, if theres risk just let the race roll, were not desperate ive got 4 yotes this fall and winters not here yet, nice to let the dogs enjoy the chase or get em bayed.. or watch a deer walk at 250 yards and wait for a better shot.
Seems like an influx of back and forth arguements lately
Post season Hangovers...:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mount Sweetness
Love my 10MLII. If I wanted to do lots of mopping I'd clean the kitchen floor. To each his own, but those who've never owned or shot one shouldn't spread falsehoods. My 2 cents....
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Gregoire1960
My buddy just bought a new to him Savage 10ML ii from a forum member here. Its a SS model with laminate stock. What an amazing gun it is. He is extremely happy with it & cant get over the fact that he doesnt need to swab between shots & no smoke when he shoots...lol
I'm sure the old breach loader didn't use computers and drive cars lol
facts are friend of mine whos a collector has a savage.. ive shot it and a lot of other firearms and know exactly what its capable of.
fact savage requires minimal cleaning, to each their own takes me 20 minutes to clean the omega 30 minutes for the hawken with time to dru, no mess on shop floor given its 1/2 hr to clean, gut wash deer its a good time for a scotch after.
heres a fact finding mission for you factual folks phone MNR and ask them why rifles were banned for the southern ontario deer hunt then show them the facts on the ballistics of the savage....
sorry folks just the facts not someones biased because they have one.
back to cleaning water, soap works but dont forget every few cleaning to use a cleaner that will disolve or eat the burnt plastic in your bore lans from
the sabot...
Hope your beaver hat comes in blaze orange! And rifles aren't banned in southern ontario. I am in southern ontario and shoot deer with my rifle every year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster29/66
They may as well ban 20 gauge slug guns my friend. Because a saboted 20ga slug is the same as what basically everyone shoots in the modern muzzleloaders.
why are firearms owners so quick to judge each other. Just because you like something different doesnt make it wrong or less of a choice than yours. squabbling over what should be banned isnt going to help our cause as responsible gun owners we are already on a tight leash why are some proposing we tighten it any more. Now stop arguing and go hunting already!
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I'm fairly new here Deer Wrastler, but I've been on different forums, for different interests, and there are always those who take things much too seriously. Personally, I get involved in these things for enjoyment, not to get into a pissing contest. Many forums have a way to 'ignore' or 'block' certain trouble makers, I don't know if this one does or not. Other than that, the only way to deal with it is like I deal with it in real life......walk away, and keep smiling. :-)
Windex. Cleans amazing.
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Good for you, large portion of southern ontario they arent legal for deer.. but i use rifles north of my area where appropriate...Quote:
Originally Posted by rippin_355
I got nothing against any rifle as long as its discharged safely and doesnt become a concern of the general public.
PS i can send you a pic of an orange toque on my fur hat if it keeps me out of jail.
Well said gentlemen. Sounds like a pissing match and I am fresh outta piss.Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturalPath
To the original poster, I use FFG 777 in a CVA Apex front stuffer. I damp swab between shots while at the range or in the field, but when I get home I take the barrel off and the muzzle goes into a bucket of HOT water with dish soap, I then plunge the rod at least 2-3 dozen times, switch the water and do it again. A couple of dry patches are next, then bore butter, leave it sloppy until it cools, then dry swab until the bore butter is cleaned up. Next load literally slides down the barrel on its own the barrel is so clean. I use this same process for long term storage as well. Good luck!