Remington 597 22LR

Not sure if this is the correct place for this kind of post, but here goes...

So I fired off my Remington 597 for the first time today at the shooting range, and it was also my first time ever shooting a gun. Wow. Damn I'm hooked.

I've heard that it is normal for shots/groupings to be all over the place when firing a new gun, and I'd like to confirm this as being the case. Toward the end of my practice, I was shooting straight on at a target 25 yards away and hitting where I was aiming directly at. However, earlier on it wasn't doing that at all - it was shooting a good couple inches higher than where I was aiming at. I fired off 200 rounds, and towards the end, after 160 or so, it was more or less dead on.

Would such a discrepancy be normal?

I figured that adjusting my iron sights would not be prudent at this time as I suppose the barrel needed to be "primed" or "broken in". I will clean it and see what happens at the range again.

Where you cleaning the gun between shots?. I use a sled when sighting in my guns so I remove human error. My. 338 will shoot about an 2 inches out at 200yards v a just cleaned barrel which will be dead on. Congrats on the new gun and enjoy the sport. Always remember safety first. Get good habits when starting out.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

Its not uncommon. Clean it and see what happens next time.

Welcome to the world of shooting

Sagen, you said it was your first time shooting a gun. You would not be expected to get it right the first time. I would say you did well to stick with it (firing 200 rounds) and you did better near the end so obviously you were paying more attention to lining up your sights before squeezing the trigger. I would suggest that you DO NOT adjust your sights and just keep practicing. Cleaning your gun after each shot is not necessary. Just clean it before you store it. Good luck, have fun and welcome to the forum...........Daniel

Thanks for all your advice! It is greatly appreciated.

Probably had to do with the barrel heat.
next time use a good rest and take your time with it, fire a few shots and adjust your wigs if needed, then give the barrel time to cool down

Got my 597 a few months ago. Really a nice and fun little rifle to play with.

I remembered the manual suggests cleaning a lot when it's new (something like after every shot for the first 20 shots, and every 10 shots for the first 100, etc...). So just make sure at least cleaning the barrel thoroughly after you get home.

Another point I learnt was trying to avoid soft point bullets, as they tend to jam a lot. Actually I read it somewhere they should never be used for any semi-autos. Stick with FMJs. In terms of accuracy I also had the best results on CCI mini-mag just like many others.

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Originally Posted by acb_ye

Got my 597 a few months ago. Really a nice and fun little rifle to play with.

I remembered the manual suggests cleaning a lot when it's new (something like after every shot for the first 20 shots, and every 10 shots for the first 100, etc...). So just make sure at least cleaning the barrel thoroughly after you get home.

Another point I learnt was trying to avoid soft point bullets, as they tend to jam a lot. Actually I read it somewhere they should never be used for any semi-autos. Stick with FMJs. In terms of accuracy I also had the best results on CCI mini-mag just like many others.

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Never herd this bunk before. A quality rifle should shoot all ammo consistently. I have 2 semi 22 rifles, a Browning SA22 and a buckmark rifle and they both shoot various ammo without jamming . Come to think of it neither one has seen any FMJ ammo. They both seem to prefer standard velocity cci 40 gr lead solids .

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

Never herd this bunk before. A quality rifle should shoot all ammo consistently. I have 2 semi 22 rifles, a Browning SA22 and a buckmark rifle and they both shoot various ammo without jamming . Come to think of it neither one has seen any FMJ ammo. They both seem to prefer standard velocity cci 40 gr lead solids .

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I guess I misused the term FMJ, as what I really meant was FMJ or copper plated, though the difference should not be that big.

But the soft points or any exposed lead are the ones that should be avoided in SA according to what I heard. The exposed lead point may get scraped on the top of the chamber as it is pushed out of the magazine forward into the chamber. Obviously it doesn't apply to all SAs, and I'm really glad yours can handle those no problem.

I've shot tens of thousands of .22 rounds over the last 40 years and never had trouble with lead rounds hanging up in any actions. Any jamming I've ever experienced was a problem with the gun not the ammo.

Did you give the gun barrel a good cleaning before shooting it? New guns should be cleaned prior to shooting, some come with a lot of rust inhibitor on/in them

So I have been cleaning my gun when I get home, and cleaning it well. It's a good rifle to learn to clean, as this rifle doesn't seem to be all that complicated (so far). I've broken it down enough so that I can clean out the barrel, trigger and it's housing, and the housing for the trigger housing which the barrel is connected to.

I bought a scope for it recently - just a cheap $20 Tasco affair - and next I will have to realign the iron sights (and shoot with that) before I mess with the scope.

Eventually the cheap scope will make it's way for an air rifle down the road, and I will invest in a good scope sooner than later. Right now it's all just learning curve here.

Maybe I am being too cautious in not wanting to buy the more expensive stuff outright? Time will tell, I suppose. The thing is, I tend to learn the hard way with the cheap $h]t which I tend to apply to the better stuff. Always has worked for me before, but even I have a thought in the back of my mind that maybe this might not be the best way to go...

Sagin, you and I both took the, "new" gun course.

How do you feel about looking down the barrel?

Honestly, I think it is nuts and scary as hell.

How long have they been teaching newbies to look down the barrel?

[QUOTE=Noseyarentcha;1008393]Sagin, you and I both took the, "new" gun course.

How do you feel about looking down the barrel?

Honestly, I think it is nuts and scary as hell.

How long have they been teaching newbies to look down the barrel?[/QUOTE]

I always look down the barrel before using any of my guns.

Unless you think a gun has the potencial to always be loaded why is there an issue with that?

If you can't tell if your gun is loaded or not, I think it's nuts and scary as hell!

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Originally Posted by Noseyarentcha

Sagin, you and I both took the, "new" gun course.

How do you feel about looking down the barrel?

Honestly, I think it is nuts and scary as hell.

How long have they been teaching newbies to look down the barrel?

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They teach you first to check to see if the chamber has a round in it, AFTER you remove the magazine (if any). So unless a bullet magically appears in the chamber when you go to look down the barrel...

The point being: if you pick up a gun, especially someone else's gun, and you want to PROVE it safe (again, especially someone else's gun), you remove magazine, empty chamber, then look down the barrel. In that order. You might think you will never touch someone else's gun, but it may happen if you are group hunting and someone asks you to do them a favour and get their gun... or something to that effect.

If the first thing you do is look down the barrel... well... ya know: shenanigans could ensue.

Also, the 60 second waiting period when you misfire a dud? Here's why (its barrel looking related):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgmx_KgQZvI

Wait 60 seconds, then eject the round (and keep trying to eject it). Then look down barrel (in case bullet or shots are stuck in barrel which you must then clean).

If I couldn't eject the round? I'll assume I am SOL and wait a good while before I break down the gun and attempt to remove the round manually.

Don't ruin that hairline of yours!

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Originally Posted by seabast

If you can't tell if your gun is loaded or not, I think it's nuts and scary as hell!

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This is why I like guns with that "last shot open" feature. It will have the action (chamber) stay open after last bullet, so if the action is closed then assume it's loaded.

I know it's a pain in the a.R.$.s. but if you just aren't sure if a gun is loaded then going through the process to unload the gun - to ensure its not loaded - is the way to go.

Naturally, I assume I am preaching to the choir here. I'm writing this out for anyone who may be interested in guns, is not a gun owner, and succeeds the 1 in a million chance of actually coming across this thread in the future. LOL.

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Originally Posted by Noseyarentcha

How long have they been teaching newbies to look down the barrel?

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Forgot to address this one. I have no idea how long.

One more thing: I've sighted my scope today. And iron sight as well. Great stuff. Had no one walk me through it, and had some issues but nothing unsurmountable. Got my directions screwed up for a bit (elevation versus windage) but I figured it out (aka looked at the damned screws: one says "UP" with a direction, and the other says "R" with a direction... ha ha ha ha such an idiot I am).

I got it very close to zero at around 25 yards - I think it's 25. I forgot what the range people said it was. :)

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Originally Posted by SaginMerusan

Forgot to address this one. I have no idea how long.

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They've been teaching that since 1960 in Ontario when the safety course was started....

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Originally Posted by Noseyarentcha

Sagin, you and I both took the, "new" gun course.

How do you feel about looking down the barrel?

Honestly, I think it is nuts and scary as hell.

How long have they been teaching newbies to look down the barrel?

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I took the hunter and firearms safety course in the mid-70's. They didn't teach us to look down the barrel then.
When I did the exam (early 2000's maybe???) I was surprised that I am to look down the barrel for obstructions. For autos and levers this means looking down the business end, which I don't particularly like doing - and only do if I have reason to suspect there is an obstruction (i.e. I dropped it barrel-first in the mud/snow etc). If I use a single/break action, I check the barrel when I pick it up.

[QUOTE=seabast;1008412]

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Originally Posted by Noseyarentcha

Sagin, you and I both took the, "new" gun course.

How do you feel about looking down the barrel?

Honestly, I think it is nuts and scary as hell.

How long have they been teaching newbies to look down the barrel?[/QUOTE]

I always look down the barrel before using any of my guns.

Unless you think a gun has the potencial to always be loaded why is there an issue with that?

If you can't tell if your gun is loaded or not, I think it's nuts and scary as hell!

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I did not say that I am unable to determine if a gun is loaded or not, nor did I say that a gun has the potential to always be loaded.

I simply said that I think looking down the barrel is nuts and scary as hell!

I can see how easily it was to misread my words and make up scenerios from what you thought I said.

No worries ;)

Everybody makes mistakes.

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Originally Posted by SaginMerusan

Not sure if this is the correct place for this kind of post, but here goes...

So I fired off my Remington 597 for the first time today at the shooting range, and it was also my first time ever shooting a gun. Wow. Damn I'm hooked.

I've heard that it is normal for shots/groupings to be all over the place when firing a new gun, and I'd like to confirm this as being the case. Toward the end of my practice, I was shooting straight on at a target 25 yards away and hitting where I was aiming directly at. However, earlier on it wasn't doing that at all - it was shooting a good couple inches higher than where I was aiming at. I fired off 200 rounds, and towards the end, after 160 or so, it was more or less dead on.

Would such a discrepancy be normal?

I figured that adjusting my iron sights would not be prudent at this time as I suppose the barrel needed to be "primed" or "broken in". I will clean it and see what happens at the range again.

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Hey Sagin~congrats on getting into the shooting sports, and, on getting your first rifle in the caliber I love most~.22LR! I won't touch on the "looking down the barrel" topic as others have addressed their concerns about that, however, I would like to chime-in on the rest! I suspect the better results "toward the end" were the result of a combination of factors;


1. the barrel getting "fouled"~most 22LR shooters I know believe their barrels shoot best once they've had a certain amount of lead through it
2. 22s, especially autoloaders in my experience, start to "settle-in" (=break-in) with time. I've met plenty of rimfire guys who swear it takes 500+ rounds for their guns to start shooting at their best
3. comfort level~the more any of us shoot, the better we're likely to get
4. better trigger control with practice/more familiarity with using the sights, etc.


There are other, more subtle factors like breathing...the amount of caffeine in your system (it messes with me), wind if you're outdoors, distance, how you're holding the rifle, whether or not your barrel is free-floated (touching the stock where it shouldn't) etc. I wouldn't say using a 22 semi @ 25 yards with open sights...those will be as big an issue vs. using a bolt gun with a good scope at 2-3x+ that distance. I would like to add a few other thoughts based on my experience. Since I'm in a list-writing frame of mind, I'll do it that way. :)


1. when you see copper-colored bullets, chances are they're copper-washed, NOT "FMJ"/plated. It's applied to provide some lubrication (as I understand it) and to many, is the cleanest-running ammo to run through semis. The alternative is usually bullets with a fine, wax coating and yes...that can gum things up over time. Personally, I shoot what the gun likes the most..and clean as required.
2. NO 2 AMMO TYPES shoot the same from a given rifle, period. Your gun will likely shoot some very well, some terribly. If you're lucky, it'll shoot 1 or 2 types exceptionally well. There is one, and only one way to find out~buy a box of 50 of every type you can get your hands on and test them out. The MOST reliable way to get the best results is with a scoped gun, shot from a solid rest.
3. scopes~15+ years back, you'd have had a hard time convincing me that any scope needs to cost more than $100. Today? The scope I just put on my .223 is worth more than 2x what the rifle is. I'm not suggesting you do that, however, there is merit in using a decent scope...and more importantly..one meant for rimfires. NOT ALL SCOPES are well-suited for rimfires, in spite of what many gun-counter guys will tell you. If shooting 25 yards or less is on your to-do list, you want a scope with an adjustable objective. That doesn't mean it needs to be a big $ scope either.
4. autoloaders/accuracy~597s have a pretty good reputation for accuracy once you find the ammo it likes most. Like almost all semis made today (including Mossberg 702s, Ruger 10/22s, Marlin 60/795, etc.) the triggers are a bit on the heavy side. Ultimately, this will impact the accuracy once you stretch-out the distance a little. If it's your first time shooting..you won't have any frame of reference but if you get the chance at the range, try shooting a bolt-action rifle. Out of the gate, most factory bolt guns have better triggers than semis and some have absolutely great ones. For really accurate shooting, triggers matter. I've used spring kits from MCARBO in my Marlins, and they make a kit for the 597 if you feel like upgrading down the road; http://www.mcarbo.com/store/p/28-Rem...pring-Kit.aspx


I'm a bolt-gun guy through and through, and have owned (over the years) almost every action there is save for falling block. For me, bolt guns offer the most accuracy, best trigger, are easiest to clean, etc. but I still keep a nicely-tuned Marlin 795 for times when I want the brass to fly. :) I think you made a good choice with the 597, but when $ allows...get a decent AO scope on there. You'll be glad you did. After that, a wide variety of ammo to test out, and a solid rest to do it from. I have have a snazzy set of shooting bags from the US, but 10lb. bag of rice would be nearly as effective as what I use for a front rest! :) Keep shooting no matter what, even if a better scope/ammo/rest is down the road a little. PM me if you'd like a few suggestions on a scope, and don't rule-out used.


There is probably more I could ramble-on about, but that's it for now.

[QUOTE=Noseyarentcha;1009078]

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Originally Posted by seabast

I can see how easily it was to misread my words and make up scenerios from what you thought I said.
No worries ;)
Everybody makes mistakes.

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Now, now... Don't be fouling up my perception of my perfection. Not only that, but I dare you to say "perception of my perfection" really fast 20 times.

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Originally Posted by GrouseWhisperer

Hey Sagin~congrats on getting into the shooting sports, and, on getting your first rifle in the caliber I love most~.22LR!

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Thanks!

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Originally Posted by GrouseWhisperer

2. 22s, especially autoloaders in my experience, start to "settle-in" (=break-in) with time. I've met plenty of rimfire guys who swear it takes 500+ rounds for their guns to start shooting at their best

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Definitely by now I have surpassed the 500 round mark... and loving it. :)

Thanks for your advice! Also, the FMJ vs coated - thank you for that tidbit. Also, the ammo thing. I initially tried out CCI and then bought a bucket of Remington. Wow, Remington is filthy, filthy, filthy compared to CCI! Well, I'm stuck with it, and it is teaching me to clean much better, so there's an upside. But I'm not buying Remington 22 ammo again.

I bookmarked that trigger mod for a future buy. I almost did the Ruger 10/22 as it was a close choice for me between that and the 597. I have to admit that I am a cheapie and the price point mattered.

I will buy a bolt action rifle one day in a higher calibre. My gun course teacher had a disabled .303 British - don't know what model - and it just felt right in my hands. So I was hooked from there. The reason why I got a semi in the 22 was for teaching myself to aim over having to continually reload all the time. There will be plenty of time to get used to the bolt action on whatever rifle I buy down the road. What can I say? I just love shootin'.

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Originally Posted by GrouseWhisperer

PM me if you'd like a few suggestions on a scope, and don't rule-out used.

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Yes, sir. Will do.

It is this kind of advice and telling of personal experience that is a gold mine. That's primarily what I came here for. So, from the bottom of my heart, GrouseWhisperer, a solid thank you!

For shooting don't worry about where you are hitting relative to where you are aiming. Work on your grouping. Shoot 10 shot groups and try to get them all touching. Once you have the grouping down then worry about where you are hitting on the target. Shooting is all about consistency. Accuracy vs precision. I always work on precision first.

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Originally Posted by Useless

For shooting don't worry about where you are hitting relative to where you are aiming. Work on your grouping. Shoot 10 shot groups and try to get them all touching. Once you have the grouping down then worry about where you are hitting on the target. Shooting is all about consistency. Accuracy vs precision. I always work on accuracy first.

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Based on the advice you provided in your post, you suggest working on precision first, then accuracy.

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Originally Posted by rf2

Based on the advice you provided in your post, you suggest working on precision first, then accuracy.

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Oops. Fixed. Thanks!

[QUOTE=Noseyarentcha;1009078]

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Originally Posted by seabast

I did not say that I am unable to determine if a gun is loaded or not, nor did I say that a gun has the potential to always be loaded.

I simply said that I think looking down the barrel is nuts and scary as hell!

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Try growing up in a firearms safe family environment, and then joining the army where you're now pointing a rifle ( unloaded) at other members as part of your training.....

To the OP.

Lots of good advice.

1. Semi's are often fickle beasts, particularly since .22 semis are recoil operated, and not gas. Using some ammunition will cycle well at first, and some won't cycle at all ( like most target grade, subsonic).

2. High velocity ammo will cycle just fine, however high velocity .22 ammo can often produce flyers and inconsistencies based on ammo type, and barrel heat. Find a decent ammo like CCI, and get some practicing in, leaving time in between shots to keep temp of the barrel somewhat consistent.

3. Plated or washed ammo vs. regular lead, shouldn't matter much, unless the chamber opening is fairly tight for tolerance. This may just be a matter of break in, much like the bolt return spring.

4. Shoot often, shoot lots. Start on a bench with a lead sled or rest, to make sure the rifle is doing its job. Then start shooting from different positions to develop muscle memory, so you can do yours.

Thanks to everyone who has given me advice. It is very much appreciated and I will take it all into heart.