Fed Issue #50 - Canada to buy USED fighter jets........

Well for #50 we have the Liberal's failing our men and women in uniform again ....

They now want to buy USED fighter jets from Australia, they won't buy from Boeing because of their complaint against Bombardier... Energy East would be done and subsidized (with no Saudi Oil coming in) if it was just owned by Bombardier it seems....



http://nationalpost.com/news/politic...from-australia
Canada takes first official step to buying used fighter jets from Australia

The Canadian government has now submitted a formal expression of interest to Australia to acquire the aircraft, Public Services and Procurement Canada confirmed.

Canada began discussions in late August with the Australian government to assess the potential purchase of used F/A-18 fighter aircraft from that country




...
http://nationalpost.com/opinion/im-a...caf-capability
I'm worried about Canada's air force capability

Admiral Gortney: Some have called for the purchase of used legacy Hornets to address the RCAF's capability gap. This could pose problems down the road



An earlier article from CBC before the announcement ... they wanted to buy from Kuwait but they aren't for sale yet so they now want to buy the Australian ones that are even older ...


http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/boei...agon-1.4311860
The problem, according to Sajjan, is that the Kuwait jets are not on the market yet.

"They're not currently available, but we still want to pursue every single option," he said.

National Defence has also looked at used Australian FA-18s, which include older A and B models, similar to the ones Canada began flying in the 1980s.

That's typical for Liberals. Remember the old subs the Chretien Liberals bought? Three out of the four either burnt or sank. The one that stayed afloat turned out be a "training" vessel that rarely went to sea. What a joke.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

That's typical for Liberals. Remember the old subs the Chretien Liberals bought? Three out of the four either burnt or sank. The one that stayed afloat turned out be a "training" vessel that rarely went to sea. What a joke.

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That's how the libs save us money LOL

I'm glad we didn't get those F-35's, they're junk.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bonkers

I'm glad we didn't get those F-35's, they're junk.

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That's hard to imagine at $50M a copy. I wish someone in government,any government would grow a pair and set up our businesses to build our own.

The Liberal's bought used subs that so far as we know the only casualties have been to our own sailors.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...mand-1.1270576

They couldn't fire the torpedoes Canada has and have needed non ending retrofits and repairs, one of the few things I fault the Conservatives for was not scrapping them for no other reason than the safety of the crews on them.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...8/?arc404=true

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...8/?arc404=true
Canada's navy plans to spend about $120 million to upgrade 36 torpedoes, but they still won't work in its four submarines without further refits, CBC News has learned.
The navy has MK-48 American torpedoes in stock, but the four British-built submarines aren't capable of firing them.
Even after the weapons are converted, Canada would still have to spend millions more to refit the submarines to fire them.



The F-35 has stealth but the costs look to be over $70M and to protect Bombardier the Liberals will do anything but going with used Hornets is just nuts and an insult to our military and to Canada. Even given their protectionist B.S. there are alternatives in the market like the Rafael or Gripen, the Gripen being a viable alternative in my opinion.
http://www.janes.com/article/73993/d...ipen-aggressor

Justin said if the used Jets do not work out that they can be eventually sold again to one of the many countries he has already given millions to or to a local Carnival. He made it clear that is why the Canadian people voted him in and not the Conservatives .

The Super hornets and Euro fighters are far better then the F-35's. Russia's new jet are even better then it. The 35's have a small payload, limited patrol time of 4 hours of flight, the engines do not do well in cold and dusty climates, they're lightening prone, the software need constant maintenance. last report I read from the pentagon they named 215 issues that still need to be addressed

Used and abused, the only reason anyone or for this matter a country gets rid of old aircraft or anything, there comes a time when it's cheaper to buy a new one, then to maintain an old one. Yup, we're saving this country millions. NOT!

We should be building our own. We used to be pretty good at it.!!!

Think liberals - submarines- helicopters- and now used outdated jets. Nothing new here. Trudeau cares nothing about the safety of our troops.

It's official
http://nationalpost.com/news/politic...n-jets-sources

Contempt for Canada's military by the LIEbrals knows no bottom!





http://nationalpost.com/news/politic...n-jets-sources
Buying old F-18 jets is a bad idea. It just makes our existing problem worse

Older models of the F-18 are simply tapped out. Their air frames are fatigued. They are increasingly expensive to operate. Why would we buy more of these?

Just disgusting. Government protectionism of one Canadian company has to freaking stop. Keeping sub-par planes will only get service-people killed. Do the people in Ottawa making these decisions (and I can only assume it is the same person/people as we keeping doing this) not understand that our armed forces aren't the enemy and if they do, why are they treating them like it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

Just disgusting. Government protectionism of one Canadian company has to freaking stop. Keeping sub-par planes will only get service-people killed. Do the people in Ottawa making these decisions (and I can only assume it is the same person/people as we keeping doing this) not understand that our armed forces aren't the enemy and if they do, why are they treating them like it?

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Dyth,
There is a book titled "CANADA'S MILITARY " under the Trudeau Years ' our present day Trudopes father.
It really shows you how much disdain old Pierre Elliot and the Liberal Party has for our Military.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaycee

Dyth,
There is a book titled "CANADA'S MILITARY " under the Trudeau Years ' our present day Trudopes father.
It really shows you how much disdain old Pierre Elliot and the Liberal Party has for our Military.

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The old man was a draft dodger in WW2. He weasled his way out of having to go stand beside his fellow Canadian troops who were desparate for reinforcements. Junior gets it honestly I guess?

You do realize that JT is actually Fidel Castro's son not PET right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bushmoose

The old man was a draft dodger in WW2. He weasled his way out of having to go stand beside his fellow Canadian troops who were desparate for reinforcements. Junior gets it honestly I guess?

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Why? Was Castro a dodger too ???

Hahahaha ^^^^^


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by terrym

You do realize that JT is actually Fidel Castro's son not PET right?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Why? Was Castro a dodger too ???

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Sorry fellas. Guess my phone was acting up? Won't happen again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by terrym

You do realize that JT is actually Fidel Castro's son not PET right?

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I guess Maggie had her moments!

Listen to Justlied .... Justin Trudeau lying in parliament AGAIN.... Australia is buying the F-35's to replace these used pieces of s***.... all to protect Bombardier ... a PRIVATE QUEBEC millionaires company.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle37303772/

Brian Lilley talking about this.

https://www.facebook.com/brianlilley...7806637619718/

I wonder if Justin would like to buy some used Chevy Chevettes or Celebrity or Jeep Wagoneers .... I am sure there are some in the junkyards somewhere. Just thinking back ..... I used my first PC in the 1980's .... green screen and 32K of memory ..... I used NetNorth later in the 80's ..... later added to the International Computing Network ... now just called the Internet..... and Justin's supposed daddy was the PM....
https://www.timetoast.com/timelines/...n-the-1980s--3

The contempt and stupidity of this and the UN deal are off the scale!!!


P.S.
Al Linder just was on and was talking about this book.
Tears of a Warrior
http://www.tearsofawarrior.com/
"
Combat Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) is the silent bullet you never hear."

So,because our jets are old and decrepit and at the end of any possible upgrade possibility,Trudeau wants to buy Australian jets that are old and decrepit and beyond any possible up grade potential. Jeeses H.Chryst,not even the most whacked,drug addled Hollywood script writer could come up with a story line like that and Liberal voters in three ridings still vote for the idiots. It must be true that you really can't fix STUPID.

A) Getting ready for 2019 for the Liberal's and the discussion on used jets?
B) Not living in the real world?
C) Has a point, let's turn tanks into tractors and plows?
D) Both A and B


We’ve given up on Canada’s military, so let’s abandon it altogether
We could save billions we’d otherwise spend on duct tape for our fleets and squadrons. We could keep some soldiers for disaster response—but they don’t need guns
http://www.macleans.ca/politics/otta...it-altogether/

So, why don’t we just own it and admit the truth, as painful as it is: We do not have a functional military, and that’s the way we want it. Let’s implement this new “enlightened policy” by shutting down the Canadian Forces and declaring ourselves a post-military nation. We could join the ranks of Haiti, Andorra, and Vanuatu.


I say D.

I won't create a new thread for this..... the Liberal insult to Canadian service men and women is already off the scale, adding a new thread won't change that.



Canada skips ceremony for soldier who wrote In Flanders Fields
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...landers-fields
On the cold, windy afternoon in northern France, about two dozen visitors stood as a French band played O Canada, and the French town supplied a Canadian flag. French veterans stood with their banners.

The town council of Wimereux laid a wreath. So did the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. So did one visitor from Britain.

Genevra Charsley, the British woman who brought her own poppy wreath to lay, said she’s upset at Canada’s absence. She said she asked Veterans Affairs last year whether it was planning a 100th anniversary event, as it is responsible for ceremonies at battlefields and other historic military sites in France.
....
her opinion of our politicians and Veterans affairs is a bit pointed....

"They all wear poppies, and in my mind I’m sorry, but they are not worthy of wearing those poppies. … Absolutely disgusting.”

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mosquito

I won't create a new thread for this..... the Liberal insult to Canadian service men and women is already off the scale, adding a new thread won't change that.



Canada skips ceremony for soldier who wrote In Flanders Fields
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...landers-fields
On the cold, windy afternoon in northern France, about two dozen visitors stood as a French band played O Canada, and the French town supplied a Canadian flag. French veterans stood with their banners.

The town council of Wimereux laid a wreath. So did the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. So did one visitor from Britain.

Genevra Charsley, the British woman who brought her own poppy wreath to lay, said she’s upset at Canada’s absence. She said she asked Veterans Affairs last year whether it was planning a 100th anniversary event, as it is responsible for ceremonies at battlefields and other historic military sites in France.
....
her opinion of our politicians and Veterans affairs is a bit pointed....

"They all wear poppies, and in my mind I’m sorry, but they are not worthy of wearing those poppies. … Absolutely disgusting.”

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An intelligent lady like her should be invited to address Parliament. Those Liberal a**holes need to hear that,first hand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mosquito

A) Getting ready for 2019 for the Liberal's and the discussion on used jets?
B) Not living in the real world?
C) Has a point, let's turn tanks into tractors and plows?
D) Both A and B


We’ve given up on Canada’s military, so let’s abandon it altogether
We could save billions we’d otherwise spend on duct tape for our fleets and squadrons. We could keep some soldiers for disaster response—but they don’t need guns
http://www.macleans.ca/politics/otta...it-altogether/

So, why don’t we just own it and admit the truth, as painful as it is: We do not have a functional military, and that’s the way we want it. Let’s implement this new “enlightened policy” by shutting down the Canadian Forces and declaring ourselves a post-military nation. We could join the ranks of Haiti, Andorra, and Vanuatu.


I say D.

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That article was a very disappointing read, both to our armed forces staff and to us as a country, within that Maclean's article there was a link to an even more depressing article about the state of our navy.

Trump has every right to call us out on the sad state of our military procurement and readiness. While Russia (and now China?) are building a capable ice-breaking fleet and preparing to challenge our sovereignty in the north, our naval procurement strategy seems focused on avoiding conflict with the Irvings (read up on the Mark Norman affair) . Unfortunately we expected this from Liberals but it didn't seem like the Conservatives did anything meaningful either.

OK..... when you hear Justin's response as to why the gov't is fighting against veteran's after what the veteran has to say and not realize that Justlied is a ****** f******** sh**h*** lying bas*****piece of ****** and the Liberal party is unfit to run a latrine..... you are a ****also censored ******
https://www.facebook.com/OntarioProu...4495355828564/

If you have anyone with a veteran or knows a vet etc. Pass it on! Used jets, insulting, the other shi* they have done pathetic etc. but that reply..... he should be ran our of Canada on the first leaky boat to China or Syria!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mosquito

OK..... when you hear Justin's response as to why the gov't is fighting against veteran's after what the veteran has to say and not realize that Justlied is a ****** f******** sh**h*** lying bas*****piece of ****** and the Liberal party is unfit to run a latrine..... you are a ****also censored ******
https://www.facebook.com/OntarioProu...4495355828564/

If you have anyone with a veteran or knows a vet etc. Pass it on! Used jets, insulting, the other shi* they have done pathetic etc. but that reply..... he should be ran our of Canada on the first leaky boat to China or Syria!

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Amen to that.

As far as the used jets it's not as bad of thing as some are portraying.
Not as a long time solution but as a stop gap solution.
Uses the same training & logistic stream already in existence.
Will keep the current fleet going for a few more years.
Changing a figher jet platform is not nearly as simple as changing from GM to Ford.
BTW I am a vet.

Woodsman, you make to much sense for mosq. be prepared.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodsman

As far as the used jets it's not as bad of thing as some are portraying.
Not as a long time solution but as a stop gap solution.
Uses the same training & logistic stream already in existence.
Will keep the current fleet going for a few more years.
Changing a figher jet platform is not nearly as simple as changing from GM to Ford.
BTW I am a vet.

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How much sense does it make to spend millions on old jets as a "stop-gap",then,spend more money on new equipment later on? Why not make a damn decision,cut to the chase and buy new ones ONCE instead of simply blowing good money on old crap? Only Liberals could come up with such a useless policy to waste more taxpayer dollars. Dithering is the watch word for Liberals. They couldn't make a decision to save their souls unless it was to bring in more unvetted immigrants,approve (in principle) Islamic sharia law,raise taxes at every turn,kowtow to political correctness and special interests,I could go on forever with these idiots. Thank God there's an election coming next year.

It is all about the LIEbral's contempt and I would say even hatred of the military, when you hear Justlin's response to the soldier who lost a limb it moved Justlied to the "human trash" category in my book.:mad::mad::mad: He kind us sums it up where Justlied is WILLING to spend money!
https://www.facebook.com/PatrioticDa...4026853462647/

The jet's will serve us as well as the used subs did (years of repairs and not working, killed a sailor before they even got to Canada, hundreds of millions in repairs but still not working etc. They have had some upgrades but you can upgrade an AMC Pacer or Chevy Chevette too (built about the same time) but remember these are 30+ year old air frames with metal stresses and wear. If the Liebral's goal is to have them sit on the ground and be show pieces for their incompetence then fine, just never put a pilot in them in actual combat. Engine rebuilds, checks and repairs from metal stress, frame repairs, electronics upgrade and the unknowns (think subs that couldn't fire torpedoes for a decade after we got them) and we have a disaster and funerals to expect. Just look at when the Liberal's sent the troops to Afghanistan, jungle camo, light armoured vehicles and no tanks, assigned to Khandahar.... many of the trips down the Highway of Heroes can be directly attributed to their decisions. As for the used jets.... still can't believe the idiocy of it... the whole fiasco is continuing downhill and took this step around the protection of a Quebec company that receives huge grants and then gives their management huge bonuses.... any more Bombardier's success isn't in the air it is in the back rooms and government hand outs.

This used deal also will shut Canada not only out of the F-35 program, which seems to be doing well now it is actually flying, and out of further deals with Boeing, so essentially sitting on grenade after the pin is pulled so you don't see it go off. Justlied and the current Liebral's have made the disasters of the PET (with it's womanizing, scandals, waste and huge gov't policies) era look he is trying to do the even worse to destroy Canada's future! Just look at their also selling off a military tech company to China... but of course the Trudeau foundation got a huge donation .....

Dec 12 , 2012. 'The federal Conservative government has formally pushed "reset" on its search for a new fighter jet'. The jet they cancelled was ...wait for it............ the Lockheed Martin F-35s.......

..... and shall you enlighten us to WHAT they should have done will waiting to see if the F-35 was going to keep changing prices and be a viable plane? They were in the program and it was being developed and built... but there were reports I went back and found that include little gems like ....

"In August 2014 Industry Canada released a report that showed that 32 Canadian companies had received US$587M in contracts for work on the F-35 program"

We can safely say there will be no more contracts for Canada of any significant amount, say half a billion dollar flush!

Yup Canada did not get F-35s that were cancelled by the cons, 3 years later libs in power... now it is their fault we do not have F-35 jets...LOL

What is there, about 36 million people in Canada? If our military were kitted out with the best gear known to man, a small Asian country could still take us armed with sticks. The US could fart and we'd all be dead.

We only really have a military because its a "thing countries do".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Yup Canada did not get F-35s that were cancelled by the cons, 3 years later libs in power... now it is their fault we do not have F-35 jets...LOL

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You really can't face reality can you .....


1) As of May 2017 Canada was still making payments $30,000,000 USD to stay IN.....
http://www.janes.com/article/70906/c...n-f-35-partner
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/f-35...-fee-1.4131285


And when it is finally cancelled by the liebrals then it is the hundreds of millions in cancellations and killed jobs that Trudeau is responsible for
http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/col...anada-grounded

Right now Trudeau is trying to open a competition .....uh ummm .... when in reality for Canada there are two choices.... uhhh ummmm and he uhhhh can't choose one because a Quebec company is threatened .... he must protect that regardless ... uh... so um ahhh..... the idiot that thinks vet's don't deserve support, only millions to terrorists and green projects and that used jets are OK..... why am I wasting my time trying to teach you reality.


Have a good day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

How much sense does it make to spend millions on old jets as a "stop-gap",then,spend more money on new equipment later on?

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And how long before an order is placed and we receive new jets and they are up & operational?
Far longer than we can wait.
Calls for a new logistics stream. And a complete new training syllabus for pilots and maintenance crews.
This take many years to complete.
The initial wait for the new jets could easily be 5 years.Not nearly as easy as you walking into a car dealership & saying "I'll take that new 2018 model".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodsman

And how long before an order is placed and we receive new jets and they are up & operational?
Far longer than we can wait.
Calls for a new logistics stream. And a complete new training syllabus for pilots and maintenance crews.
This take many years to complete.
The initial wait for the new jets could easily be 5 years.Not nearly as easy as you walking into a car dealership & saying "I'll take that new 2018 model".

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No but stop-gap measures aren't a solution either. They never have been. In the mid 80's, it was deemed the Sea King helicopters were too small for anti-sub warfare. Liberals cancelled it and then dragged their heels on getting a replacement despite several Sea King crashes. Anyone care to bet the airmen involved weren't related to anyone high up in the Liberal party?

We had a replacement ready jet to go. Then the Liberals cancelled it and wanted to bridge the gap between the CF-18 and the new fighter with the Super Hornet. Seems they flogged the Conservatives over sole sourcing despite doing just that with the Super Hornet. Then Boeing complains to the government about government handouts to Bombardier. When that happens, the Prime Minister decides to take his ball and go home. That is not how the country's national defense is to be treated. I don't see Trudeau lining up to hop in the CF-18 to prove to Canadians that the jet is safe. If history is a teacher of lessons, then the Liberal strategy will be to drag their heels on this matter without making any big decisions. Someone will be paying a price for this with their life.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodsman

And how long before an order is placed and we receive new jets and they are up & operational?
Far longer than we can wait.
Calls for a new logistics stream. And a complete new training syllabus for pilots and maintenance crews.
This take many years to complete.
The initial wait for the new jets could easily be 5 years.Not nearly as easy as you walking into a car dealership & saying "I'll take that new 2018 model".

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There's too much screwin' around with playing politics with US firms,especially,in light of the current trade dispute going on between Bombardier and Boeing (even though we've won initially,the show ain't over til the fat lady sings). The Americans aren't the only game in town and they're the ones threatening to trash NAFTA. Unless we're legally bound by NAFTA to use American sources (and I'm fairly sure we're not) ,exclusively,French,British and Swedish corporations would fall all over themselves to obtain an order from us with products as good as,if not better than,Boeing or Lockheed-Martin. I would venture to say that any "lead time" would be minimal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I would venture to say that any "lead time" would be minimal.

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And you base this opinion on what?
Have you been involved with the military trials and procurement process?
I was involved with the small arms conversion trials in 1980.
It was 1988 before the roll out started and took over 2 years for all to be converted.
And this would be far less of a process than change than a fighter platform.

Let's try a few facts....

The original plan was to take the first 4 in 2017 and have a squadron in the air in 2018, that got pushed back 12 months then they cancelled delivery, we are still in the program and no matter how it is spun the F-35 is still in the competition.

Justlied told the vet that they were asking too much... yet he has money for every idiotic green project, terrorists, foreign governments etc. in the tune of billions.... pictures speak best...
https://scontent.fybz1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...82&oe=5ADF41DE

They are delivering a finished and tested product, it will be flight tested of course but to use the small arm analogy is like opening the box, checking it and test firing it and handing it off the to the grunt. It is (to use the Prime Minister's style) "the uh .... um... uhhhhh .... um should we um....... buy this um.... but it might threaten Bombardier uh... somehow... and um uh....... we will make a decision.... um.... uh .... when we make a decision" type of political decision making that is killing the Canadian timeline and we see the "competition" (which the F-35 is still part of) that delay, stalled and muddled.

My point is simple.
If we chose a new fighter platform today how long would it take to be in place at the squadron level?
First off a contract would have to be negotiated.
Would we jump to the front of the line delivery wise. Not likely.
How long to upgrade our technicians (airframe, avionics, safety systems and weapons) to the new equipment? Again it would also include time waiting on the planes to arrive to give them experience with the platform.
Time to select and source flight simulators also has to be factored in.
How long for our pilots to transition in to the new platform. Again we would need planes and simulators first before getting to this.
For both the technicians & pilots we would also have to train the trainers first.
None of this can even begin to start until the platform is selected.
How long before the logistical system would be ready to support the new planes? Again this would take time.
So yes lead time wouldn't be minimal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mosquito

but to use the small arm analogy is like opening the box, checking it and test firing it and handing it off the to the grunt.

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If the procurement process for the small arms replacement was even close to that simple and for an airframe it would be even more complex.
Some things you missed in the small arms competitions like the trials of different types, identifying Canadian modifications and having them engineered, negotiating the contracts, training the trainers,training the weapon technicians, training the users and creating a logistical system to support the new equipment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodsman

My point is simple.
If we chose a new fighter platform today how long would it take to be in place at the squadron level?
First off a contract would have to be negotiated.
Would we jump to the front of the line delivery wise. Not likely.
How long to upgrade our technicians (airframe, avionics, safety systems and weapons) to the new equipment? Again it would also include time waiting on the planes to arrive to give them experience with the platform.
Time to select and source flight simulators also has to be factored in.
How long for our pilots to transition in to the new platform. Again we would need planes and simulators first before getting to this.
For both the technicians & pilots we would also have to train the trainers first.
None of this can even begin to start until the platform is selected.
How long before the logistical system would be ready to support the new planes? Again this would take time.
So yes lead time wouldn't be minimal.

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With such a top-heavy bureaucracy,maybe,we should just cut to the chase and contract the entire defense department out to the US. Enough of the Liberal BS.

trimmer this has being going on for years and definately has not been limited to the Liberals.
Of the three major parties the only one that can't be accused of it is the NDP but only because they have never had the chance to do so.

CAE already has the Flight Sim for a couple years now on the F-35
https://globalnews.ca/news/1177142/f...r-company-cae/

https://militarysimulation.training/...-lightning-ii/
In 2013, an alliance between prime contractor Lockheed Martin and CAE was announced –hedging that Canada will elect to buy F-35s. The resulting Memorandum of Understanding addresses F-35 Lightning II training system support and services in Canada – with CAE designated as a preferred provider of in-country F-35 training support, training system integration, operations and maintenance.


We already were at the top of the line and then moved out, the impact of reentry????


We still are in the program... for now... so atleast we haven't had to payout the $313,000,000 USD ... yet.
http://nationalpost.com/news/politic...documents-show

and those used jets.... well they are available because Australia is buying the F-35...
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...93c31998d58392

I wonder how the uh... um Lib uh maybe... non decisions are affection future work in Canada....
https://www.f35.com/global/participation/canada

Lockheed Martin has a strong partnership with Canadian industry, providing supply chain contracts to more than 1,400 Canadian companies and billions of dollars in awarded contracts across all lines of business.

Canada's participation in the Joint Strike Fighter Program began in 1997, allowing the nation to be a part of the selection of the fighter aircraft that will recapitalize three U.S. fighter fleets as well as numerous allied countries. Domestic industry continues to benefit from the development of the F-35 through the localized establishment of advanced manufacturing technologies. Learn more about the Canadian companies contributing to the F-35 program.

https://www.f35.com/global/news/canada-news

https://www.f35.com/global/participa...-participation
Canadian industry has more than $1 billion in industrial opportunities already contracted for the F-35 Lightning II program – more than double Canada’s current investment in the F-35. Canadian companies have played a large part in the development and production of the F-35, resulting in hundreds of Canadian jobs. And the program will continue to bring manufacturing and production opportunities to Canada, with an estimated 50,000 jobs created over the life of the program.


P.S.
Love the flight SIM!!!
https://www.f35.com/media/videos-det...tor-is-awesome


P.S.S.
no point in a new post... .... and contrary to those that are completely uninformed about the computer and aeronautics industry I did read them but you don't seem to understand so no point in arguing.

mosquito did you even read your links?
Canada has not bought any simulators but did invest in a simulator manufacturer.
That link is almost 4 years old.
Do you know for a fact they have developed/produced an operational simulator for the F 35 that is assuming that is the platform chosen. Or maybe one of the other platforms that may be considered?
How could they develope a simulator for a Canadian verision without knowing what Canadians will require if purchased?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodsman

trimmer this has being going on for years and definately has not been limited to the Liberals.
Of the three major parties the only one that can't be accused of it is the NDP but only because they have never had the chance to do so.

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Thank God for small mercies. Could you just imagine where Canada would be if those morons ever got their hands on us? :whacked:

Further left than Liberals or even the NDP is the Communists.
They have a good record of supporting the military.
Food for thought.

Oh Oh , I see an avalanche of cut and paste coming up, LOL.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodsman

Further left than Liberals or even the NDP is the Communists.
They have a good record of supporting the military.
Food for thought.

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They also have a reputation for directing their military against the civilian population that don't happen to genuflect and grovel or toe the party line,after they disarm the citizenry so they can't fight back which sure sounds familiar to me. The Communist Party of Canada and Marxist/Leninists are closer to the NeeDeePers than they let on.

Oh yeah..... Communists treated the military so well..... shooting about 15,000 of their own at Stalingrad and only giving every 5th or so an actual rifle. My dad had a friend that had immigrated to Canada and had served for Germany on the Eastern front, he said most had sticks or boards and they just machine gunned them down, but if they turned back they were also shot. I've also read how those shot retreating had their families sent to Siberia. Then we can see Cuba sending it's mercenaries all over the world to die for the glory of the Stalinist world goal.... thousands killed/raped etc. by them all over Central and South America and Africa.

They have been treated ok at times but Afghanistan didn't work out for them so well but Crimea and Georgia went well but Ukraine is a bit of a sticking issue but in Syria their protection of their interests seems to be ok so their treatment this century seems ok but yes of course it is a priority. Just look at China and how it is building new military bases in contested areas, funding new jets (designs copied from US and European) carriers and new tech copied from the world .... but actually since Canada sold them one of the military techs they didn't have they can make their own new tech too now probably.... the military of course is important to the Communists, it is the back bone of their staying in power, you have to keep them happy so you can have them run over hundreds (or thousands) pesky students wanting freedoms.

Canada on the other hand goes to the junk yards of the world and buys used when the Liberal's are in power and insults them to their faces..... I like the new tags I see on twitter ..... #NoLibs2018 and for Canada #NoLibs2019

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodsman

My point is simple.
If we chose a new fighter platform today how long would it take to be in place at the squadron level?
First off a contract would have to be negotiated.
Would we jump to the front of the line delivery wise. Not likely.
How long to upgrade our technicians (airframe, avionics, safety systems and weapons) to the new equipment? Again it would also include time waiting on the planes to arrive to give them experience with the platform.
Time to select and source flight simulators also has to be factored in.
How long for our pilots to transition in to the new platform. Again we would need planes and simulators first before getting to this.
For both the technicians & pilots we would also have to train the trainers first.
None of this can even begin to start until the platform is selected.
How long before the logistical system would be ready to support the new planes? Again this would take time.
So yes lead time wouldn't be minimal.

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Based on the CF-18 replacement of the CF-101 and CF-104, Canada could get a new fighter jet in 5 years from beginning the competition to accepting the first jet at a squad level. It was 3 years to make a decision and then 2 years to take delivery which would account for training pilots and ground crews.

Now, the Liberals have given us a timeline of awarding a contract in 2019 and new delievery in 2025. The Liberals should be awarding a contract later this year rather than holding off until 2019 (possibly after the election). The jets need to be delivered faster than 6 years (and yes, it can happen as Lockheed-Martin retooled their F-35 plant to increase production back in 2016 to hit full production in 2019). While the Conservatives definitely bungled the tender process, at least they made a decision to initially purchase the F-35 while the Liberals have decided to drag their heels on procurement of military hardware once again. Both parties have flipped on whether they would purchase the F-35 (the cons when it came out that a slight majority of Canadians didn't want to purchase the jet and then the Liberals when they stated they wouldn't purchase the jet as part of their platform only to state that the F-35 could be considered in the tender process).

I wish our politicians would take the Australian approach to national defense. The Aussies don't bring partisan politics into making decisions about keeping their country safe. All parties are on the same page when it comes to national defense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

Based on the CF-18 replacement of the CF-101 and CF-104, Canada could get a new fighter jet in 5 years from beginning the competition to accepting the first jet at a squad level. It was 3 years to make a decision and then 2 years to take delivery which would account for training pilots and ground crews.

Now, the Liberals have given us a timeline of awarding a contract in 2019 and new delievery in 2025. The Liberals should be awarding a contract later this year rather than holding off until 2019 (possibly after the election). The jets need to be delivered faster than 6 years (and yes, it can happen as Lockheed-Martin retooled their F-35 plant to increase production back in 2016 to hit full production in 2019). While the Conservatives definitely bungled the tender process, at least they made a decision to initially purchase the F-35 while the Liberals have decided to drag their heels on procurement of military hardware once again. Both parties have flipped on whether they would purchase the F-35 (the cons when it came out that a slight majority of Canadians didn't want to purchase the jet and then the Liberals when they stated they wouldn't purchase the jet as part of their platform only to state that the F-35 could be considered in the tender process).

I wish our politicians would take the Australian approach to national defense. The Aussies don't bring partisan politics into making decisions about keeping their country safe. All parties are on the same page when it comes to national defense.

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During the early times of WW2,Australia was in very real danger of invasion by Japanese forces. There's nothing like staring down the business end of enemy rifles to get ones attention.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

During the early times of WW2,Australia was in very real danger of invasion by Japanese forces. There's nothing like staring down the business end of enemy rifles to get ones attention.

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It is also the common sense approach Aussies have to life. They don't beat around the bush. They get straight to the point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

It is also the common sense approach Aussies have to life. They don't beat around the bush. They get straight to the point.

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Like their gun ban?..... Sorry their 'selective', gun ban.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Like their gun ban?..... Sorry their 'selective', gun ban.

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Nope,not one shred of common sense with that one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Like their gun ban?..... Sorry their 'selective', gun ban.

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I happen to know a good number of Aussies and all of them hate their gun control laws.

Just an update on jets, probably lots of travel and expensive dinners more than anything.

http://www.janes.com/article/78171/c...er-competition
The Canadian government said eligible suppliers for its future fighter programme are the United States’ Boeing and Lockheed Martin, the United Kingdom’s Airbus Defence and Space, Sweden’s Saab, and France’s Dassault.

Sweden is in there, a good choice but I wonder... with a population 1/3 that of Canada's...... we brag about Canada's advantages and tech, yet when the rubber meets the road you end up with maple syrup, Crown Whiskey, timbits, selling raw resources and comic relief in the PM office. Over the protests of allies they sell military tech companies to China (and anything else they want), we fund Bombardier but don't have enough for vets.... and water pollution and clean water on reserves .....

.... kinds speaks for itself so no comment about traitors etc. from me today....



Canada at risk of becoming garbage pickers of the world
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/don-...orld-1.4112469
Our jet fighter capability gap, deemed so urgent we were warned Canada’s NATO and NORAD obligations were at risk, is being filled with 25 jets designated surplus by the Australian air force. They’re already so old that seven of these F-18s will be bought for parts.

Now this: A 20-year-old drone prototype deemed unsafe to fly in Europe – a rather major impediment to successful drone deployments – is being considered for Canadian purchase.

To be fair, there may be a need for a drone to replace the two piloted planes now patrolling our coastlines on the lookout for everything from oil slicks to polar bears.

Curiously, there’s a Canadian-made world-class satellite called Radarsat-2 parked overhead which claims environmental monitoring and marine surveillance as key objectives.

But I digress.
...
At the risk of droning on, we are a country that can’t build navy ships on time or budget, is still replacing Sea King helicopters which arrived when John F. Kennedy was U.S. president and has a government which will fail to order new fighter jets in this mandate.

On the bright side, Canada is displaying a unique skill set.

When it comes to wringing or extending the life of equipment others deem surplus, salvage or scrap, we are second to none.

That’s the Last Word.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mosquito

.... kinds speaks for itself so no comment about traitors etc. from me today....



Canada at risk of becoming garbage pickers of the world
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/don-...orld-1.4112469
Our jet fighter capability gap, deemed so urgent we were warned Canada’s NATO and NORAD obligations were at risk, is being filled with 25 jets designated surplus by the Australian air force. They’re already so old that seven of these F-18s will be bought for parts.

Now this: A 20-year-old drone prototype deemed unsafe to fly in Europe – a rather major impediment to successful drone deployments – is being considered for Canadian purchase.

To be fair, there may be a need for a drone to replace the two piloted planes now patrolling our coastlines on the lookout for everything from oil slicks to polar bears.

Curiously, there’s a Canadian-made world-class satellite called Radarsat-2 parked overhead which claims environmental monitoring and marine surveillance as key objectives.

But I digress.
...
At the risk of droning on, we are a country that can’t build navy ships on time or budget, is still replacing Sea King helicopters which arrived when John F. Kennedy was U.S. president and has a government which will fail to order new fighter jets in this mandate.

On the bright side, Canada is displaying a unique skill set.

When it comes to wringing or extending the life of equipment others deem surplus, salvage or scrap, we are second to none.

That’s the Last Word.

---

Woeful neglect of our armed forces is not a Liberal shortcoming. Conservatives have neglect The Forces when they were in power.

The first of the Aussie used jets have arrived....

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-...cold-lake.html

I wonder if they got 8-track players in the sale from Australia too or did they use the new tech of the time, cassette players .... Aussies are probably still in shock or they just too busy laughing at our idiots in charge.

It seems we'll just let everyone else carry the burden to look after our country and keep us safe... It's a shame really asking our pilots to fly someone else's junk... and putting their lives on the line, not in combat but everyday they're in the air at home...

Jungle Camo to Afghanistan and assigning them to Khandahar .... no polite comment so ....
Used Subs - 1 sailor killed before they got to Canada, years of upgrades and dry dock before they could be used.... idiotic!
Used Jets - my comment "God, please protect our pilots and men in military"

and now possibly $830,000,000 on...

Germany is looking to sell a secondhand surveillance drone that has cost the country more than 700 million euros (US$823 million) to Canada -- without many core components it needs to fly.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/germ...nada-1.4106921

"The question is what a buyer would do with such a gutted aircraft," said Thomas Wiegold, a German journalist who runs the defencewebsite Augen Geradeaus . "Without GPS navigation and in particular without flight control systems, the drone would hardly be able to fly."

Andrej Hunko, one of the Left Party lawmakers who submitted questions to the government, said the drone now only has "scrap value."

... spend, spend, spend... think about more to spend .... no thought on what do we need, does it make sense etc.

So.... what do you think? It's not made in the US or Britain (Liberal criteria it seems) and is actually a good fighter (Armed forces requirement).....

http://www.canadiandefencereview.com...ntent?blog/182

Gripens are used in several European NATO countries with quite success.

The thing with the gripen is they are willing to give us access to the source code of the software. All other fighters that is confidential and not given to us. Trust me the access to the F-18 sources code has been a huge issue over the years and cost tax payers huge.

Modern fighters are 35 percent airframe performance and 65 percent software so it’s a huge part of the pie.

Saying that we are getting the F-35 probably 20 years from now but that’s what we will end up with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If Boeing wins they won't even build the fighters in Canada... by the time they approve anything the Canadian air force might be relegated to borrowing Cessna's to have a flyable plane to use.... but Gripen is looking better.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...assembly-in-us
Boeing would perform final assembly of its F/A-18 Block III Super Hornets in the United States rather than Canada if it wins Canada’s Future Fighter Capability Project (FFCP) competition.

Jim Barnes, Boeing Defense, Space, and Security director of business development in Canada, on 27 October cited the small production run for performing final assembly in St. Louis, Missouri, where the Super Hornet is built. Canada will purchase 88 advanced fighters as part of its competition with the first aircraft anticipated for 2025. The procurement is expected to be worth USD11-14 billion

Maybe we should allow Justin to get his friends at SNC Lavalin to broker the deal and watch the $$ fly!!!

Just finished reading a book on the Avro, what a shame we went from a manufacturing major power after WW2 to where are today, buying junk from China, not just once but again and again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Just finished reading a book on the Avro, what a shame we went from a manufacturing major power after WW2 to where are today, buying junk from China, not just once but again and again.

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The Avro was the most embarrassing foreign affairs/defense boondoggle ever committed by a Conservative government. John Diefenbaker literally took his orders from Washington to trash the program. Then,to add insult to injury,the Americans poached most of our aerospace engineers for NASA.

No need to wonder why your post T 21 was the last comment by a pro conservative. Hard to argue with those facts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

No need to wonder why your post T 21 was the last comment by a pro conservative. Hard to argue with those facts.

---

Several people I used to work with were employed by A V Roe when the program was cancelled. To this very day,they'll never vote for a Conservative. Someone once posted that just because they're a member of any particular party,it doesn't mean they agree with everything they do. Actually,I think it was Gilroy.

Me as well. I do not always agree with all the policies of those I vote for. I feel that it would be impossible.

Canada has used jet that are 30 years out of date.... Arctic is melting... and Russia....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPU3BjjWHg


While Justlied has Chinese troops training in Canada and it seems his important item on his agenda is a shave and his hair dyed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

So,because our jets are old and decrepit and at the end of any possible upgrade possibility,Trudeau wants to buy Australian jets that are old and decrepit and beyond any possible up grade potential. Jeeses H.Chryst,not even the most whacked,drug addled Hollywood script writer could come up with a story line like that and Liberal voters in three ridings still vote for the idiots. It must be true that you really can't fix STUPID.

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Lets make fancy socks turdeau take the first ride!! then hit the eject button!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grumpygeezer

Lets make fancy socks turdeau take the first ride!! then hit the eject button!!

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Well, I can remember a fellow trying to commit suicide in a CF 101 inside the hangar. Ejection seats were found to be defective, so I wouldn't try that.

Remember those broken-down subs Chretien bought from the Brits that only one of which got out of dry dock? Well,now,the Liberals want to scrap them and buy newer ones. Gee,what could possibly go wrong? This story keeps getting more and more bizarre with these mutts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Remember those broken-down subs Chretien bought from the Brits that only one of which got out of dry dock? Well,now,the Liberals want to scrap them and buy newer ones. Gee,what could possibly go wrong? This story keeps getting more and more bizarre with these mutts.

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Used obsolete jets, preceded by used obsolete submarines and vets ask too much .... do I see a Liberal trend here?

Last I saw only 1 was capable of firing a torpedo and atleast 2 were in long term dry dock for work....

Any of the German, Swedish or Japanese subs bought new would have worked off the shelf.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9ou6FZdahI

https://thedailycanada.com/royal-can...bmarine-fleet/
Questions about the costs and benefits of submarines have circulated since Canada bought four second-hand vessels from Britain in 1998. The government at that time argued it was getting a bargain by paying only $750 million for the four Victoria-class vessels.

Yet the vessels have since spent more time in dock for repairs and maintenance than at sea, with Ottawa sinking billions of dollars into the fleet over the past 20-plus years to address a series of problems and incidents including fires and faulty welding.

The most recent incident saw HMCS Corner Brook suffer what may have been permanent damage last year after an errant test damaged the submarine’s main ballast tank. Corner Brook previously ran aground in 2011, while a fire broke out on board in 2019.

The Defence Department has also pegged the cost of maintaining and operating the Victoria-class submarines at around $300 million per year.




https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...risk-1.1334667
The report provides a scathing account of the "inferior vessels" since the first sub, HMCS Victoria, entered service in the Canadian navy in 2000.
...
While in service with the British navy for four years, the subs spent 1,077 days at sea. But after 13 years in service with the Canadian navy, the boats have spent only 783 days patrolling, the report said.
...
"The best-before date of Canada's Victoria-class is approaching, perhaps as soon as 2023,'' warns the report.


783 days in 13 years .... that works out to 15 days a year per sub or 60 days if the 783 is each.... 2 functional 2 months out of 12 or more likely based on the usage of the word "boats", implying total 2 weeks out of 52 weeks by. Hmmmm.... if you want to be in the Canadian Navy and always be at home port maybe a submariner is for you.




I wonder if there is any data available on the jets actual usage....

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/natio...ally-for-rcaf/
Eighteen of the 25 will eventually be flying, while the other seven will be used for spare parts and testing.

So 8 of the jets will fly 160 hours a year.... out of 25 purchased. :whacked:

Private individual buys and has 3X the jets bought working that Canada bought. Canada expected to get 8 (instead of their originally intended 18) working and the rest for parts.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/t...=pocket-newtab


Canada had bought 25 prior to this deal going through. The jets Air USA is slated to receive, 46 in total, of which 36 are flying today, will be replaced by the F-35A Joint Strike Fighter within the RAAF’s ranks and thus will be totally retired from service by the end of 2021.




Canadian Auditors Slam Surplus Aussie Hornet Buy, Describe Fighter Force In Collapse
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ce-in-collapse



But if we had stayed in the program we WERE scheduled to start getting the F-35's soon, no idea when the AMC Gremlin era jets will be replaced now, possibly another decade?

Canada selects F-35 as future fighter
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...future-fighter

Reference post #72.