Printable View
I own land in WMU 65 and close by there is theses wooded lots. neighbors said it was crown land. I went to the town office and found one was labeled as Provence of Ontario Infrastructure the other as OPG. I assume the first is crown land? OPG i'm not sure about its rules.
any info would be appreciated.
You could have probably had those answered at the Township Office....:)
No they didn't have that answer to my question
I guess the township considers it a private land....I see OPG doesn't usually allow hunting on their properties:
.Quote:
With fall hunting season already underway in many parts of the province -and deer season beginning in southern Ontario Monday -Ontario Power Generation is cautioning hunters to stay off their properties for safety reasons.
According to OPG, trespassers have ignored barriers and signs and entered Aguasabon and Hayes Lake facilities near Thunder Bay.
"People who do so are putting themselves and OPG staff at risk," said John Murphy, executive vice-president hydro.
"We have employees working at our stations -they aren't expecting hunting to take place on our sites and we're very concerned for their safety."
Water levels near hydro facilities can change quickly and dramatically as well, the OPG warns.
OPG spokesman Ted Gruetzner said the utility has about 69 dams across the province, many of them surrounded by significant acreage and trees.
Hunters may not expect anyone to be on the property, and workers don't expect trespassers to be firing rifles around them, he said.
"The combination doesn't add up to a very happy ending," Gruetzner added.
Dan Smith, manager of provincial enforcement compliance for the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources, said hunters are generally allowed to use crown land or private property, if the landowner has granted permission.
"If they're caught trespassing, and the landlord doesn't want them there or he's posted the property, they can be subject to charges under our official wildlife statute or under the Trespass To Property Act," Smith said
If it's owned by a public entity and it's not posted,it's huntable land.Quote:
Originally Posted by smacktrot
Note that properties owned by provincial govt agencies are not crown land per se.
Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
I do not believe this to be factually correct. But am researching it as we type; for an actual doc that clarifies.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Also note as per Province of Ontario:
Under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, if you are convicted of giving false notice, you can be fined up to $25,000 and/or receive up to one year in jail.
Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997
Loi de 1997 sur la protection du poisson et de la faune
ONTARIO REGULATION 665/98
HUNTING
Consolidation Period: From April 1, 2017 to the e-Laws currency date.
Last amendment: O. Reg. 87/17.
PART 3
DESIGNATED CROWN LANDS AND PROVINCIAL PARKS AREAS
3. The designated Crown lands and lands in provincial parks set out in the Schedules are those lands on which hunting is permitted in accordance with Part XIV of Ontario Regulation 665/98 (Hunting). O. Reg. 378/00, s. 1.
SCHEDULE 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horridfiber101
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. The OP asked about specific areas owned by OPG and the province. Generally,unless posted otherwise,covered by a municipal by-law OR when Hydro One right-of-ways and tower lines are on posted private property,these areas are open for hunting by anyone providing that access isn't landlocked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horridfiber101
Its been some time since this discussion came up in camp......
In rural areas, such as farmland where transmisdion towers run through the property..."most" farmers have a 50 -100yr "lease" of the property that OPG has their tower on.. In other words.. OPG owns the tower.. U build a stand in the tower.. Youll be fined... U build a stand beside a leg outside thetower footprint.. Youre ok.
In your case.. Its tricky because its an actual piece of land owned by OPG... And trying to find someone who works for a government funded institution to sign your OFAH permission slip? Good luck on anyone there taking responsability for a signature
I would find the local Hydro maintenance office... Drop off abox of donuts at 0700... And ask the maintenace guys who to talk to ... The " boots on the ground" are usually the ones telling the truth... The rest cover their
On the other hand "boots on the ground guys" arent management and have no authority or power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ger43
An important consideration is whether the parcels in question are vacant or posted. OPG is very concerned about liability, especially if they have buildings or equipment on the site or if there is water e.g a river. More often than not, OPG won’t allow access.
Vacant parcels owned by Infrastructure Ontario on behalf of the Crown is public land and is open to hunting unless otherwise posted.
I have spoken with reps from IO (Infrastructure Ontario) regarding lands they own in Durham region and they have stated that they do not allow hunting on those lands. I am not sure if this would carry over to your location, but I hope this helps. The same can be said for lands owned by Conservation Authorities; some allow limited hunting opportunities while others (TRCA) prohibit hunting on their lands.
Read and understand the Trespass to Property Act.
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90t21
Unless it is signed, fenced or primarily used for agriculture, you can hunt there. It doesn't matter who owns it. The one exception would be where you have been specifically told not to by the landowner/occupier.
^^^^ This is basically it.Quote:
Originally Posted by benjhind
Unless it is explicitly signed, or has maintained fences ( meaning a bunch of decrepit posts and wire don't qualify), you can access it to hunt.
The onus is on the property owner to ensure that they have adequately marked, or otherwise conveyed that they do not give permission. This is true of abandoned farmsteads, etc.
Actually the onus is on you to gain permission to enter private property if its posted or not. Just because there is no signs does not give anybody the right to enter and hunt private land. Good luck trying to convince an leo your allowed to hunt on private land without permission....Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
That's true only after the landowner or the property agent (as defined by law) or law enforcement has so advised the trespasser and ordered them off the property where there's no fences and/or signs unless the property is under cultivation. When/if they refuse to leave is when a charge can be laid. "Trespass to hunt" under the FWCA may also be laid where adequate notice is given verbally by the landowner/agent,also.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
while Trimmer is correct and it is legal, i would agree with Canadaman. i don't think we as hunters should be going on known private property to hunt without asking permission just because it is improperly posted or fenced.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
personally i would use the lack of fencing / posting as a conversation starter, then offer to post it properly in exchange for permission to hunt it.
Good luck trying to convince an leo that your allowed to trespass and hunt on private land because the land owner has not told you to leave yet. Nobody has the right to hunt on private land unless consent permission is granted regardless to whether or not fencing or signage is present. Its your responsibility to make sure your not trespassing and hunting private land.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
You still legally have to have permission to legally enter a private property. Clearly stated in the act. Please show where no permission is needed to hunt private land, as the trespass act clearly states you must gain permission to legally enterQuote:
Originally Posted by parkcity
Law enforcement already should have knowledge of the TPA and OLA when confronting people when there's been no notification given. So,they're told to leave,they do so and that's the end of it in most circumstances. I used to hate responding to "hunters trespassing" complaints because that's all we could do,initially. If the trespassers returned after we left, the set fine was $50. Now,I think it's around $150,still way to low to be a deterrent. Your last sentence sure says it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
Take it a step further and shoot an animal on private land, get caught by the MNR and your having bigger problems fast. 50 bucks won't cut it..lolQuote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I always let adjacent properties know that I am hunting on certain lands and at minimum they give me permission to retrieve. I also let landowners adjacent to even crown know I am hunting just so cops don't show up for unknown reason. I have never had an issue. Since living in Ottawa out near Russell I have only had 2 landowners say I could not hunt. One the farmers son and his friends were hunting the land and the second purchased the land next to an area I had permission on, but he still allowed me to retrieve.
It all come down to boots on the ground and in areas like Ottawa for crown boots on the ground letting adjacent landowners like farmers know your hunting pays dividends. When you have access to private land stopping by to at minimum see how things are going pays off giving a helping hand occasionally is also good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
Read the trespass to property act.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
The offender has to be notified that they are in fact trespassed from the property before any LEO can action anything.
I'm not saying it is entirely scrupulous to simply walk onto private property, which is unsigned, but the rule of law has already been stated to you.
Your statement of "good luck trying to convince an LEO" is a false statement.
Individual walks onto a parcel of land that has no maintained fences, and has no signage.
Property owner attends and tells individual they are not allowed on the property, LEO can then action any further Trespass issues. Period full stop.
Individual walks on to parcel of land that has no maintained fences, nor signage. LEO drives by, as there has been no complaint filed.
Let me ask you this. 1000s of individual walk onto parcels of private land every hunting season, and no one ever is asked by CO or LEO to show their permission letter when stopped. Why do you suppose that is?
Yes? Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
Please do educate us as to what charge would be forthcoming.......
As long as said animal was harvested under a valid license, there is none, unless the individual has already been given notice under the TPA, or has entered a property which has been posted under the TPA.
There have been few charges of Trespass to hunt laid in this province, but every one of them that has been laid, have met those criteria first.
Look. These are open forums, and I get it. Walking onto a parcel that is known to be private property is a really crummy thing. No one is arguing that. And no one here is necessarily advocating for doing it either.
In the case of the OP, he's indicated a bush parcel, which apparently is either IO, or OPG, but not fenced, nor posted. So in the strictest terms of the law, what was asked has been answered.
Many people are confused about the TTPA and the cut and dry version is that Bluebulldog is accurate in his interpretation of that Act.
Someone did say that "in practice" it is a good idea to first ask permission which is just courteous.
Unless it is one of the exemptions under the Act it is simply a situation where if you are asked by the Landowner/Agent to leave, you must.
Until the Act is changed it is not required (permission first)
I was involved last year in a situation almost exactly like this. Let me explain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
I have sole permission to hunt a sizable acreage (300 +) Naturally, I covet it and keep a good watch on it as the owner is from out of the area. To make a long story short, I came across a guy who had just shot a turkey out of season, 2 turkeys in fact, on this property. I knew right where this guy was staying (local campground) so I reported it. 2 CO's arrived and did the site investigation, then they went to see the fella at the campground.
Later, one of the CO's came to my cabin and filled me in on the details. The fella turned out to be a First Nation citizen. The turkey's were apparently seized but no charges were laid due to the fact the fella told the CO he thought it was crown land? Unfortunately, the land wasn't posted and as the CO said, it would never hold up in court due to the provisions in the TPA. The land in question is all woods, no fence and no obvious agriculture.
So, I firmly believe, first nations or not, anyone hunting this land would get a free pass simply because it wasnt posted. And for the record, its now posted with the red circles, and lots of them!
Obviously the act needs to be revised /modernize , too many people don’t care and have no respect for other people’s assets.
I can show you crown land and you would swear up and down it is private and I could show you private land and you would swear it is crown. If an owner gives no indication that the land is private than it makes it very difficult.
I even know a piece of land that the Conservation Authority doesn't even know where there boundary is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
We are in 2019, there are easy ways to find out.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
I've laid out 1000's of km of boundary lines, I worked all my life with compass, maps, GPS, GIS, - Arc Map etc. I know what is private land and what is crown.
I also own quite a bit of properties across Ontario and I'm fully aware what trespassers do on my properties.
It doesn't change my point of view that the act needs to be revised / modernize.
How would you like to see the law changed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
Are all your properties fenced / signed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
How would you like to see the act changed. Balancing the notion that in some cases, trespassers do not know accurately where a boundary line is?
To be honest, this type of attitude is why the honest guy can find it difficult gaining hunting permissions. Many farmer land owners get sickntired of dealing with trespassing hunters helping themselves to their properties without asking. "No fence, no signs", screw it, let's go hunting is what has destroyed many farmer hunter relations....Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Completely agree. I've seen it happen in lots of spots in SW Ont.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
However, I have not exhibited any "attitude", or stance on the matter.
I also own rural properties. Most are thankfully not near access points.
I'm speaking specifically about the legislation itself.
1. An owner complaining about the current legislation should ensure that they are compliant, or really they have zero argument.
2. What you have posted is clearly misleading. Any farmer, with an active operation or not, doesn't have to fence, nor sign their property for the TPA to be in effect. There would be no confusion as to a workable piece of land vs. a remote section of bush, which is what was referred to by the OP.
3. The way the TPA is worded, it would be enough to enforce. However, yes, I know of some folks who have come up this way from the London area, who literally travel up here, and then walk on to fields hoping they won't be asked to leave......yes, already said it was crummy.
4. Revision to the TPA would be nice. Having said that, it was drafted with an effort to mitigate the "idiot factor". Meaning it would not be overly punitive to anyone in fact wandering onto private property in error.
My question is to ask, bearing that in mind, what would the revisions look like.
Pretty simple really the hunter would provide written permission for any property they do not own, with a contact number for the registered landowner.Owners of property should not have to plaster no trespassing signs all over the place, these days with access to so much information most anyone can find out in minutes what land is Crown for instance and what is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
"Pretty simple".Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
The TPA isn't written specifically with hunters, or written permission in mind now is it Gilroy? ( Ex LEO, correct?).
Now, if we were to crack open the FWCA and firm up the "Trespass to hunt" criteria.....
With only a set fine of $150,trespassers simply pay it by credit card and a shoulder shrug. Now,if it was $1K and a 1 year license suspension for a first offense,it might get someone's attention. As mentioned previously,though,if that's they way it's going to be ,landowners can count on going to court every time to give evidence. They,too,must have every "i" dotted and "t" crossed with every sign in place and every gate closed and locked. Is that really how we want it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Put the onus on the hunter or person to prove that they have a right or permission to be on that parcel of land.
Change the wording in the act to make it clear what trespassing is and what are the consequences for those smart azzes that are fully aware that they are on private property.
Stiffer fines are needed and like mentioned by trimmer license suspension for those repeat offenders.
Have clear and concise directives for police officers and judges to help them do their jobs properly.
And yes Bbd my properties are identified as private property with no trespassing allowed.
I’m presently sitting in my camp on 240 acres situated on 2 lakes and could bore you all night with trespassers stories.
Also sorry, I’m not going to waste my time arguing with someone that says it’s ok to play stupid and trespass on others people property that they worked hard all their life’s to acquire.
Good night, getting up early to work on my properties.
I agree that the FWCA should be changed to have hunters have written permission on their person while hunting on private property other than their own. This is the way it works for the deer hunt on Manitoulin Island if I'm not mistaken. The onus should not be on the landowner to sign property, etc. and under the FWCA there is provision for hunting suspensions when convicted.
How much clearer do you want the wording to be ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
If you read the act in it's entirety, it is very clear . link; http://www.canlii.org/en/on/laws/sta...990-c-t21.html
This seems to be more of a Southern Ontario thing. At least where I live we don't seem to really have a problem. I know the farmers in my area could not be bothered to write a letter.
You almost sound annoyed that some landowners don't mind hunters on their properties unless they are charging people money. Things are different here so it seems. Most farmers I know are happy to have responsible hunters on their land. I have a good enough reputation around here that I can get access to almost any property.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by redd foxx
IMO I shouldn’t have to plant a garden or post a red dot to stop trespassers from entering on my property.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Wow, you are assuming some weird stuff. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Good for you if you have a verbal agreement with landowner. Then it’s not trespassing.
For the record, I never said such a thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
People come on here and get their panties in a bunch.
Here's the thing. The TPA was not written specifically with Hunters in mind. It was written to protect landowners from incursions onto their properties.
It was written so that an innocent error, would not result in overly punitive measures against someone, say like a group of hikers wandering off the Bruce Trail, onto farmland.
The fact that hunters exploit it is unfortunate, but my posts haven't said it's ok, only responded to the OPs original question from a legal perspective....
I disagree here. I own a chunk of a big woodlot. My land is not "primarily used for agricultural purposes" as I don't farm or own farmland. However, all of my neighbours (who share the same woodlot) are farmers and their parcels all have agricultural land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Someone entering from the road can access my land if it isn't signed or fenced, that is clear. But where does my property end and the agricultural land begin? The property lines are not fenced. To someone stopping at the road, it all looks like one bush, so how are they to distinguish which pieces are "primarily used for agricultural purposes"?
I think there is plenty of room to argue that a large woodlot accessible from the road could be seen as land not used primarily for agriculture, even if the parcels do encompass some agricultural land. I would advise any farmer who wants to restrict access that they are best to post any access point. The law is clear that they can't walk across the field to enter, but if they enter from a roadway or another property things get murky.
Yeah, I was going to say ... I would think no way you can walk on an OPG site, even if it isn't properly marked. OPG owns nuclear stations ... lol. And yes, they should be and likely are marked, but a missing sign post does not give the right to trespass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horridfiber101
Besides OPG has many partners on their sites, and those facilities require protection.
Anyhow, I'm glad you followed up with research, not a hip fired response.
That is correct the TPA is not specifically written with hunters in mind.But you did ask "what would the revisions look like". I gave you my answer that written permission would be a good update for the TPA and would be pretty simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
I agree with the other posters that private land owner,s should not have to post land but that the hunter should do their homework before entering land.Very
little excuse these days with Crown Atlas and so forth.
The law: why the onus is on the landowner to sign it , if it's not obvious.
Quote:
Provincial regulation
Every province in Canada has trespass legislation, such as Ontario’s Trespass to Property Act. Only the territories rely on the common law. In some provinces, Privacy Acts, Motor Vehicle Acts, Fish and Wildlife Acts and even All Terrain Vehicle Acts may give a legal right to an owner to prosecute trespassers.
The purpose of any trespass legislation is to give greater control over entry or use of an owner’s or tenant’s premises, to provide penalties and remedies for breaches of the Act, and to facilitate the recreational use of private lands.
The law, in most cases, does not take away an owner’s or tenant’s right to sue for trespass, but usually grants the government the authority to seek its own sanctions as a way to control this sort of behaviour.
While trespassing is usually defined as the unlawful entry onto the private land of another, it also includes performing an unlawful activity on the land and refusing to leave when told to do so.
In some provinces, such as Ontario, there is a reverse onus provision. In Ontario, a person is presumed to be trespassing if he or she is found in a private garden, field or other land under cultivation, inside lands that are fenced for livestock or cultivation and on lands where notice has been posted. It is important to note that trespass is not presumed in privately owned natural areas if it is not posted as prohibited. This point is in line with the philosophy of encouraging recreational activity on privately held lands.
Offenders may be fined, in some cases up-to several thousand dollars. There are a number of defences available to a person charged under provincial trespass legislation. If there is a fair and reasonable supposition that an accused had a right to be on the land, the person may be acquitted. There is also an implied permission to approach a door of a building unless there is a notice warning people to stay away.
OK. I don’t get what it is your trying to accomplish. I can just imagine how a young new hunter will interpret your post?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Really,it's very straight forward for a newbie. If the land is posted or under cultivation,stay off. If you're told to leave private property that's not posted,you do so,if not,you're committing an offense. Pretty simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
Pretty much what Trimmer has stated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
A question was asked. It was answered from an incorrect position by some.
While some behaviors are contemptible, saying that they are illegal, or implying they are by stating "good luck explaining that to an LEO" is false, and has been called out.
What I have been stating all along, is that landowners ( and I am one) are quick to point out where the TPA needs to be addressed, yet some forget that it wasn't written with the FWCA in mind.
The OP was referencing a bush parcel up North, either owned by IO, or OPG, but doesn't meet the criteria as stated under the act.
Context is everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by benjhind
Depending on where your land is, could it reasonable be assumed that there is no Crown land? Could it be reasonably assumed that it's part of a completed survey? If surrounded by worked agricultural...it could likely also be assumed that it might be a managed woodlot...
Say what you wish, I worked with a guy who used your ethics, no signs no fence go hunt. The mnr charged him with trespass to hunt, it cost him much more than just a warning to leave. Hopefully one day a trespasser will ruin your hunt so you can enjoy someone playing dumb and saying, I didnt see any signs so i thought it was crown land. Ignorance is a pathetic excuse imoQuote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
"My ethics" aren't even being presented here.
This was mainly an abstract discussion.
"You worked with a guy" is about as good a legal precedent as your other arguments. "My cousins best friends brother.....".
Unless you have the actual details, you are presenting one side of a very poorly structured story.
The TPA is worded simply.
No trespass to hunt charge has been prosecuted successfully without an adequate premise of the TPA being applied.
Stop making this a personal matter. The OP asked a question, it was answered incorrectly.
If people want to fear monger others, by trying to scare them with incorrect interpretations of the law, then that behavior is also incorrect.
The TPA is crummy when it comes to accessing land that isn't posted, and privately owned. I have repeatedly stated that already. I have also stated support for either revising it, or the FWCA to better protect landowners.
Continuing to assert that I engage in poor ethics, or wishing something ill towards me, based on the fact that I answered the OPs query correctly, and will not engage in scare tactics is childish. I have simply pointed out the premise of the TPA, and it's interpretation under the law.
FWIW.
1. I own land that I hunt on. 2. I have never entered land I don't have permission for. ( except when I was a kid). 3. I find the TPA just as frustrating as I have had hunts ruined by people who have abused the rules.
I see we have another Philadelphia lawyer with all the answers.. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
No. You have someone that has managed properties for over 20 years, both public and private. My knowledge of most relevant legislation is more than simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
PM me and I'll happily provide my bona fides.
I don't know how many times it needs to be explained to you in the simplest of terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
The current provincial trespass laws are very straightforward, it is the legislation that we have and must live by.
If you're not happy with how it is written then take up a cause rather than criticise others or make suggestions that seem to suggest someone has low moral ethics. That's unacceptable just because you hear something you don't necessarily agree with.
As far as your example goes, I absolutely guarantee you there is far more to that story than even you know. Not really relevant here
Great advice you guys are giving out. Simple if there is no signs or fencing , no agricultural activity, you are free to trespass until told otherwise. Its really no wonder guys cant find farms to hunt on anymore, with attitudes like that who would want any hunters on their land?. Good luck like others have stated, done wasting time on people who plead ignorance and have no respect for others assets, and only want to justify why you can trespass on someones private land.Quote:
Originally Posted by smokin'stoegie
Yeh I have to agree with you on this and giving out advice/guidance on how to get around the TPA is really doing a disservice to new hunters MANY on here weekly LOOKING for ways to access land.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
I think a more constructive way of going about it is to suggest a few simple ways new hunters can get access to land lawfully.
Maybe like look at a map and chose your target area you might to try and hunt in.
Look at the Ontario Crown Atlas and determine if there are any Crown Parcels in that area.
Call the local MNR office and ask them if there are any managed land tracts available to hunt in that area.
Call the local township office and ask them if there are tracts of land they manage which allow hunting.
Call the local Game and Fish clubs and ask about area,s that are open.
With technology these days available to new hunters in particular these searches can be done in a very short time with very little expense.
No one is telling anyone to go and trespass, they are simply stating how it works in the laws eyes. . They also mentioned some dont agree with the way it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
It is up to each hunter to understand the land and where they hunt. It's your responsibility to make sure not on private property and it's ok to hunt. Not everyone follows all the rules and laws out there,so there for you have trespassers. No one here is saying it's ok, but some people do what they want.
Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
Seems that a few people here are letting their feelings get in the way of the facts.
Comedy gold. Someone correctly answers a question regarding trespassing laws and then is accused of advising new hunters to trespass.
Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
Right?!Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
Evidently reading comprehension is no longer important.
I've read all the posts, and it's clear, both sides are answering different questions.
Bluebulldog is answering ... what does the law say about trespassing. And what the law says is what will count in court. Even being charged by an officer is not good enough, it's about what is held up in court. Lots of charges get dropped in courts because officers make mistakes (or are grumpy sometimes).
Canadaman30 is asking, what's the correct way to legally AND ethically enter land. Correct does not imply that you simply adhere to laws ... our laws are far too incomplete to provide ethical guidance. You shouldn't be coming out and swearing at your neighbor every morning just because there's no law that says you can't! So, yes, in fact what you have discovered is that the laws are not good, not clear enough, and maybe not fair. Of course the ethical way is to do your homework, find out who's land it is and seek permission, maybe bring a carrot cake along too!
Right on. :thumbup: Have a great summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog