New Tag format Next Year ?

I know this is how rumours get started, I'm aware of that, but the source is reliable so it has some credibility to it so I'll pass it on.

Went to the MNR office last week to pick up the my hunting tags for the year and was chatting with one of the more senior clerks and he mentioned that the tag system next year will (may?) be going to a paper copy.....printed off your computer after the on-line purchase and to be protected by keeping it a zip lock bag.

I guess that will eliminate the cost/requirement to have them mailed out.

The idea raises a lot of admin and enforcement questions that I'm sure the MNR will address before they implement, but I'm sure they will be a lot of unhappy user having to deal with them.

Anyone else heard any rumblings that may confirm the 'rumour' ?

Yea Mike, that is a proposed new system. Our game seals will be printable from a computer. Apparently, there will be no need to tag game immediately, or at all even as long as the shooter is in possession of the animal. If not, then it must be tagged . You will need to supply a method to keep the seal fit to read I guess. There was talk of using a zip loc bag. There are apparently big changes coming, but just what they are remains to be seen..

I guess it is happening..

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GAME TAGS – what we know so far:
In an effort to offer more choices to purchase licenses and tags, the MNRF has added the “print your tag from home” option. You will still be able to buy them in-person at a Service Ontario location. This just provides the option for hunters to purchase, print and go.
Details…
• Comes into effect January 1, 2019, so anyone entering a big game draw or buying a licence before then will still receive the yellow game seals they are used to
• Anglers and hunters are still required to carry relevant tag(s), an Outdoors Card and Possession Acquisition Licence (if applicable)
• Hunters will still be required to fill out the tag (i.e. notch as they have in the past) at the point and time of harvest
• Individuals are responsible for ensuring that their printed paper tag remains intact and readable for enforcement purposes
• Starting in 2019, the tag will only need to be attached to the animal if it is no longer accompanied by the hunter (i.e. if it is being transferred, or if it is unattended). This means you don’t have to put the paper tag on while bringing the animal out of the bush if you are always with it
• Printed tags will have security codes built in for enforcement purposes and so that a purchased tag can only be used once, as intended

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https://www.ofah.org/issues/mnrf-lic...ystem-changes/

I was just about to send you that link.....

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Yea Mike, that is a proposed new system.

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Thanks Rick..(I was typing when you posted)

Great news for guys like me that shot deer on my own property. Always seem silly to put the tag on, take a pic, then cut off of head. From recovering the deer to skinning it usually happens within the hour. Never was a need for a tag.

I guess the Camp Pole deer will still have to be tagged.

Conservation officer at the Bancroft hunting association meeting on Saturday confirmed by mid November the tags will change to the new system
He didn't give a ton of details but basically as long as the tag holder has the tag notched and he's with the animal the tag doesn't need to be affixed to the animal

Dan

I read about this change too. Some US states use a similar system and they use reusable luggage tags and ziplocs to attach the seal to the animal. Maybe we'll get OFAH ones =)

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Originally Posted by manyo

Maybe we'll get OFAH ones =)

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Now there's the 'Best Idea of the Week" winner....much better than the license plate holder I got a few years back :)

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Now there's the 'Best Idea of the Week" winner....much better than the license plate holder I got a few years back :)

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Thanks Mike! And to think -- it's only Monday morning!

So how many times can you print out the tag.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

So how many times can you print out the tag.

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• Printed tags will have security codes built in for enforcement purposes and so that a purchased tag can only be used once, as intended

As per previous post -# 3 :rolleye:

I guess this also means the service fee will be eliminated eh . . . pffffft

I cant see MNRF officers driving around with portable scanners checking if the tag was already used.
This system will work only if mendatory phone in with in a certain time after the kill.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I guess it is happening..




https://www.ofah.org/issues/mnrf-lic...ystem-changes/

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The computer program will prevent more than one printing.

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Originally Posted by gunter

I cant see MNRF officers driving around with portable scanners checking if the tag was already used.
This system will work only if mendatory phone in with in a certain time after the kill.

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I think mandatory reporting was part of the changes as well...

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Originally Posted by jaycee

• Printed tags will have security codes built in for enforcement purposes and so that a purchased tag can only be used once, as intended

As per previous post -# 3 :rolleye:

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Print to PDF, print out over and over again.

I like the manditory registration via the phone or internet, without a tag with you and the animal or being registered that may be a way to keep people from better hiding the poaching.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

I think mandatory reporting was part of the changes as well...

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Yes Rick..(same link I gave earlier)

HUNTER HARVEST REPORTING – what we know so far:
Harvest reporting is a very important piece of the information puzzle when it comes to sustainable fish and wildlife management. The MNRF needs this information to support research, to accompany population modelling and to develop harvest quotas. The idea is to collect the information by electronic device (computer, smartphone, telephone) rather than by mail.
Details…
• Mailed-in postcard surveys will be coming to an end (they will still be mailed out in 2018)
• ALL hunters who purchase a licence for moose, elk, white-tailed deer, wolf/coyote, wild turkey and black bear will be required to provide information whether they harvested an animal or not, and even if they didn’t end up hunting
• If you do not complete the report, you may not be able to purchase a licence the following year. The new regulations coming into effect on January 1, 2019 allow the government to refuse to issue a licence to a hunter who did not report in the previous year, but the details related to the consequences of not reporting have not yet been finalized
• The MNRF will communicate with hunters (via email) to remind them of deadlines and mandatory reporting
• The OFAH has been pushing for a phased-in approach to allow hunters to adapt to the new system (i.e. not have severe consequences immediately), and to share harvest reporting results with hunters as well as how they are using the information in wildlife management

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

So how many times can you print out the tag.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

The computer program will prevent more than one printing.

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Crap..don't tell him that... I wanted to see Gilroy print out 246 copies of the same tag and see what that accomplished other than running out of ink...LOL...

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Crap..don't tell him that... I wanted to see Gilroy print out 246 copies of the same tag and see what that accomplished other than running out of ink...LOL...

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Fair enough so far but I was thinking about copies in case one gets lost,destroyed.If this ONE paper copy is all that we get their is bound to be problems not least of which plenty of people don,t even have a printer.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Print to PDF, print out over and over again.

I like the manditory registration via the phone or internet, without a tag with you and the animal or being registered that may be a way to keep people from better hiding the poaching.

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My point exactly,its a paper tag and once printed can be copied,same security code on both.

This sounds like a terrible idea. How is the mnrf going to prevent people from making copies of their own permits.

I am sure you will still have to put a tag on kill if it is on the game pole because if the CO visits the camp and the tag holder is out hunting he is therefore not available to produce tag.

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Originally Posted by Useless

This sounds like a terrible idea. How is the mnrf going to prevent people from making copies of their own permits.

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You have to remember that this is not a new MNR idea...it's already in use in a lot of states and has passed all the Beta testing down there ....so the poachers have had opportunity to test them out and corrections made to make the system viable.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

You have to remember that this is not a new MNR idea...it's already in use in a lot of states and has passed all the Beta testing down there ....so the poachers have had opportunity to test them out and corrections made to make the system viable.

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They beta have a better idea than this,what is unique about the original paper copy that it cannot be reproduced?

What if you don't have a printer??

We will see how this goes when it happens-my question is-if we are going to get a price reduction for the tag-tags?
After all,this is as much as "offered more choices for the hunters",it is a cost saving at the same time for the MNRF-and hopefully for us too?

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Originally Posted by boogaloo

What if you don't have a printer??

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...swing by the Service Ont outlet and have them print it off for you..

...take the file to Staples and have them print if for $0.25...

...if there is a will..there is a way :)

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Originally Posted by gbk

We will see how this goes when it happens-my question is-if we are going to get a price reduction for the tag-tags?
After all,this is as much as "offered more choices for the hunters",it is a cost saving at the same time for the MNRF-and hopefully for us too?

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even if it means less of an increase the next time, ever bit helps.

I hunt in an area that does not have Internet or cell phone service for both deer and moose. How is that going to work?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

They beta have a better idea than this,what is unique about the original paper copy that it cannot be reproduced?

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I was thinking the same thing. I can see it,now. Poacher whacks a deer and gets it out without being seen.but,has a sheet in his pocket "just in case." Process the deer when he gets home and goes out again days later with the same sheet and does the same thing all over again. Downloading the license once to PDF satisfies the computer programming,but,once you have it, you can print off as many copies as needed. The chances of pinching a poacher,now,is slim to none. I guess that's just the ol'coppers coming out in us,eh,Gilroy?

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Originally Posted by MikePal

...swing by the Service Ont outlet and have them print it off for you..



...take the file to Staples and have them print if for $25...

...if there is a will..there is a way :)

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Printers are cheap these days. Another $25 and you can buy your own printer.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Process the deer when he gets home and goes out again days later with the same sheet and does the same thing all over again.

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Same as they do now..the tag itself doesn't make a difference...a poacher will poach no matter what 'legal' system is in place.

With DNA evidence etc now they can convict a poacher with a lot more than a fraudulent tag.




.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Same as they do now..the tag itself doesn't make a difference...a poacher will poach no matter what 'legal' system is in place.

With DNA evidence etc now they can convict a poacher with a lot more than a fraudulent tag.




.

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Bit of a silly reply are you suggesting the present tags are as easy as duplicating a piece of paper.The tag makes a BIG difference and they are going from one that once on a timed and dated,they are hard to re use.Do you really think they are going to run DNA tests costing thousands of dollars when they can hardly put gas in their tanks.
Sure poachers will poach no matter what the system but why would we make it easier for them.Not tagging right on the scene of the kill is also a bad idea that makes no sense especially when you need to tag as soon as you get to the meat pole.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I was thinking the same thing. I can see it,now. Poacher whacks a deer and gets it out without being seen.but,has a sheet in his pocket "just in case." Process the deer when he gets home and goes out again days later with the same sheet and does the same thing all over again. Downloading the license once to PDF satisfies the computer programming,but,once you have it, you can print off as many copies as needed. The chances of pinching a poacher,now,is slim to none. I guess that's just the ol'coppers coming out in us,eh,Gilroy?



Printers are cheap these days. Another $25 and you can buy your own printer.

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Printers are cheap these days its the dam refills they get you with.LOL

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Do you really think they are going to run DNA tests costing thousands of dollars when they can hardly put gas in their tanks.

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It's the government, of course they will. You can be sure they will spend the little bit of money they have as inefficiently as possible - remember the helicopter caribou transplant . Took me 30 seconds to find this case from 2017 where they used DNA testing on a guy poaching turkeys. If I can find one that quickly you can be sure it happens regularly.

http://www.southwestmiddlesex.ca/Com...20Offences.pdf

Another 30 seconds to find another one from 2017:

http://www.simcoereformer.ca/2017/10...ting-violation

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Same as they do now..the tag itself doesn't make a difference...a poacher will poach no matter what 'legal' system is in place.

With DNA evidence etc now they can convict a poacher with a lot more than a fraudulent tag.




.

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This would make it easier though, the poacher could be stopped with a deer with the license on it and then stopped the next day with another deer and they may not be able to put 2 and 2 together. The saving grace is that there are only so many COs so the poacher will probably run into the same guy 2 days in a row with 2 different deer. That being said, there are so few COs that you are not likely to ever see one, you could shoot a deer every day and never see a CO, especially if you are poaching on your own property. The TIPS line is essentially the only way to catch these guys, people calling in and telling the authorities what is happening.

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Originally Posted by Ted

I hunt in an area that does not have Internet or cell phone service for both deer and moose. How is that going to work?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Just tune your 'Talkabout' to channel #1 and pass on the info to the CO that's listening in...LOL

Easy..since you have your paper in you pocket from before you went, find a land line to register your deer once you're done hunting.

To address a lot of the 'What If' scenerios'...I found a link for this new type of tag system that has been implemented in Wisconsin. I will assume the MNR system will be similar and will probably follow this closely as they may be using the same US based source for the tags that we use here in Ont.

what they look like:

http://dnr.wi.gov/images/news/2017/2...3_new_tags.jpg

How it works..

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While hunting, customers will still be required to carry proof they are authorized to hunt within the designated location. Hunters will be able to use their paper tag/authorization, DNR issued Conservation Card, a GoWild validated Wisconsin driver's license, a GoWild digital file as proof of compliance.
Harvested turkey and deer must still be registered under current law. Harvest registration is a critical part of deer and turkey population management. Customers will be asked to enter either their deer tag number or their turkey harvest authorization number into the Game Registration system to begin the harvest registration process. Please note, tag or authorization numbers are different than a customer identification number. Hunters will need to know their tag or authorization number to register.
GameReg
All harvested turkey and deer must be registered electronically by 5 p.m. the day after being recovered. GameReg is simple, fast and convenient for hunters. The system will prompt hunters to answer a series of questions, beginning with the deer tag/harvest authorization number and the hunter's date of birth.
Hunters will have two options for registering:
• online at GameReg.wi.gov (fastest and easiest option);
• by phone at 1-844-426-3734 (1-844-GAME-REG); or

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http://dnr.wi.gov/news/weekly/article/?id=4066

This is an FAQ link about some of your concerns...and probably the most informative thing to read thru. ;

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...Cdi78v0ALZumqV

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Originally Posted by Fox

The saving grace is that there are only so many COs so the poacher will probably run into the same guy 2 days in a row with 2 different deer.

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That's the old days..CO's now use 'digital'..they access the MNR data base and see what you've paid for and what you're allowed to do.... that's why they don't need the tag attached to the deer anymore...it's irrelavant.

This new tag system however will count heavily on the mandatory reporting, so the data in your account has to be up to date..and the onus is on you to do that.

I like how if you don't register the number assigned to you (filled or not)...you don't get one the following year.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

That's the old days..CO's now use 'digital'..they access the MNR data base and see what you've paid for and what you're allowed to do.... that's why they don't need the tag attached to the deer anymore...it's irrelavant.

This new tag system however will count heavily on the mandatory reporting, so the data in your account has to be up to date..and the onus is on you to do that.

I like how if you don't register the number assigned to you (filled or not)...you don't get one the following year.

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This is key, but will they may it mandatory? Or will they check at all? The number of turkeys shot in a year dropped dramatically the year they let you call it in rather than show up at a check station, I doubt the number of birds actually dropped at all.

The number of guys that suggest that we lie on our reports to say that we saw tons of deer to get more antlerless tags and complain that they are losing out on moose hunting or extra tags without any concept of sound population management and looking to the future make me believe that unless there is a significant increase in enforcement these tag changes and mandatory reporting will be meaningless.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

That's the old days..CO's now use 'digital'..they access the MNR data base and see what you've paid for and what you're allowed to do.... that's why they don't need the tag attached to the deer anymore...it's irrelavant.

This new tag system however will count heavily on the mandatory reporting, so the data in your account has to be up to date..and the onus is on you to do that.

I like how if you don't register the number assigned to you (filled or not)...you don't get one the following year.

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Yep. It's a good system. Poachers can't pretend to have lost their tag or anything like that. I do have a slight concern about cellular data coverage (presumably the way they will check validity of tags in the field) in ON though...

If that's the system,then,it'll be like plugging leak in a dam as they appear. Entering the bar code number from a tag into the system will automatically cancel the tag. So,really,nothing has changed as far as poaching is concerned. Poachers will still poach.

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Originally Posted by Fox

This is key, but will they may it mandatory?

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Yes ..as I posted earlier, pretty much everything will have mandatory reporting now...

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Originally Posted by Fox

Or will they check at all? .....these tag changes and mandatory reporting will be meaningless...

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Exactly...neither with the camp or in my solo hunting endeavors have I seen a CO in over 20 yrs...don't think this new system will make that happen any more often ..but you will want to do the reporting, no tag next year is a good incentive...LOL

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

If that's the system,then,it'll be like plugging leak in a dam as they appear. Entering the bar code number from a tag into the system will automatically cancel the tag. So,really,nothing has changed as far as poaching is concerned. Poachers will still poach.

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exactly.....but if the new system means I don't have to tag a deer I shot on my own property..it's 100% better.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

exactly.....but if the new system means I don't have to tag a deer I shot on my own property..it's 100% better.

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I'm left wondering why you think this is a significant improvement? It takes about a minute to notch and attach the seal to an animal. Just asking.

There are a couple things about the proposed system that I wonder about. Down here, for the controlled deer hunts, there has always been a requirement for mandatory reporting if you were selected in the draw, regardless of whether you participated. I know of guys that have hunted for years in these controlled seasons without ever submitting the mandatory report with no repercussions or enforcement. I wonder how serious the MNRF are about disqualifying individuals from future hunts if they don’t comply under the new system.

Secondly, it creates an opportunity for dishonest licensed hunters to continue hunting after shooting their first animal. For example, Jim Bob shoots a deer on opening day of gun season. He transports it to his place and butchers it up, without ever having to affix the seal, as per the proposed regs. A couple weeks later he has the itch to go bow hunting, and still has his seal, so he harvests another animal, transports it home, and butchers. He could go on repeating this scenario indefinitely, until one day gets stopped by a CO, produces his required licenses, and at which time his seal is scanned and becomes void for future use. At that point, Jim Bob decides he is done hunting for the year. Under the current system, your seal is affixed at the kill site, and the possibility of reusing it is close to zero. Not doing so will result in charges if stopped during transport. I just see this new system having the potential to be like having additional tags without the costs for some people.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Yes ..as I posted earlier, pretty much everything will have mandatory reporting now...



Exactly...neither with the camp or in my solo hunting endeavors have I seen a CO in over 20 yrs...don't think this new system will make that happen any more often ..but you will want to do the reporting, no tag next year is a good incentive...LOL

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My wife and I are part of a controlled hunt as well, it has been mandatory for as long as I have been part of the hunt, no issues there.

Do you think there will be a limited time frame to call in a tagged animal or would it just be at the end of the year? I would like to see it called in within 24 hours, that sort of thing. If the CO stops you and you have not called it in then there better be a reason for it, remote hunting way up north would be a reason for that, most other areas are well within the ability to get to a phone.

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Originally Posted by delmer

Secondly, it creates an opportunity for dishonest licensed hunters to continue hunting after shooting their first animal. For example, Jim Bob shoots a deer on opening day of gun season. He transports it to his place and butchers it up, without ever having to affix the seal, as per the proposed regs. A couple weeks later he has the itch to go bow hunting, and still has his seal, so he harvests another animal, transports it home, and butchers. He could go on repeating this scenario indefinitely, until one day gets stopped by a CO, produces his required licenses, and at which time his seal is scanned and becomes void for future use. At that point, Jim Bob decides he is done hunting for the year. Under the current system, your seal is affixed at the kill site, and the possibility of reusing it is close to zero. Not doing so will result in charges if stopped during transport. I just see this new system having the potential to be like having additional tags without the costs for some people.

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It makes no difference, Jim bob was already circumventing the system by not invalidating his tag at the kill site by notching the date and time. Weather its attached to the animal make no difference because the tag needs to be invalidated. Just like today, if you don't notch your tag, attaching it does nothing, for the current tie on tags you get from the store you just untie it and use it again. Its the notching that counts!

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Originally Posted by Fox

I would like to see it called in within 24 hours, that sort of thing.

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On the tags in the pic, Wisconsin requires it be called in by "5pm the day after the recovery"...

What is the purpose of pointing out how easy it will be to circumvent the system...if your going to poach..your not part of the system anyway. Will the new tags provide an easier way to poach than the last system...NO...just a different way a poacher will be able explode the privlage.

Seems like an excersise in futility to keep coming up with examples of how the new system will not stop poaching..poachers will poach.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

On the tags in the pic, Wisconsin requires it be called in by "5pm the day after the recovery"...

What is the purpose of pointing out how easy it will be to circumvent the system...if your going to poach..your not part of the system anyway. Will the new tags provide an easier way to poach that the last system...NO...just a different way a poacher will be able explode the privlage.

Seems like an excersise in futility to keep coming up with examples of how the new system will not stop poaching..poachers will poach.

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For me it is more an accurate way of managing the resource, poachers will still poach but making people call in and get a number or a check station, as is the case in Wisconsin, has proven to be a very good way to maintain accurate harvest numbers.

The system does not work at maintaining the resource, either a year or two too late in changing quotas or just wrong in the case of Moose.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I was thinking the same thing. I can see it,now. Poacher whacks a deer and gets it out without being seen.but,has a sheet in his pocket "just in case." Process the deer when he gets home and goes out again days later with the same sheet and does the same thing all over again. Downloading the license once to PDF satisfies the computer programming,but,once you have it, you can print off as many copies as needed. The chances of pinching a poacher,now,is slim to none. I guess that's just the ol'coppers coming out in us,eh,Gilroy?



Printers are cheap these days. Another $25 and you can buy your own printer.

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how this any different then the way a poacher does it now. Has a tag, doesn't tag the animal, process animal. Go shoot another animal . . .

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Originally Posted by Quack_Kills

It makes no difference, Jim bob was already circumventing the system by not invalidating his tag at the kill site by notching the date and time. Weather its attached to the animal make no difference because the tag needs to be invalidated. Just like today, if you don't notch your tag, attaching it does nothing, for the current tie on tags you get from the store you just untie it and use it again. Its the notching that counts!

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Good point. I overlooked the aspect of notching the tag. You still need to validate your kill on your tag. That being the case, then it won't matter whether it is affixed to the animal or in your pocket, it will need to be already notched if asked to be inspected. For some reason that totally slipped my mind.:o

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Originally Posted by toddy

how this any different then the way a poacher does it now. Has a tag, doesn't tag the animal, process animal. Go shoot another animal . . .

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My thought was that if I see an untagged animal in a truck or trailer now, I know the law is being broken in some way as it stands now (didn't affix his tag, or doesn't have one). But, in the future, you won't be able to readily determine if everything is legit (buddy has tag in pocket, but not required to affix to animal) or illegal (has no tag for animal).

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Originally Posted by toddy

how this any different then the way a poacher does it now. Has a tag, doesn't tag the animal, process animal. Go shoot another animal . . .

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The difference will be in enforcement. For poachers caught with Deer out of season,you're right that it won't make a difference. A CO can scoop them immediately when they stop them. That won't be the case,now,because even when they're stopped,Mr.Poacher simply shows his paper license and he's on his way. Granted as a follow up,the CO's will be able to check that the tag is validated which any poacher with half a brain will realize their poaching activity is over. That's the upside. The downside is they can keep going until they get stopped virtually unhindered. I'm still not comfortable with this new system simply because of this one aspect.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

The downside is they can keep going until they get stopped virtually unhindered. I'm still not comfortable with this new system simply because of this one aspect.

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Still no different than the present system...

In fact slightly better, because if a CO stops them..he looks at the paperwork, takes your deer registration number and HE can enter it into the system and burns the number..then your done...

But again..the guy can still go out and poach a deer...

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Originally Posted by toddy

how this any different then the way a poacher does it now. Has a tag, doesn't tag the animal, process animal. Go shoot another animal . . .

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It will be much easier.

New way: You shoot a deer and notch the paper tag so if you get stop you are good to go. Get home and print a new tag from a PDF file and go back hunting.

Old way: You shoot a deer and you don't notch the tag so you can use it for another day if you get stop you are nailed.
Old way: You shoot a deer and you notch the tag if you get stop you are good to go. But then you have no more tag to show so if you get stop hunting or driving home with a deer you are nailed.

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Originally Posted by seabast

It will be much easier.

New way: You shoot a deer and notch the paper tag so if you get stop you are good to go. Get home and print a new tag from a PDF file and go back hunting.

Old way: You shoot a deer and you don't notch the tag so you can use it for another day if you get stop you are nailed.
Old way: You shoot a deer and you notch the tag if you get stop you are good to go. But then you have no more tag to show so if you get stop hunting or driving home with a deer you are nailed.

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Bingo.

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Originally Posted by seabast

It will be much easier.

New way: You shoot a deer and notch the paper tag so if you get stop you are good to go. Get home and print a new tag from a PDF file and go back hunting.

Old way: You shoot a deer and you don't notch the tag so you can use it for another day if you get stop you are nailed.
Old way: You shoot a deer and you notch the tag if you get stop you are good to go. But then you have no more tag to show so if you get stop hunting or driving home with a deer you are nailed.

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Yes, you will still be required to notch your seal as before. You just don’t need to attach it if you are in constant possession. BC is the same, tags come in a booklet. As soon as you kill that animal, you must “cut” your tag.
As far as multiple copies of seals, I’m sure they have addressed that in the programming.

All that BS takes a lot of the fun away and lots of extra $h1t to go thru for one deer (i.e. require to call before 5pm means to be out of the bush for most of us, leaving the camp to drive around to find signal instead of celebrating and such).

A lot of hunters are going to be called poacher for not following stupid rules.... The entire world is going to crap these days and some of us are just find with it, follow the herbs, and seems to promote those changes..... :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rick_iles

Yes, you will still be required to notch your seal as before. You just don’t need to attach it if you are in constant possession. BC is the same, tags come in a booklet. As soon as you kill that animal, you must “cut” your tag.
As far as multiple copies of seals, I’m sure they have addressed that in the programming.

---

I really can't understand how my $25 printer can make this happen. When I buy a theater or an airport parking ticket online I can make as many copies as I'd like and the first one that I scan is a winner, until then they can all work. But who knows, there might be a secret out there....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rick_iles

Yes, you will still be required to notch your seal as before. You just don’t need to attach it if you are in constant possession. BC is the same, tags come in a booklet. As soon as you kill that animal, you must “cut” your tag.
As far as multiple copies of seals, I’m sure they have addressed that in the programming.

---

If its a simple copy of a printed tag from a home copier,how copy proof could it be.I would want at least a few copies just in case one got wet and fell apart or otherwise illegible.Right now the license and tag are pretty robust so I don,t have that worry.Can,t figure out why we cannot just keep this system we have.Giving time to notch the tag looks like opening another loophole.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seabast

New way: You shoot a deer and notch the paper tag so if you get stop you are good to go. Get home and print a new tag from a PDF file and go back hunting.

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You haven't been reading the posts have you now.......there is no more notching...there is no need for anything paper..just need the one with your deer registration number on it in your pocket if you are still with the deer. Toss it out once you call in and register your deer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

If its a simple copy of a printed tag from a home copier,how copy proof could it be.I would want at least a few copies just in case one got wet and fell apart or otherwise illegible.Right now the license and tag are pretty robust so I don,t have that worry.Can,t figure out why we cannot just keep this system we have.Giving time to notch the tag looks like opening another loophole.

---

Gilroy...go back and read the thread...you missed a whole lot of information and now your embarrassing yourself, but that's nothing new eh ? ..LOL..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

You haven't been reading the posts have you now.......there is no more notching...there is no need for anything paper..just need the one with your deer registration number on it in your pocket if you are still with the deer. Toss it out once you call in and register your deer.

---

On the previous posts I read it was stated an animal hanging on a pole outside camp would still need to be notched with the date and time killed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

I guess it is happening..




https://www.ofah.org/issues/mnrf-lic...ystem-changes/

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Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

You haven't been reading the posts have you now.......there is no more notching...there is no need for anything paper..just need the one with your deer registration number on it in your pocket if you are still with the deer. Toss it out once you call in and register your deer.

---

Well, this is from one of your post " Hunters will still be required to fill out the tag (i.e. notch as they have in the past) at the point and time of harvest" so now you are saying there is not more notching?
Are you reading your own post?! ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

On the previous posts I read it was stated an animal hanging on a pole outside camp would still need to be notched with the date and time killed.

---

From the sound of it all you have to do is throw that piece of paper you've printed out, with the deer registration number on it, into a zip lock bag and leave it with the deer if you not there...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

Gilroy...go back and read the thread...you missed a whole lot of information and now your embarrassing yourself, but that's nothing new eh ? ..LOL..

---

"Yes, you will still be required to notch your seal as before". You just don’t need to attach it if you are in constant possession. BC is the same, tags come in a booklet. As soon as you kill that animal, you must “cut” your tag.
As far as multiple copies of seals, I’m sure they have addressed that in the programming.

You haven't been reading the posts have you now.......there is no more notching...there is no need for anything paper..just need the one with your deer registration number on it in your pocket if you are still with the deer. Toss it out once you call in and register your deer



Thank you seabast......LOL


Maybe you need to read your own posts and take your own advice.You manage to contradict yourself within a few posts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

From the sound of it all you have to do is throw that piece of paper you've printed out, with the deer registration number on it, into a zip lock bag and leave it with the deer if you not there...

---

Thank you Mike.

All this reporting by phone sounds real good IF you don,t have spotty cell reception,for others a nightmare.

some exerts from the FAQ..this is Wisconsin's tag system. so may not be the same as ours, but I suspect it will be similar..

Quote:

---

What has changed with deer tag requirements?
Deer tag rules no longer require the hunter to:
- validate the tag in any way to indicate that it has been used
- attach a tag to the deer
- keep a copy of the tag with the meat until consumed

If not required, why would I want to print my tags anyway?
Deer tags still contain important information. Most important is the tag number which is needed to fulfill the important requirement of registering your deer. The tag also tells you what type of deer (buck or antlerless) that you have authorization to harvest, and where your authorization (zone, DMU, land type) is valid. It also contains information on registering the deer (call-in number or web address). Printing your tags and using them like harvest coupons not only provides all of this information, but is also a good way of keeping track of what and where you can harvest a deer. Once used, throw the tag away as a way of letting yourself know you’ve used that privilege.

---

Quote:

---

Can I leave my untagged deer with a friend or allow someone else to transport it?
Yes, there is no longer a requirement to attach a carcass tag, even when leaving an animal with another person. When possessing the deer of others, such as the last person at a deer camp who will be bringing home several deer for others, having a printed copy of the carcass tag/confirmation number corresponding to each animal will assist wardens with ensuring compliance with the bag and possession limit regulations.

Since tagging is no longer required, what should I do if I have to leave my deer in the field while I get my truck?
No special action is required. As long as the deer is harvested under one of your unused deer tags, you can leave the carcass in the field without attaching a tag or registering the deer.

How do the new deer tag rules apply to group hunting?
No changes have been made to group hunting rules. At least one member of the hunting party must have proof of an unfilled deer tag in the area where the hunt is taking place, and be willing to use that tag number to register a deer bagged by another member of the group.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Thank you Mike.

All this reporting by phone sounds real good IF you don,t have spotty cell reception,for others a nightmare.

---

I guess if the CO's phone doesn't work either he'll give you some leeway...LOL..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seabast

Well, this is from one of your post " Hunters will still be required to fill out the tag (i.e. notch as they have in the past) at the point and time of harvest

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Your right seabast I did oversee that...I appears that the MNR plans to keep and incorporate the notch function
on the tags were as Wisconsin dropped it when they switched.

Not doubt there will be more differences, I posted the Wisconsin links to give a basic idea how the paperless system works...I imagine every state that is using this new system will have specific/unique requirements.

Well, lots of “supposin’”....we won’t know until the MNRF formally notify hunters and implement the new system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

"Yes, you will still be required to notch your seal as before". You just don’t need to attach it if you are in constant possession. BC is the same, tags come in a booklet. As soon as you kill that animal, you must “cut” your tag.
As far as multiple copies of seals, I’m sure they have addressed that in the programming.

You haven't been reading the posts have you now.......there is no more notching...there is no need for anything paper..just need the one with your deer registration number on it in your pocket if you are still with the deer. Toss it out once you call in and register your deer



Thank you seabast......LOL


Maybe you need to read your own posts and take your own advice.You manage to contradict yourself within a few posts.

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If you read the information disseminated by OFAH, which Mike posted a link to, it says you will be required to notch your paper seal, the same as before, at the time of kill. Only difference is, you won’t have to tag the animal if you are with it. If you leave it....game pole ..etc., you will have to attach the seal as before.....pretty clear to me....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rick_iles

If you read the information disseminated by OFAH, which Mike posted a link to, it says you will be required to notch your paper seal, the same as before, at the time of kill. Only difference is, you won’t have to tag the animal if you are with it. If you leave it....game pole ..etc., you will have to attach the seal as before.....pretty clear to me....

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It is now that you have explained it properly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

It is now that you have explained it properly.

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If you had read the information posted from the OFAH in the first place it wouldn't have had to be explained..

I'm wondering why the MNR has opted to keep the 'notch' requirement with the new system. As near as I can see most of the states, that have switched to the 'no carcass tagging' system have dropped the use of a notched tag.

The notch info is never used, never gathered for statistical info etc and is thrown away when the deer is skinned/dresses.

I wonder what scenario it would even aid a CO who was to look at it on a deer at the kill site or in the back of a truck being transported. It really is meaningless and is probably why many states no longer bother with it.

Anyone know if there is a reason for the MNR to require the information on the tag in Ontario ? When would the information be usefull to a CO ? In what scenario is it important for a CO to see that you notched the tag to say you shot it at 8:00 ?

Just curious, it's never made sense , at least in the two hunting scenarios I hunt in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

I'm wondering why the MNR has opted to keep the 'notch' requirement with the new system. As near as I can see most of the states, that have switched to the 'no carcass tagging' system have dropped the use of a notched tag.

The notch info is never used, never gathered for statistical info etc and is thrown away when the deer is skinned/dresses.

I wonder what scenario it would even aid a CO who was to look at it on a deer at the kill site or in the back of a truck being transported. It really is meaningless and is probably why many states no longer bother with it.

Anyone know if there is a reason for the MNR to require the information on the tag in Ontario ? When would the information be usefull to a CO ?

---

Mike this is my slant on it!
I think the only reason to notch the tag is to render the tag invalid.
Like the ushers at hockey game - Rip the tag in half.
or
A train conductor - punch a hole in it.
It's to guarantee it won't be used again!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

If you had read the information posted from the OFAH in the first place it wouldn't have had to be explained..

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With some. you have to engrave the info on a 2 by 4 and hit them in the forehead with it , for them to understand!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SK33T3R

Mike this is my slant on it!
I think the only reason to notch the tag is to render the tag invalid.

---

Yea that makes sense, just a visible score to invalidate the tag...but date/time thing always made me wonder. The first year at hunt camp I thought we were suppose to send this info in for statistical info...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SK33T3R

Mike this is my slant on it!
I think the only reason to notch the tag is to render the tag invalid.
Like the ushers at hockey game - Rip the tag in half.
or
A train conductor - punch a hole in it.
It's to guarantee it won't be used again!

---

This was/ is the reason that was given to me by the MNR, years ago.

This is the tag they use in Virginia for example,makes more sense......just notch to say what you killed and invalidate (burn) it for further use.

Quote:

---

Tagging
Your hunting license includes game tags. When you kill a big game animal, you must meet these requirements.
• If you kill a bear, deer, elk, or turkey, you must validate (notch) the appropriate tag on your bear license; deer/turkey license; bonus deer permit; or other special permit before you can remove the animal legally from the place of kill.
• If you mistakenly validate (notch) a tag before you kill an animal, you must void the tag by writing “VOID” in ink on the line on the tag.
• If you kill an elk, you must validate an appropriate deer tag.

To validate a tag, remove the notch from the appropriate tag on the license. Do NOT remove the tag from your license.

---

https://www.hunter-ed.com/vab_adult/...-no-number.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

I'm wondering why the MNR has opted to keep the 'notch' requirement with the new system. As near as I can see most of the states, that have switched to the 'no carcass tagging' system have dropped the use of a notched tag.

The notch info is never used, never gathered for statistical info etc and is thrown away when the deer is skinned/dresses.

I wonder what scenario it would even aid a CO who was to look at it on a deer at the kill site or in the back of a truck being transported. It really is meaningless and is probably why many states no longer bother with it.

Anyone know if there is a reason for the MNR to require the information on the tag in Ontario ? When would the information be usefull to a CO ? In what scenario is it important for a CO to see that you notched the tag to say you shot it at 8:00 ?

Just curious, it's never made sense , at least in the two hunting scenarios I hunt in.

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Is this not obvious,you have to harvest the animal during the right time of day,on the right date,for the season your hunting in.The notch invalidates the tag.Your to hung up on your own farm scenario and are not thinking province wide.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jaycee

With some. you have to engrave the info on a 2 by 4 and hit them in the forehead with it , for them to understand!

---

Another trolling post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Your to hung up on your own farm scenario and are not thinking province wide.

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NO...exactly the opposite..I asked because I wanted to know if there were other scenarios....give me a scenario where date and time has any use ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Is this not obvious,you have to harvest the animal during the right time of day,on the right date,for the season your hunting in.

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This doesn't count as you don't tagged a poached deer with the date and time you poached it unless you shot it at 3:00am and notched it for 8:00 and think that will fool the CO :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Another trolling post.

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No I'm just stating fact.
You should know all about trolling posts, you have been doing it for years!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

NO...exactly the opposite..I asked because I wanted to know if there were other scenarios....give me a scenario where date and time has any use ?



This doesn't count as you don't tagged a poached deer with the date and time you poached it unless you shot it at 3:00am and notched it for 8:00 and think that will fool the CO :)

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I’m sure that has happened, guys killing a moose the night before season and tagging it with the tag notched after opening.....if they aren’t checked opening day, they may get away with it...but if they are checked early on the opener.....good luck..Some poachers are not that smart. I have heard of this happening in the NW where we hunt. A biologist can tell how long an animal has been dead..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rick_iles

..but if they are checked early on the opener.....good luck...

---

So the date/time notch is a tool for poachers to trick the CO's ? ..probably not the intended function... LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

So the date/time notch is a tool for poachers to trick the CO's ? ..probably not the intended function... LOL

---

No, just the opposite. If a CO checks your animal, the date of kill better match up with the general condition of the animal. So someone checked with a deer that the tag says was shot that day, and it’s frozen stiff....they will get an invite to see a JP, as an example...

I have heard of cases where they check the temperature of the dead animal, when there is a question about the date and time notch on the seal.

OK here's the real question!

How much $ is the tag going up this year.

I think this new tagging system is just a smokescreen to hoodwink us.

BUT it is an election year and maybe, just maybe Wynne will give us a rebate on all licence fees to try and buy our votes.

Highly unlikely ...... BUT ....?????

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SK33T3R

OK here's the real question!

How much $ is the tag going up this year.

I think this new tagging system is just a smokescreen to hoodwink us.

BUT it is an election year and maybe, just maybe Wynne will give us a rebate on all licence fees to try and buy our votes.

Highly unlikely ...... BUT ....?????

---

Licences are going up every year now, to the rate of inflation......thanks Wynney!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SK33T3R

I think this new tagging system is just a smokescreen to hoodwink us.

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The official word :

Quote:

---

The proposed changes are expected to improve client service and modernize service delivery related to the issuance of game tags. For example, they would allow a client to get their tag immediately without visiting a licence issuer, to get all services online, and would reduce reliance on postal services. The changes would also improve consistency, modernize hunting for the future, and reduce financial pressure on the fish and wildlife program and allow repurposing of those savings to other areas within the fish and wildlife program.

---

So they say it will save the beleaguered ministry some money and resources....always good with declining revenues.

The tag system, with whatever kind of anti-poaching device it incorporates, has no affect on the traditional hard core poacher who hunts out of season or by night with flashlight…he doesn’t use tags so it’s a mote point.

The most common type of poaching is the otherwise legal guy (bought a tag) who commits the crime of time; ...shots a deer on the way to the stand 45 minutes before or stays in the stand 30 minutes after legal hunting time.

And unless a CO hears (witness) him, all the hunter has to do is cover his tracks by falsifying the ‘notch’.. And since there is no possible way for a core body temperature check by a CO or Biologist that is able to point ‘time of death’ accuractly to within 45 minutes..he won’t be caught.

So what is the point of notching the date/time, I can’t think of a scenario where it would prevent or convict a poacher. It’s a useless requirement to curtail the most common type of poaching.

Probably why that requirement is not used in many states.

I don't understand the complaint that if you don't have a printer, you won't be able to print a tag out. You had to get out of your house, drive down to a provider, wait in line, and have it printed for you anyways. Now, if you don't have a printer, you can go to your friend's house or your office instead.

[QUOTE=MikePal;1057588]NO...exactly the opposite..I asked because I wanted to know if there were other scenarios....give me a scenario where date and time has any use ?

R. Ok this happens every year, your hunting buddy leaves his unfilled tag with you at the farm,hunt camp,.....for your use to take another deer.The next morning you drop your deer at 10am,notch the tag with date and time.The CO comes along that evening,checks your deer hanging notes the date and time tagged.Calls your buddy who declares he is the one who dropped the deer and left camp for work,but forgets what time he tagged the deer?Very common scenario much more common than a poacher out at night with a flashlight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

The tag system, with whatever kind of anti-poaching device it incorporates, has no affect on the traditional hard core poacher who hunts out of season or by night with flashlight…he doesn’t use tags so it’s a mote point.

The most common type of poaching is the otherwise legal guy (bought a tag) who commits the crime of time; ...shots a deer on the way to the stand 45 minutes before or stays in the stand 30 minutes after legal hunting time.

And unless a CO hears (witness) him, all the hunter has to do is cover his tracks by falsifying the ‘notch’.. And since there is no possible way for a core body temperature check by a CO or Biologist that is able to point ‘time of death’ accuractly to within 45 minutes..he won’t be caught.

So what is the point of notching the date/time, I can’t think of a scenario where it would prevent or convict a poacher. It’s a useless requirement to curtail the most common type of poaching.

Probably why that requirement is not used in many states.

---

There are many hunting law violations that have nothing to do with hunters not buying tags/licenses.The MAJORITY of violations are from otherwise legal hunters who bought a license and then took a short cut.For evidence of this simply read the MNR convictions page(s).

The requirement to time date and notch a tag is a investigative tool for the CO.The second use is that the tag is immediately invalidated right there and then.

I have no bother with tagging and notching on the spot its not a big deal.Not to do so simply opens up more loop holes to be exploited.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

The MAJORITY of violations are from otherwise legal hunters who bought a license and then took a short cut.

---

Yes but in all my years I have never read a case where the crime was solved because the date/time was falsified on the tag...just for not doing it to.

I have never heard of a valid reason that that specific data to be used for anything....other than like you said the notch invalidates a tag and like the pic I posted earlier...a simple notch to identify what deer was taken is simpler.

Interesting read for sure.

Just think next up for deer hunting will be.
You must possess a smart-phone (where reception is good).
Have your tag saved on your phone. No paper tag required.
Take a photo with the GPS location of the deer immediately after the deer is recovered.
The end of your season unless your party hunting...lol

:)

[QUOTE=MikePal;1057696]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Your obviously don't understand the rules of party hunting do you Gilroy...tags aren't left behind to be filled....

---

I understand very well the party hunting rules,we are talking about poaching here and hunters taking short cuts.You asked for an example of where notching would be helpful to a CO and I just gave you one.This type of offence I suggest to you is pretty common,taking a little short cut.Using a tag up in a illegal manner.

Tags are left behind to be filled it happens every year,just because you think poachers are only out there with flashlights after dark does not make it a fact.Please go onto the MNR conviction site and read what people are actually convicted of.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

Interesting read for sure.

Just think next up for deer hunting will be.
You must possess a smart-phone (where reception is good).
Have your tag saved on your phone. No paper tag required.
Take a photo with the GPS location of the deer immediately after the deer is recovered.
The end of your season unless your party hunting...lol

:)

---

I think the government is their wisdom (not) is trying to blend technology into the system and save costs, for themselves.The result looks like a pain for the hunters,added cost and they seem to be creating loop holes.KISS should come into play here,nothing wrong with the old tag system.IMO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

Interesting read for sure.

Just think next up for deer hunting will be.
You must possess a smart-phone (where reception is good).
Have your tag saved on your phone. No paper tag required.
Take a photo with the GPS location of the deer immediately after the deer is recovered.
The end of your season unless your party hunting...lol

:)

---

Actually sounds reasonable and about the only practical use I would have for a smart phone thingy...LOL....

Catching up here, so correct me where i'm wrong
1. You start by printing your tag several times, or copying the 1 it allows you to print, just in case. Since you'll surely ruin the first in the weather.
2. Shoot your game. Notch it, fill it out, ...etc
3. Legally transport you game to home, process, & into the freezer. Done. Home free
4. Skip phoning it in and repeat steps 2-3 with tag copy #2

A CO currently has an opportunity to avoid poaching in step 3, if the tag is un-notched or improperly affixed with the intention of reuse.
Soon, they won't

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher

Catching up here, so correct me where i'm wrong
1. You start by printing your tag several times, or copying the 1 it allows you to print, just in case. Since you'll surely ruin the first in the weather.
2. Shoot your game. Notch it, fill it out, ...etc
3. Legally transport you game to home, process, & into the freezer. Done. Home free
4. Skip phoning it in and repeat steps 2-3 with tag copy #2

A CO currently has an opportunity to avoid poaching in step 3, if the tag is un-notched or improperly affixed with the intention of reuse.
Soon, they won't

---

I’m pretty sure the system won’t let you print more than one tag. The copying aspect may be an issue, but I’d imagine they have thought of that....time will tell once this thing is rolled out and in use.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rick_iles

I’m pretty sure the system won’t let you print more than one tag. The copying aspect may be an issue, but I’d imagine they have thought of that....time will tell once this thing is rolled out and in use.

---

File>Print>OK
*paper jam*....... well, deer season cancelled i guess?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher

File>Print>OK
*paper jam*....... well, deer season cancelled i guess?

---

Lol... yea that would be my luck !!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher

File>Print>OK
*paper jam*....... well, deer season cancelled i guess?

---

Or your tag get wet...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

Yes but in all my years I have never read a case where the crime was solved because the date/time was falsified on the tag...just for not doing it to.

I have never heard of a valid reason that that specific data to be used for anything....other than like you said the notch invalidates a tag and like the pic I posted earlier...a simple notch to identify what deer was taken is simpler.

---

Notching the date and time is all about making it harder to poach. Notching your tag on the spot of the kill (big game and turkey) makes your tag unusable for a second kill. Without the need to notch it and skipping the report call you can go out again. It will increase poaching.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rick_iles

I’m pretty sure the system won’t let you print more than one tag. The copying aspect may be an issue, but I’d imagine they have thought of that....time will tell once this thing is rolled out and in use.

---

They have some pretty good printers out there.
Making copies by printing should be no problem.
Here we are trying to figure out how to beat the system.
Poachers don't care about tags.

"Poachers don't care about tags."

Poachers do care about tags because the majority of hunters getting caught have actually purchased tags and decide or get convinced to use them improperly and hence become just poachers.Most all the wildlife violations are normal guys doing the camp next door a favor or using a tag left behind in camp by a hunter who has gone back to work.The lack of Moose license in the draw and lack of anterless tags frustrates hunters who take short cuts.The minority of offences are poachers who do not but licenses at all or take game at night,they seem to not get caught that often.The notching of the game seals is to keep the normal hunter honest and acts as a deterrent and investigative led for the CO if they have to start an investigation.IMO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

"Poachers don't care about tags."

Poachers do care about tags because the majority of hunters getting caught have actually purchased tags and decide or get convinced to use them improperly and hence become just poachers.Most all the wildlife violations are normal guys doing the camp next door a favor or using a tag left behind in camp by a hunter who has gone back to work.The lack of Moose license in the draw and lack of anterless tags frustrates hunters who take short cuts.The minority of offences are poachers who do not but licenses at all or take game at night,they seem to not get caught that often.The notching of the game seals is to keep the normal hunter honest and acts as a deterrent and investigative led for the CO if they have to start an investigation.IMO

---

Good points.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

"Poachers don't care about tags."

Poachers do care about tags because the majority of hunters getting caught have actually purchased tags and decide or get convinced to use them improperly and hence become just poachers.Most all the wildlife violations are normal guys doing the camp next door a favor or using a tag left behind in camp by a hunter who has gone back to work.The lack of Moose license in the draw and lack of anterless tags frustrates hunters who take short cuts.The minority of offences are poachers who do not but licenses at all or take game at night,they seem to not get caught that often.The notching of the game seals is to keep the normal hunter honest and acts as a deterrent and investigative led for the CO if they have to start an investigation.IMO

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No, being honest keeps the honest hunter honest.

Im proud to say that the guys I hunt with follow the rules to the letter of the law. One, beacuse they're good people with good morals, and two, because we havent had a time in the last 40 years where at least one of our group isnt a MNR guy, and we NEVER wanted to jeopardize that friendship by putting him in a tough position. I would implore anyone to find another group if yours doesnt follow the rules. Have some damn respect for the animals your hunting.

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Originally Posted by blasted_saber

No, being honest keeps the honest hunter honest.

Im proud to say that the guys I hunt with follow the rules to the letter of the law. One, beacuse they're good people with good morals, and two, because we havent had a time in the last 40 years where at least one of our group isnt a MNR guy, and we NEVER wanted to jeopardize that friendship by putting him in a tough position. I would implore anyone to find another group if yours doesnt follow the rules. Have some damn respect for the animals your hunting.

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I.m also proud to say, i am in the same situation, one of my friends was a C.O. now retired , also knew most of the guys out of the local office.
We our group have never had a problem and we never will.
And as blasted_ saber said ,"Have some damn respect for the animals your hunting."
I will add to the above quote, " If you do not respect the animals , you have no respect for yourself ", or others.

Bingo X2!!!

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Originally Posted by seabast

It will be much easier.

New way: You shoot a deer and notch the paper tag so if you get stop you are good to go. Get home and print a new tag from a PDF file and go back hunting.

Old way: You shoot a deer and you don't notch the tag so you can use it for another day if you get stop you are nailed.
Old way: You shoot a deer and you notch the tag if you get stop you are good to go. But then you have no more tag to show so if you get stop hunting or driving home with a deer you are nailed.

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This is a really bad idea!!

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Originally Posted by Hardrack

This is a really bad idea!!

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Highest tag costs ever, and making it easier to re-use them without getting caught. What could go wrong?

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

I give 5 years and we'll be back to mailed out tags. The bad guys will have a field day with this one.

I got checked by a CO ice fishing. I asked him about electronic licenses. He said it's really hard to tell if the person with the phone showing him the license is in fact the owner of the license. The picture is very small I guess.

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Originally Posted by DanO

I give 5 years and we'll be back to mailed out tags.

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Take a look at what the US Departments are doing and you'll see our future..they're already 5 yrs ahead of us.
Electronic/Digital systems are replacing paper.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Take a look at what the US Departments are doing and you'll see our future..they're already 5 yrs ahead of us.
Electronic/Digital systems are replacing paper.

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They're trying it,but,it doesn't work for millions of hunters who aren't into e-commerce or don't own cell phones and computers. The backlash is brutal. Some would argue that they're light years behind us.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

They're trying it,but,it doesn't work for millions of hunters who aren't into e-commerce or don't own cell phones and computers.

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Yet I imagine the numbers of those technically challenged are far greater down than here, but then again it sounds like people on here still have problems with their printers ..LOL...

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Yet I imagine the numbers of those technically challenged are far greater down than here, but then again it sounds like people on here still have problems with their printers ..LOL...

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No, not necessarily technically challenged, I know quite a few guys that do not have cell phones, they say they have no reason to own one and are not interested, [ their choice ] the same goes for computers, not everyone has one , especially the older group or those living well out in the boonies.

This site is for Kentucky's new no tag system for carcasses...gives a good idea on how it works...

https://fw.ky.gov/Hunt/Pages/Recordi...nsporting.aspx

edit add; I see that they responded to hunters complaints that they had to have a pencil/pen..so they apparently changed to a tag that has a tear off portion now...

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Originally Posted by jaycee

No, not necessarily technically challenged, I know quite a few guys that do not have cell phones, they say they have no reason to own one and are not interested, [ their choice ] the same goes for computers, not everyone has one , especially the older group or those living well out in the boonies.

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The new system doesn't limit anyone who doesn't have a computer or printer....if they went to the DNR/MNR last year to pick up a tag they can still do it that way after the new system is in place.

No cell..then they must have access to a landline...I know because I don't carry a cell phone and would never have one with me when I was hunting, so I know where I can go to make a call if need be.

I'm sure a CO would understand and let you borrow his phone to register your deer if you had a convincing tale of woe..LOL..

Low percentage road blocks...resistance to change is futile...LOL..


(surely if some redneck old boy from southern Kentucky can figure it out Jaycee....LOL)

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Originally Posted by MikePal

The new system doesn't limit anyone who doesn't have a computer or printer....if they went to the DNR/MNR last year to pick up a tag they can still do it that way after the new system is in place.

No cell..then they must have access to a landline...I know because I don't carry a cell phone and would never have one with me when I was hunting, so I know where I can go to make a call if need be.

I'm sure a CO would understand and let you borrow his phone to register your deer if you had a convincing tale of woe..LOL..

Low percentage road blocks...resistance to change is futile...LOL..

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Again, you are not taking into account all the remote moose and bear camps that we have in Ontario. All the fly in camps and the not so uncommon atv only access camps. It doesn't take much to be out of signal range in the province. I guess every groups need to bring a satellite phone by 2019?

Peoples making decisions are rarely the ones on the ground and all they care is the bottom line (the saving $), why would they care if more people break the law?

Anyway, we'll see how it goes and for how long.

The new system doesn't limit anyone who doesn't have a computer or printer....if they went to the DNR/MNR last year to pick up a tag they can still do it that way after the new system is in place.

Which is what they are doing with no problems.

No cell..then they must have access to a landline...I know because I don't carry a cell phone and would never have one with me when I was hunting, so I know where I can go to make a call if need be.

And they again are carrying on as always with no problems .

.resistance to change is futile..

why so , some are happy with the status quo.

(surely if some redneck old boy from southern Kentucky can figure it out

I am sure there are almost as many rednecks here in Ontario as there are in Kentucky [LOL] there are a few living close by.

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Originally Posted by seabast

Again, you are not taking into account all the remote moose and bear camps that we have in Ontario.

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First off... "I'm" ..only facilitating the information..not making this up...

In most states I've read about this new system is that the deer registration number has to be called in " by 5pm the day after recovery"

So there is no need to phone in till your back into civilization and can access communications again....so it's not an issue of not having a cell service where you hunt, just have to do it once it's recovered (back to the truck etc...)

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Originally Posted by MikePal

First off... "I'm" ..only facilitating the information..not making this up...

In most states I've read about this new system is that the deer registration number has to be called in " by 5pm the day after recovery"

So there is no need to phone in till your back into civilization and can access communications again....so it's not an issue of not having a cell service where you hunt, just have to do it once it's recovered (back to the truck etc...)

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That would still be hard to do in some of the mountain states where access is by foot only and it takes two days to get into the area you want to hunt.
There are quite a few states where vehicular traffic and even horseback traffic is definitely prohibited.

There are a few guys from our club that travel two days by canoe to get into their hunt area in Northern Ontario, where they have absolutely no cell phone coverage, [ been there done that ].
The hunt camp where we are now, has no cell phone coverage, but we can get to where there is coverage fortunately , but it takes us a couple of hours travel by ATV to get there .
This would also apply to guys that fly in to hunt areas and arrangements are made for the outfitter to check in on them every 4 to 6/7 days .

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Originally Posted by jaycee

This would also apply to guys that fly in to hunt areas and arrangements are made for the outfitter to check in on them every 4 to 6/7 days .

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It says "5pm after recovery" that means if it takes 4 days to get it..recovered...you still have day to make the call...

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Originally Posted by MikePal

It says "5pm after recovery" that means if it takes 4 days to get it..recovered...you still have day to make the call...

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I am not saying that a phone in system would not work. what I am saying is that before something like this is implemented, there are many scenarios and what ifs that have to be thought about and worked out , to prevent problems and to be fair to all hunters, young ,old, new or experienced, and geographic areas have to be taken into consideration.
Poachers will always carry on as they have and are doing presently, hoping they will not be caught, and some will just pay the fine and do as they please as they always have.

Wow, Some people are really scared of changes. I embrace it lol. No, I just don't sweat the small stuff or what I can't control.

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Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Wow, Some people are really scared of changes. I embrace it lol. No, I just don't sweat the small stuff or what I can't control.

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I will accept changes any time , as long as they are better than what we have presently, a change just for something different without any improvement is just a waste of time, money and resources, which happens too often when our Governments are concerned.

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Originally Posted by jaycee

what I am saying is that before something like this is implemented, there are many scenarios and what ifs that have to be thought about and worked out , to prevent problems and to be fair to all hunters, young ,old, new or experienced, and geographic areas have to be taken into consideration.

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That's the point I made early on, this is not new. It's been tested and fielded for a few years now by many DNR/States down south..all the worries you guys are raising have been considered and addressed. It works.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaycee

Poachers will always carry on as they have and are doing presently, hoping they will not be caught, and some will just pay the fine and do as they please as they always have.

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"Dat be Tru"....there will always be the guys, who no matter what the law is, find a way to break it or just ignore it.

I have no problem with technology. I wonder though if these changes are more about cost savings for the MNR than convenience for the users. Has the MNR taken a look at abuse using this new technology (other areas have had these changes for a longer period of time)? I have a feeling it's all about the bottom line.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

This site is for Kentucky's new no tag system for carcasses...gives a good idea on how it works...

https://fw.ky.gov/Hunt/Pages/Recordi...nsporting.aspx

edit add; I see that they responded to hunters complaints that they had to have a pencil/pen..so they apparently changed to a tag that has a tear off portion now...

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One thing that you/we have to remember is that geography has a lot to do with enforcement.
The State of Kentucky , for comparison, has an area of 40,409.1 sq. mi. verses Ontario's 415,600 sq. mi. we are a little more than 10 times the size, and from info. I rec,d not long ago, we only have a total of 162 C.O,s , and most likely our budget is a lot less for game enforcement than Kentucky,s is., as the money generated goes into general funds and is used for most everything else, and a very small portion is allotted to the MNRF.

In the U.S. there are many places , fishing/hunting areas where you see signs posted that read something like this;
The facilities here are enabled through the use of funds from the Fishing and Hunting Licenses sold , also from the taxes collected by the Pittman Robertson Act, which we in Ontario have no such thing.

What works in one place, may not necessarily be the cure all end all in another.

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Originally Posted by jaycee

The State of Kentucky , for comparison, has an area of 40,409.1 sq. mi. verses Ontario's 415,600 sq. mi. we are a little more than 10 times the size,

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Since very little of Ontario's land mass is hunted, almost nill in the far north, hard to use that discrepancy with any value.

Ontario's population is 13 million about about 3x the population of Kentucky's popualtion of 4.4 million . I don't think there is a very big difference in Hunters per sq/km during the season. Not anything to warrant saying that we are 'so' much different that a system they use wouldn't work here.....you're grasping.

You'll have to face it Jaycee....this 'no need to tag the carcass' license system has been adopted by a lot of states already and more each year. They've worked out the bugs long ago and whether you think it will work or not, it's coming here next year

The MNR has done a cost analysis and it save money, is more efficient and easier to manage.. so in the end it's the way we're going.

Saw this in the OFAH AGM minutes....some further clarification...

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-Jamie Stewart: regulation changes as of January 01, 2019; outdoors cards down to
one card (no longer will the card be different depending what you are doing (apprentice,
fishing, hunting, etc.); technology in the software and on the card will allow/deny purchase
of tags;

must carry your PAL when you are transporting or hunting with falconry, any type of
gun or bow; this change will be on your current card renewal date or any new card after
January 01,2019; your current outdoors card is valid until your personal renewal date;


-you will now have to have a computer and printer and/or an electronic device a CO
can scan/verify your license/tag in the field;

-you have to setup a distinct password; licences and tags will be totally different;

-all licences you have qualified for will be on one piece of paper/document called “a summary”; you must print this piece of paper/document yourself;
you must have this document on you at all times;

all tags purchased will be also on this piece of paper/document; every time you purchase a new licence (license to hunt deer in 2019 for
example) this piece of paper/document will change and reflect this update;

you must print this updated piece of paper/document and carry this new one that makes your prior piece of
paper/document “VOID”;

-the tags will be totally different; each tag will carry detailed information on what it is
valid for and where (which WMUs); on each tag will be an Electronic Product Code –Radio
Frequency Identification (EPC-RFID) for MNRF confirmation even in the field (COs will have
readers); the same notch rules will apply;

-the tags will be printed on normal paper; there has been concern about tag durability; the tag must be attached to the harvested animal (there are commercially available plastic tag holders) or the tag and hunter must always be with the animal;

there is software (document security) in the document to prevent fraud by
photocopying; be sure your computer has its printer on-line plus the printer has paper and
ink - - you will only get ONE (01) chance to print your tag;

http://www.ofah.org/zonee/wp-content...-Comments.docx

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Since very little of Ontario's land mass is hunted, almost nill in the far north, hard to use that discrepancy with any value.

Ontario's population is 13 million about about 3x the population of Kentucky's popualtion of 4.4 million . I don't think there is a very big difference in Hunters per sq/km during the season. Not anything to warrant saying that we are 'so' much different that a system they use wouldn't work here.....you're grasping.

You'll have to face it Jaycee....this 'no need to tag the carcass' license system has been adopted by a lot of states already and more each year. They've worked out the bugs long ago and whether you think it will work or not, it's coming here next year

The MNR has done a cost analysis and it save money, is more efficient and easier to manage.. so in the end it's the way we're going.

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Not grasping at anything by any means , just noting that there are differences same as you do.
As for tagging carcass,s it makes no difference to me, I do it if I have to or don;t do it if not required.
As far as it being more efficient and easier to manage,that we will see and determine once it is in effect, and we all know how spendthrift and wasteful our Gov. is . Wynne ??????

Well all that makes life easier for us hunters,even if I thought about this really hard I don,t think I could f it up any more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaycee

The State of Kentucky , for comparison, has an area of 40,409.1 sq. mi. verses Ontario's 415,600 sq. mi. we are a little more than 10 times the size, and from info. I

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Since very little of Ontario's land mass is hunted, almost nill in the far north, hard to use that discrepancy with any value.

Ontario's population is 13 million about about 3x the population of Kentucky's popualtion of 4.4 million . I don't think there is a very big difference in Hunters per sq/km during the season.

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Southern Ontario south of the French River not including Algonquin park is 58,000 sq. miles. Adding in areas south of Highway 11 in NE Ontario and in NW ontario around Thunder bay, Atikokan, Fort Frances, Dryden and Kenora would likely bump this number to at least 150,000 sq. miles that sees regular hunting out of the 400,000+ available. I will assume that the162 COs quoted by someone else in Ontario is accurate. Most recent number I could find for Kentucky is 129 COs as of 2016. Next thing to consider is the number of hunters (not the actual populations as recruitment rates are different). OFAH estimates the number of hunters in Ontario at 450,000. US Census estimates the number of hunters in Kentucky at 347,000.

So now you have the data to draw whatever comparisons you want. I'll stay out of that bit.

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