Yeah 50 yards, Umm... No!

So I came across this on the wonderful world wide net.
The guy said he shot it at 50 yards with a crossbow and the deer turned.

Okay so this is a perfect example of what NOT to do and what boils my blood!Attachment 38864
I don't care how good of a shot someone says they are, or how fast their bow is, whether it be a crossbow or compound, etc., these bows despite what manufacturers say are not for long range shots on live targets. It's irresponsible! For a bow, anything past 30 yards is pushing it for the very reason shown in this photo. You're bow hunting. Learn to get close which is what bow hunting is about. It may shoot like a rifle but it's still a bow and a deer can still jump the string or turn like the one did above. The guy just got lucky is all!
What ticks e off is how many times things like this happen and they never find the animal. It's irresponsible to take long shots like this!!!

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kavanagh

So I came across this on the wonderful world wide net.
The guy said he shot it at 50 yards with a crossbow and the deer turned.

Okay so this is a perfect example of what NOT to do and what boils my blood!Attachment 38864
I don't care how good of a shot someone says they are, or how fast their bow is, whether it be a crossbow or compound, etc., these bows despite what manufacturers say are not for long range shots on live targets. It's irresponsible! For a bow, anything past 30 yards is pushing it for the very reason shown in this photo. You're bow hunting. Learn to get close which is what bow hunting is about. It may shoot like a rifle but it's still a bow and a deer can still jump the string like the one did above. The guy just got lucky is all!

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I absolutely agree. Some of the outdoor reality shows that show long range archery shots on Mule Deer and Elk,IMO,are extremely irresponsible and need to rethink their depiction of big game hunting.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I absolutely agree. Some of the outdoor reality shows that show long range archery shots on Mule Deer and Elk,IMO,are extremely irresponsible and need to rethink their depiction of big game hunting.

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What bothers me so much about this sort of thing is new, inexperienced hunters will see things like this and think that's the way it should be done. A new hunter won't know any different and not understand that regardless of what kind of bow you shoot, a deer can still very easily jump the string at those longer yardages. I hear people say all the time, "I made that shot at 45 or 60 yards", and brag. That's not okay though because with a live animal things can go bad very fast and very easily.
Basically I posted this for the new hunters out there who think it's okay. It's not!

Jeff... I agree 100% with everything you've said here. The new bows are fast, but the speed of sound is much faster. String jump will still be a problem. Realistically, these new bows have added 5 to 10 yards over the crossbows that were available 10 years ago.

Someone once said here, and I fully agree, if they could make a silent Excalibur Vixen, it's all you would ever need.

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Anybody who has any experience in Bow Hunting has seen string jump and seen how a good shot can go bad real fast when a animal has time to move before the arrow gets there.

I have arcs of fire ranged off at 30 yds and the the trees marked.....won't take as hot farther than that no mater how many points it has.

A lot of guys don’t realize how far 50 yds actually is !
IMHO, even with the fast bows now, it’s too far. All my deer have been shot at 10 yds or less, bow deer that is !!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kavanagh

What bothers me so much about this sort of thing is new, inexperienced hunters will see things like this and think that's the way it should be done. A new hunter won't know any different and not understand that regardless of what kind of bow you shoot, a deer can still very easily jump the string at those longer yardages. I hear people say all the time, "I made that shot at 45 or 60 yards", and brag. That's not okay though because with a live animal things can go bad very fast and very easily.
Basically I posted this for the new hunters out there who think it's okay. It's not!

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You are right Jeff-THESE kind of things would HAVE to be included in the Hunting course-what NOT do to.AND why!

Anyhow,i passed on more then one deer because the exact same reason.I have let the biggest buck in my life walk(never to come back)because he was 50 yards.He was full broadside,and he did not move.Yet i decided not to shoot ,because of the distance,and the many things can go wrong by the time the arrow gets there.
Good topic for Young hunters...........and the rest too.

Crossbow mfrs and "learn your arc" optics being advertised mentioning 100 yard distances doesn't help either.

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Originally Posted by canthitathing

Crossbow mfrs and "learn your arc" optics being advertised mentioning 100 yard distances doesn't help either.

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Yes, that's just it and where much of the problem comes from. Manufacturers keep pushing and promising ridiculous things to compete and try and sell a product. The entire industry is bent on moving product. It all gets pushed down the line and puts a message out there which is very, very wrong for new and inexperienced hunters.

I think that some hunters panic, thinking they may not get another chance and shoot off a hail Mary.

You do have to consider the speed of the arrow though, or in this case bolt. I was given a ton of crap for a measured 42 yard shot on a doe a couple years back, my bolt actually ticked off a sabling right in front of the doe or deflected off a rib on entrance but took out 1 lung and the liver and was down in no time.

The bow I used was an Excalibur Exomax at 350fps, this range is about the limit for me with this speed.

The thing that you have to consider is that 30 yards has been the "limit" when people talk about bow hunting for a very long time, that "limit" was there when arrows only traveled 250-275fps. The time for the bolt to reach the deer with an older 150lb bow at 250fps is about the same as my Exomax at 350fps. 50 yards is really getting out there and they do jump but to consider a "limit" for range must be determined by the equipment and not the number as well.

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Originally Posted by Fox

my bolt actually ticked off a sabling right in front of the doe

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Respectfully I'm going to have to disagree with you here, one of the reasons being what you wrote above.
There are just so many different variables involved at taking longer shots. Keeping that range to around 30 or less just helps control that a bit more, especially for newer, more inexperienced hunters.
One of the most important factors an inexperienced hunter has to learn when bow hunting is "when to take the shot".
If I had a dollar for every time I let one walk just because the timing wasn't right. What frame of mind was the deer in at the time? Was it tense, relaxed, etc? Those factors have everything to do with being successful or not and are factors which an inexperienced hunter will not understand until they get out there.
Personally, my favorite distance is around twenty yards. I do all my hunting on the ground and I find the closer I am, the more difficult it is for me to make that big action of drawing my bow to shoot without getting busted.
I watch hunting shows and videos and watch as people "Mhea" at the deer to stop it before they shoot. I disagree with that. I'd much rather take a deer at a slow relaxed walk than, stop it and alert it like that where it goes all tense.
Also, I'm talking mostly about deer here as they have the insane ability to avoid an arrow which most other animals don't.

I agree that long shots are just too unreliable. Use a range finder and know that your deer is within 30 yards and is presenting you with a kill shot.

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kavanagh

Respectfully I'm going to have to disagree with you here, one of the reasons being what you wrote above.
There are just so many different variables involved at taking longer shots. Keeping that range to around 30 or less just helps control that a bit more, especially for newer, more inexperienced hunters.
One of the most important factors an inexperienced hunter has to learn when bow hunting is "when to take the shot".
If I had a dollar for every time I let one walk just because the timing wasn't right. What frame of mind was the deer in at the time? Was it tense, relaxed, etc? Those factors have everything to do with being successful or not and are factors which an inexperienced hunter will not understand until they get out there.
Personally, my favorite distance is around twenty yards. I do all my hunting on the ground and I find the closer I am, the more difficult it is for me to make that big action of drawing my bow to shoot without getting busted.
I watch hunting shows and videos and watch as people "Mhea" at the deer to stop it before they shoot. I disagree with that. I'd much rather take a deer at a slow relaxed walk than, stop it and alert it like that where it goes all tense.
Also, I'm talking mostly about deer here as they have the insane ability to avoid an arrow which most other animals don't.

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41.5 yards was open field, she stepped out of the edge of the field and I did not see the saplings within a foot or two of her, this was not something of longer range. The bolt entered just behind the front leg, as I had aimed but exited back after taking out the liver. I am assuming it clipped one of those twigs but it could have been a rib on entry.

That same situation could easily have occurred with your shot at 20 yards, there was nothing but a bean field for the first 41.5 yards or more of the shot.

She walked out to the edge and looked right at us, was not spooked, tail down, just looked at us before coming out into the field and I took a 100% ethical shot and got my deer. I will take that shot 100% of the time. With my long bow I would not take that shot, with my old crossbow (Crissbow Cheetah) I have passed up shots closer than that. Equipment does have an impact on things.

If your arrow takes 0.3 seconds to get to the target at 20 yards and at 40 yards the 40 yard shot will not allow the deer any more time to jump the string than that of the 20 yard shot.

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Originally Posted by Fox

41.5 yards was open field, she stepped out of the edge of the field and I did not see the saplings within a foot or two of her, this was not something of longer range. The bolt entered just behind the front leg, as I had aimed but exited back after taking out the liver. I am assuming it clipped one of those twigs but it could have been a rib on entry.

That same situation could easily have occurred with your shot at 20 yards, there was nothing but a bean field for the first 41.5 yards or more of the shot.

She walked out to the edge and looked right at us, was not spooked, tail down, just looked at us before coming out into the field and I took a 100% ethical shot and got my deer. I will take that shot 100% of the time. With my long bow I would not take that shot, with my old crossbow (Crissbow Cheetah) I have passed up shots closer than that. Equipment does have an impact on things.

If your arrow takes 3 seconds to get to the target at 20 yards and at 40 yards the 40 yard shot will not allow the deer any more time to jump the string than that of the 20 yard shot.

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This post is more so directed at new hunters, and what I am trying to convey is the importance of keeping those shooting distances within range. We all know that every hunting situation is different. The new hunter though, with all the hype which is out there are being taught that those longer shot, 40 yards, 50 yards, 60 yards, etc., are good shots to take. They are not, especially on an animal like a deer.
Just say'n.

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Originally Posted by Fox

41.5 yards was open field, she stepped out of the edge of the field and I did not see the saplings within a foot or two of her, this was not something of longer range. The bolt entered just behind the front leg, as I had aimed but exited back after taking out the liver. I am assuming it clipped one of those twigs but it could have been a rib on entry.

That same situation could easily have occurred with your shot at 20 yards, there was nothing but a bean field for the first 41.5 yards or more of the shot.

She walked out to the edge and looked right at us, was not spooked, tail down, just looked at us before coming out into the field and I took a 100% ethical shot and got my deer. I will take that shot 100% of the time. With my long bow I would not take that shot, with my old crossbow (Crissbow Cheetah) I have passed up shots closer than that. Equipment does have an impact on things.

If your arrow takes 3 seconds to get to the target at 20 yards and at 40 yards the 40 yard shot will not allow the deer any more time to jump the string than that of the 20 yard shot.

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Also, I have to disagree again. At the chrono the arrow is flying faster but we don't know the speed at 20 yards or 30 yards. It has slown down considerably by that point. That bolt isn't going 350 anymore.

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kavanagh

Also, I have to disagree again. At the chrono the arrow is flying faster but we don't know the speed at 20 yards or 30 yards. It has slown down considerably by that point. That bolt isn't going 350 anymore.

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No it is now, but the one starting out at 250fps is not going that speed either at 20 or 30 yards.

The picture you sent was probably shot at a deer on the move and starting to turn when the guy shot. That was a poor shot opportunity and possibly from someone who had their head into a gun shot rather than an arrow.

You see so many people shooting 5 shots or less to make sure their gun is on and nothing more through a season, this is bow, rifle, shotgun, etc. These people are the ones taking bad shots, I hope they all miss rather than take out a leg or a gut shot that takes days to die.

The performance of your equipment determines it's capabilities

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Originally Posted by Fox

No it is now, but the one starting out at 250fps is not going that speed either at 20 or 30 yards.

The picture you sent was probably shot at a deer on the move and starting to turn when the guy shot. That was a poor shot opportunity and possibly from someone who had their head into a gun shot rather than an arrow.

You see so many people shooting 5 shots or less to make sure their gun is on and nothing more through a season, this is bow, rifle, shotgun, etc. These people are the ones taking bad shots, I hope they all miss rather than take out a leg or a gut shot that takes days to die.

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Or maybe the deer in the picture was stationary and shot at 50 yards because the shooter believed his crossbow to be so fast that a deer couldn't possibly jump the string.

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Originally Posted by GW11

Or maybe the deer in the picture was stationary and shot at 50 yards because the shooter believed his crossbow to be so fast that a deer couldn't possibly jump the string.

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Possible, but the crossbow used would be a question. I do not think that a high end high speed crossbow would allow for much string jump but a slower crossbow it would be possible.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Possible, but the crossbow used would be a question. I do not think that a high end high speed crossbow would allow for much string jump but a slower crossbow it would be possible.

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The OP's point is that there isn't a crossbow on the market that can beat a deer's reaction time at that range. He's right.

Just do the math.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

The OP's point is that there isn't a crossbow on the market that can beat a deer's reaction time at that range. He's right.

Just do the math.

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I did, back in the way when we all ran 150lb bows at 250fps people would say not to shoot deer at anything more than 30 yards. The speed that the bolt moves now in a high speed bow (420fps) the time that the arrow is in the air before it gets to the animal is about the same at 50 yards as the old bows were at 30 yards. You cannot say that the deer's reaction time has sped up with evolution, the deer could jump the string at 30 yards in the past the same way as they are jumping the string at 50 yards now.

If a 150lb bow at 250fps shooting at 30 yards is ethical based on animals jumping the string then a 420fps bow at 50 yards is exactly the same thing. If your issue is deflection off a branch then your environment is a larger factor and that is an entirely different issue.

I agree with Fox, the speeds of new xbows have to be taken into consideration. Flight times sure change with faster speeds.

There are other schools of thought too. Deer don’t “jump” the string. The lowering of the deer is the result of it crouching to load up energy in its legs to jump and take off. It’s a reaction to the sudden noise caused by the bow going off.
This all was explained to me many years ago. A deer’s natural reaction to the sudden noise that is within 20 or so yards of the deer, is to jump and take off without really knowing what the noise was. A deer that is relaxed at a greater distance from an unknown noise, tends to look to see what the noise was, to possibly identify a threat. This is why you bleat at a deer to stop it for a shot at distance (rifle).
This explanation seems to make sense. I have had good luck stopping deer at a distance, to allow a good rifle shot.
I bleated at a big buck once that was about 10 yds away and walking like he was on a mission. That deer dropped and took off out to about 40 yds, then stopped and turned around to see what the noise was. It was too far for me to shoot....

At 50 yards a deer has 1/3 of a second to move between the time the sound of the shot arrives and the time it takes for a bolt averaging 350 fps to cross the distance.

Maybe some people believe a deer can't move much in 1/3 of a second. It's plenty of time for things to end up like the picture in the OP.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

At 50 yards a deer has 1/3 of a second to move between the time the sound of the shot arrives and the time it takes for a bolt averaging 350 fps to cross the distance.

Maybe some people believe a deer can't move much in 1/3 of a second. It's plenty of time for things to end up like the picture in the OP.

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Agree with you GW11.

Here's a table of arrow speeds and time to distance (Dt is the difference in time between the sound and the arrow arriving).
A deer's reaction time is supposed to be about 0.12 seconds.
IMO - if you go beyond the 0.20 you're putting quite a bit of weight on "luck".
Nothing wrong with that - just as long as your aware of it.
For a simple comparison, 300fps@20 is about the same as 400@30.

Sound Sp Arrow Sp Dt@20 Dt@30 Dt@40 Dt@50
1125 250 0.187 0.280 0.373 0.467
1125 275 0.165 0.247 0.330 0.412
1125 300 0.147 0.220 0.293 0.367
1125 325 0.131 0.197 0.263 0.328
1125 350 0.118 0.177 0.236 0.295
1125 400 0.097 0.145 0.193 0.242

Deer reaction time 0.12 sec

Again, so much of it has to do with having the experience to "read" what the deer is doing. A new, inexperienced hunter won't be able to. If they start trying to take shots at those farther distances they are just asking for trouble. Beside, bow hunting is about getting close anyway.

That arrow looks to be a regular arrow shot from a bow, not a cross bow, anyway, how many deer are shot with a gun and never recovered? It doesnt matter what you choose to take your game with, because if you're not doing it right, things go bad....

The level of confidence in archery, including max. shooting distance on a certain game, depend on many factors. Especially these days.
A seasoned shooter's 40 yards + consistency will exceed a novice's 20 yards best ever shooting.
Practice, learn, know your game, understand your limits.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Agree with you GW11.

Here's a table of arrow speeds and time to distance (Dt is the difference in time between the sound and the arrow arriving).
A deer's reaction time is supposed to be about 0.12 seconds.
IMO - if you go beyond the 0.20 you're putting quite a bit of weight on "luck".
Nothing wrong with that - just as long as your aware of it.
For a simple comparison, 300fps@20 is about the same as 400@30.

Sound Sp Arrow Sp Dt@20 Dt@30 Dt@40 Dt@50
1125 250 0.187 0.280 0.373 0.467
1125 275 0.165 0.247 0.330 0.412
1125 300 0.147 0.220 0.293 0.367
1125 325 0.131 0.197 0.263 0.328
1125 350 0.118 0.177 0.236 0.295
1125 400 0.097 0.145 0.193 0.242

Deer reaction time 0.12 sec

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I did up similar charts at both -20 air and +20 air a few years ago. Essentially no difference even though sound is 6 or 7% slower at -20. My charts were also based on 0.2 seconds being the acceptable limit.

+20 Chart:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...93a23020_k.jpg

-20 Chart:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...4e5b6a4a_k.jpg

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Originally Posted by G.S.

The level of confidence in archery, including max. shooting distance on a certain game, depend on many factors. Especially these days.
A seasoned shooter's 40 yards + consistency will exceed a novice's 20 yards best ever shooting.
Practice, learn, know your game, understand your limits.

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Sound does not travel slower for experience hunters.

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Originally Posted by Species8472

I did up similar charts at both -20 air and +20 air a few years ago. Essentially no difference even though sound is 6 or 7% slower at -20. My charts were also based on 0.2 seconds being the acceptable limit.

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0.2 seconds is the time for the deer to react but they still have to move. A shot to the center of the vitals give you about 3in in all directions of travel.

Since most archery shooters considered 30 yards acceptable back in the days of the 250fps crossbow you are looking at about .275-.280 seconds based on your chart as an acceptable window.

That would stretch the reaction time + movement of the deer out to between 45 and 50 yards for a 350fps bolt and 60-65 yards for a 425fps bolt. Yes there is a drop in speed at range but there is a drop for close range too, so by comparison they are the same.

A calm deer also will not react as quickly as one on edge already.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kavanagh

Again, so much of it has to do with having the experience to "read" what the deer is doing. A new, inexperienced hunter won't be able to. If they start trying to take shots at those farther distances they are just asking for trouble. Beside, bow hunting is about getting close anyway.

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Just because you feel 30yds is your max doesn't mean it should for everybody else.
This sounds like other topics about rifles, "I cant shoot well past 100yds, so nobody else has any business doing so".
Not all gear performs the same, maybe the performance of your gear should also be considered as well as user skill.
Just the same not every deer jumps from a 40+yd shot...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

At 50 yards a deer has 1/3 of a second to move between the time the sound of the shot arrives and the time it takes for a bolt averaging 350 fps to cross the distance.

Maybe some people believe a deer can't move much in 1/3 of a second. It's plenty of time for things to end up like the picture in the OP.

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A deer at 50 yds will not bolt until it recognizes a threat. It typically will turn and look to see what a noise is. A deer at 20 yds tends to bolt and then stop to see what the noise was to identify it as a threat or not.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Sound does not travel slower for experience hunters.

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That simple statement is always correct, could only hoped you would understand more

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

A deer at 50 yds will not bolt until it recognizes a threat. It typically will turn and look to see what a noise is. A deer at 20 yds tends to bolt and then stop to see what the noise was to identify it as a threat or not.

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I would agree and have seen the same for the most part, with the exception being if the deer already suspects something is wrong or is on alert, in which case they'll bolt at 50 too. Some newer hunters don't recognize the body language of a deer enough to know if a long shot is a good idea or not, which is what the OP is getting at. Keep it close, and you don't have to worry about whether or not the deer moves because it won't matter, they won't have time.

We have guys in this thread arguing that skills and equipment outweigh simple physics. One of these guys has already experienced string jump to an extent, refuses to see it, and tries to explain the strange wound angle with branch or rib deflections. Even though he stated that the deer looked at him first before he shot it at over 40 yards. The simple explanation is the deer saw him and was starting to bolt when it heard his crossbow, resulting in a strange angle of entry and a lucky recovery.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fox

0.2 seconds is the time for the deer to react but they still have to move. A shot to the center of the vitals give you about 3in in all directions of travel.

Since most archery shooters considered 30 yards acceptable back in the days of the 250fps crossbow you are looking at about .275-.280 seconds based on your chart as an acceptable window.

That would stretch the reaction time + movement of the deer out to between 45 and 50 yards for a 350fps bolt and 60-65 yards for a 425fps bolt. Yes there is a drop in speed at range but there is a drop for close range too, so by comparison they are the same.

A calm deer also will not react as quickly as one on edge already.

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Reaction time is the time it takes for a reaction to occur. Same way you don't have to think about flinching at a loud noise, a deer doesn't have to think about moving, the movement is the automatic reaction.

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Seen an American on his last day shoot at a Caribou 72 yards away with a compound bow. Hit it good and luckily recovered it not too far away. I couldn’t say too much after missing a nice one with a rifle earlier in the week. Luck, Skills? Or both. I know he practices 365 Days a year and hunts 200 to 250 days per year. Not for everyone that’s for sure

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Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Seen an American on his last day shoot at a Caribou 72 yards away with a compound bow. Hit it good and luckily recovered it not too far away. I couldn’t say too much after missing a nice one with a rifle earlier in the week. Luck, Skills? Or both. I know he practices 365 Days a year and hunts 200 to 250 days per year. Not for everyone that’s for sure

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Not challenging but the most "nervous"big game animal in NA is the Whitetail deer.
One of the most relaxed animal is the caribou.

I hunted with a similar guy ,who bragged all day long about him hitting 100% of the time a pie plate at 80 yards(good measurable if You ask me-pie plate 100% hit is the measurable for accuracy and consistency.)Skill and equipemnt came together too.
So he shot under a moose,and went home empty handed ,yet the moose was "only" 60 yards...and it was standing still.Not for long though.........
He misjudged the distance.
Good on him-he ate a humble pie,hopefully learned a lesson or two,and even better on the bull moose(at least it was not wounded ,perhaps never to be recovered).
He was told-You hit a Pope and Young-----poplar.


This is one part of the equation,equipment,shooter ,all can be there-but the animal has to COOPERATE,and the distance has to be accurate.
Then there should be no invisible sapling,no tremors,no wind beyond reason,no strange angle,no pin or cross hair hiding most of the vitals -just to name a few small issues ( for the "sure i can do it "ppl)

Short and sweet,long and dicey...........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

Reaction time is the time it takes for a reaction to occur. Same way you don't have to think about flinching at a loud noise, a deer doesn't have to think about moving, the movement is the automatic reaction.

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Is 30 yards an ethical shot with a 250fps crossbow, like an Excalibur Wolverine with 150lbs of draw?

If so then the math shows that 50 yards with a high speed bow is no different for reaction time, the numbers are the numbers.

It makes a huge difference if your engaging the deer deep in the woods with a thick overhead canopy vs shooting from a tree line into a field. The sound in a sheltered area seem to alarm them in to their 'flight or fight' reaction where as on a field all it does sometime is get their attention.

One of my very early learning experiences: Tree stand deep in the hard woods, a 35yd shot with a 150 lb x-bow. Point of aim to the heart..I could see the arrow in flight as I watched the deer do a 180 and the arrow embed itself in the rear hind quarter on the opposite side from where I was aiming when I pulled the trigger. I was amazed to see how fast he was able to move.

Lost that deer, with a bad hit, little blood and dark by then, I went home and went back a dawn. Did track him for a long time but lost the blood trail.
I have never engaged a bow hunting beyond 30 yds since. Let a lot walk over the years, all it took was one time to sink it in that it wasn't worth pushing the limits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fox

Is 30 yards an ethical shot with a 250fps crossbow, like an Excalibur Wolverine with 150lbs of draw?

If so then the math shows that 50 yards with a high speed bow is no different for reaction time, the numbers are the numbers.

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I won't speak to the ethics of it, that's up to you to decide.

After some experiences I've had with a 175 lb bow at less than 30 yards, I now take a 30 yard shot on a high strung animal like deer very seriously. I also aim lower than I feel like I should have to as the range gets farther to account for the deer's reaction (which is to drop or crouch in anticipation to run). That way if it "jumps the string", or reacts to the shot, I'll still catch the lungs. If it doesn't, I'll hit the heart. That's a good tip for beginners to take note of.

With a 150 pound bow I probably wouldn't be comfortable with a 30 yard shot unless conditions were absolutely in my favour, and they rarely are. 25 yards or less would be a green light, with 20 being more ideal.

Call me conservative, but I prefer short tracking jobs.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fox

I did, back in the way when we all ran 150lb bows at 250fps people would say not to shoot deer at anything more than 30 yards. The speed that the bolt moves now in a high speed bow (420fps) the time that the arrow is in the air before it gets to the animal is about the same at 50 yards as the old bows were at 30 yards. You cannot say that the deer's reaction time has sped up with evolution, the deer could jump the string at 30 yards in the past the same way as they are jumping the string at 50 yards now.

If a 150lb bow at 250fps shooting at 30 yards is ethical based on animals jumping the string then a 420fps bow at 50 yards is exactly the same thing. If your issue is deflection off a branch then your environment is a larger factor and that is an entirely different issue.

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Fox, some people won't accept the fact that some new equipment performs at a higher level than older stuff. Or they don't know how to do math...

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Originally Posted by GW11

I won't speak to the ethics of it, that's up to you to decide.

After some experiences I've had with a 175 lb bow at less than 30 yards, I now take a 30 yard shot on a high strung animal like deer very seriously. I also aim lower than I feel like I should have to as the range gets farther to account for the deer's reaction (which is to drop or crouch in anticipation to run). That way if it "jumps the string", or reacts to the shot, I'll still catch the lungs. If it doesn't, I'll hit the heart. That's a good tip for beginners to take note of.

With a 150 pound bow I probably wouldn't be comfortable with a 30 yard shot unless conditions were absolutely in my favour, and they rarely are. 25 yards or less would be a green light, with 20 being more ideal.

Call me conservative, but I prefer short tracking jobs.

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What about a long bow or a recurve? Would you limit your shots to 8-10 yards?

What I am getting at is that the math proves that the time the arrow is in flight for heavier poundage bows is about the same as the older bows where everyone preached 30 yards. If you are 20 yards for the 150lb bow based on your ethics then the arrow would get there in the same time as a 40 yard shot with a newer bow and therefore the reaction of the animal would be the same.

I can tell you with my 42 yard shot that the deer did not jump or move, at 350fps you are not watching the arrow in flight the arrow is just there. My old bow I used to hold high at 50 yards and shoot at targets all the time, would never have considered that bow at 50 yards, passed up shots at 35 and 40 yards, it was a 30 yard shot bow and my single pin was setup at 20 yards for that particular setup. With the Exomag I have no problems at all at 40 yards, 50 yards is not for me with my setup, not at the moment, then again with the newer iteration of the arrows I am using the speed has actually increased and the trajectory is even flatter than before.

I tend to set my self up so that any animal coming out to me with a clear shot is within my window, it takes the question of "should I?" out of it, there is no chance I can take a shot over my ethical range because I cannot see the deer with a clear shot over that mark. I will not take a 60 yard shot on a deer although I know of guys killing them at 65 with a crossbow, I do not think it is right. That being said I do not think based on 1 setup anyone can make a determination on every single setup that exists in every circumstance as was presented here. To say no to a 50 yard shot and to keep it at 30 may be justified with some bows but then again a 30 yard shot is too long for many with traditional archery and 50 is no big deal with another.

It is like saying nobody should shoot at a deer with a shotgun over 50 yards. Well, what are you shooting? What sights? What ammo? How much practice? Is the animal moving? Etc.

It is a blanket statement that is too broad.

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Originally Posted by GW11

We have guys in this thread arguing that skills and equipment outweigh simple physics.

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250fps is not the same as 420fps, it's simple physics, they don't perform the same.

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

250fps is not the same as 420fps, it's simple physics, they don't perform the same.

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250 fps is 22% the speed of sound. 420 fps is 37% the speed of sound. You've gained 15% on the speed of sound. So... you can stretch a 30 yard shot to 34.5.

It really isn't that difficult. You're a marketer's dream.

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Originally Posted by Fox

What about a long bow or a recurve? Would you limit your shots to 8-10 yards?

What I am getting at is that the math proves that the time the arrow is in flight for heavier poundage bows is about the same as the older bows where everyone preached 30 yards. If you are 20 yards for the 150lb bow based on your ethics then the arrow would get there in the same time as a 40 yard shot with a newer bow and therefore the reaction of the animal would be the same.

I can tell you with my 42 yard shot that the deer did not jump or move, at 350fps you are not watching the arrow in flight the arrow is just there. My old bow I used to hold high at 50 yards and shoot at targets all the time, would never have considered that bow at 50 yards, passed up shots at 35 and 40 yards, it was a 30 yard shot bow and my single pin was setup at 20 yards for that particular setup. With the Exomag I have no problems at all at 40 yards, 50 yards is not for me with my setup, not at the moment, then again with the newer iteration of the arrows I am using the speed has actually increased and the trajectory is even flatter than before.

I tend to set my self up so that any animal coming out to me with a clear shot is within my window, it takes the question of "should I?" out of it, there is no chance I can take a shot over my ethical range because I cannot see the deer with a clear shot over that mark. I will not take a 60 yard shot on a deer although I know of guys killing them at 65 with a crossbow, I do not think it is right. That being said I do not think based on 1 setup anyone can make a determination on every single setup that exists in every circumstance as was presented here. To say no to a 50 yard shot and to keep it at 30 may be justified with some bows but then again a 30 yard shot is too long for many with traditional archery and 50 is no big deal with another.

It is like saying nobody should shoot at a deer with a shotgun over 50 yards. Well, what are you shooting? What sights? What ammo? How much practice? Is the animal moving? Etc.

It is a blanket statement that is too broad.

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With all due respect Fox, you don't know yet whether you're going run into problems or not. It worked out last time, but it might not next time. If you're ok with that, that's fine.

Nobody has to listen to any of the suggestions I've made here. Most of us learn our hunting lessons the hard way. As MikePal said above, he limited his range to 30 yards after losing a deer. I did the same. It's not worth the frustration and sick feeling to put 100% of your faith in the equipment.

Set up safely at 40 yards (you parallel to the target) and have someone shoot your Exomax and see how much you can move between the sound of the shot and the thunk of the bolt in the block. Assume that a deer can move a lot faster than you. Then come back and tell me that it can't happen.






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As a bowhunter, there's never a good time for a deer to know you are visually locked on them. The drop in a deer's chest can be anywhere from a flinch, to the deers brisket touching the ground, depending on the energy they put into it. Every single encounter can have a different response. But if the deer is alert and locked on you, you can bet it'll be the latter.
It's just another of the many variables that go into "the shot", in a whitetail bow hunters world.
Go easy on one another, you're all going to make mistakes when "the shot" presents itself if you hunt long enough. The bowhunters who are successful year after year are the hunters who've made mistakes and are honest with themselves about their limitations and work hard to stay within them.

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Originally Posted by GW11

250 fps is 22% the speed of sound. 420 fps is 37% the speed of sound. You've gained 15% on the speed of sound. So... you can stretch a 30 yard shot to 34.5.

It really isn't that difficult. You're a marketer's dream.

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The bolt travel time is the damn near the same at 30yds@250fps as 50yds@420 according to the chart posted. Actually the slower bow is slower to 30 than the faster bow at 50.....

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Originally Posted by GW11

250 fps is 22% the speed of sound. 420 fps is 37% the speed of sound. You've gained 15% on the speed of sound. So... you can stretch a 30 yard shot to 34.5.

It really isn't that difficult. You're a marketer's dream.

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Hey GW11 - generally I see this mostly from your side - but your math is wrong.

***corrected math***

425 fps is about 170% of 250 - so you're gaining about 70% so a 30 yard can be stretched to 51.

A couple other things that have been left out is that all our math is being done with muzzle velocity (don't know the term for bolts) which will:
- decrease faster for bolts with a higher speed
- increases the error on calculation exponentially as distance is increase

Another thing deer can figure out is distance to noise - a noise at 20 yards is far more alarming than a noise at 40 yards.

Personally me - I limit my shots to about 25 yards - that's with a 305 fps xbow.
It's only cost me one chance in 12 years - but he was a nice buck and it was late in the season - so that stung a bit.

I also don't shoot if the deer is looking in my direction - then it's not the speed of sound you're competing with, but the speed of light - but that's a whole other can of worms.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Hey GW11 - generally I see this mostly from your side - but your math is wrong.

***corrected math***

425 fps is about 170% of 250 - so you're gaining about 70% so a 30 yard can be stretched to 51.

A couple other things that have been left out is that all our math is being done with muzzle velocity (don't know the term for bolts) which will:
- decrease faster for bolts with a higher speed
- increases the error on calculation exponentially as distance is increase

Another thing deer can figure out is distance to noise - a noise at 20 yards is far more alarming than a noise at 40 yards.

Personally me - I limit my shots to about 25 yards - that's with a 305 fps xbow.
I also don't shoot if the deer is looking in my direction - then it's not the speed of sound you're competing with, but the speed of light - but that's a whole other can of worms.

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Creative math maybe? Haha.

My point was that an increase in raw speed in a crossbow is still not a huge increase when measured against the speed of sound. Your version matches the chart posted by Species, which also addresses Canadaman's comment earlier. Both 30 (for 250 fps) and 50 (for 425 fps) have about the same travel time, but are both too far when compared to reaction time. Also, as you said, the assumption that a bolt maintains 425 fps for 50 yards is highly unlikely.

Thanks for clearing that up.

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Arrow or bolt I think anything over 30yds is talking a chance no matter how good your bow is. Too many variables

I did some target practice yesterday with my Scorpyd Death stalker at 40yards. Shooting sub 1" groups.

Would I shoot a deer at 40yards?

Everything would need to be perfect and things are never really perfect when your deer hunting... :)

I much prefer the 20 and under shots... :)

https://images2.imgbox.com/b1/14/7LTqy4XT_o.jpg

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Originally Posted by GW11

250 fps is 22% the speed of sound. 420 fps is 37% the speed of sound. You've gained 15% on the speed of sound. So... you can stretch a 30 yard shot to 34.5.

It really isn't that difficult. You're a marketer's dream.

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wish there was a like button on this forum lol

I think your math is off but the marketers dream comment cracked me up.

If you wanna kill it
You have to shoot at it

I think even a 30 yard shot can be tricky in the bush, I ve held up some shots at 30 yards as too many little saplings on the way to the deer, you hit a sapling and can deflect an arrow right into a shoulder. I have shot my Excalibur at 50 and 60 yards and been dead on, but that's in a field with nothing between me and the target. I have only ever taken 1 deer at just over 30 yards and that was a cut bean field. In the bush it has to be a pretty perfect shot at over 25 yards for me to even think about. Ive lost a deer and hate the feeling...Id rather sit at night and think dam should of taken the shot than to sit and wonder why the heck did I take that shot...that's just me

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Originally Posted by hockeymjt

I think even a 30 yard shot can be tricky in the bush, I ve held up some shots at 30 yards as too many little saplings on the way to the deer, you hit a sapling and can deflect an arrow right into a shoulder. I have shot my Excalibur at 50 and 60 yards and been dead on, but that's in a field with nothing between me and the target. I have only ever taken 1 deer at just over 30 yards and that was a cut bean field. In the bush it has to be a pretty perfect shot at over 25 yards for me to even think about. Ive lost a deer and hate the feeling...Id rather sit at night and think dam should of taken the shot than to sit and wonder why the heck did I take that shot...that's just me

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Well said, same here regardless what I’m hunting with.

This came across my FB feed and it's somewhat pertinent to this thread. Great shot made but it's amazing how fast those deer crouch and take off.

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/heart...mpaign=wosfeed

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kavanagh

So I came across this on the wonderful world wide net.
The guy said he shot it at 50 yards with a crossbow and the deer turned.

Okay so this is a perfect example of what NOT to do and what boils my blood!Attachment 38864
I don't care how good of a shot someone says they are, or how fast their bow is, whether it be a crossbow or compound, etc., these bows despite what manufacturers say are not for long range shots on live targets. It's irresponsible! For a bow, anything past 30 yards is pushing it for the very reason shown in this photo. You're bow hunting. Learn to get close which is what bow hunting is about. It may shoot like a rifle but it's still a bow and a deer can still jump the string or turn like the one did above. The guy just got lucky is all!
What ticks e off is how many times things like this happen and they never find the animal. It's irresponsible to take long shots like this!!!

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I would like to commend Jeff for starting this post--firstly because I believe that some people reading this who are new to archery will learn from this post and the conversation that it has created, and secondly that there will be one less deer shot, wounded and lost because of the experiences shared--I sell archery equipment in an outdoor store and could not tell you how many people come in and brag about their ability to hit a target at fifty or sixty yards and the fact that they do not understand a deer's ability to jump a string--even with the fastest bows /crossbows out there --most experienced hunters that I know will rarely shoot past 30 yards-simple math the longer the shot the greater the odds of that deer jumping the string---hope everyone has a safe and productive season!

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Originally Posted by stilchen67

I would like to commend Jeff for starting this post--firstly because I believe that some people reading this who are new to archery will learn from this post and the conversation that it has created, and secondly that there will be one less deer shot, wounded and lost because of the experiences shared--I sell archery equipment in an outdoor store and could not tell you how many people come in and brag about their ability to hit a target at fifty or sixty yards and the fact that they do not understand a deer's ability to jump a string--even with the fastest bows /crossbows out there --most experienced hunters that I know will rarely shoot past 30 yards-simple math the longer the shot the greater the odds of that deer jumping the string---hope everyone has a safe and productive season!

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Going back to the original post and picture of the dead deer, take a close look at the arrow/ bolt ??? is that nock on the so called crossbow bolt, not a nock from a standard type bow ?
I am not a crossbow shooter, but everyone that I know that uses/shoots crossbows, also have on their bolts, flat faced nocks, therefore it makes me wonder about the equipment used in this picture ?

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Originally Posted by hockeymjt

I think even a 30 yard shot can be tricky in the bush, I ve held up some shots at 30 yards as too many little saplings on the way to the deer, you hit a sapling and can deflect an arrow right into a shoulder. I have shot my Excalibur at 50 and 60 yards and been dead on, but that's in a field with nothing between me and the target. I have only ever taken 1 deer at just over 30 yards and that was a cut bean field. In the bush it has to be a pretty perfect shot at over 25 yards for me to even think about. Ive lost a deer and hate the feeling...Id rather sit at night and think dam should of taken the shot than to sit and wonder why the heck did I take that shot...that's just me

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The same thing can happen with a bullet, brush cannot be busted by a bullet, you hit a maple sapling with a bullet from a rifle and you are not going to hit where you are aiming.

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Originally Posted by jaycee

also have on their bolts, flat faced nocks, therefore it makes me wonder about the equipment used in this picture ?

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Some of the older x-bows used 'nocks'....

I know of 2 people that have made shots out to 40yds, when the deer knew they were there. In both cases they retrieved the deer, in both cases shot for lungs. Both cases shot in the and got luck to hit artery. Think you can stretch the shot out past 30 if nothing in the way and deer has no idea you are there. but that is a big IF. My boy got a fawn few years ago at 50yd. I told him that it was just pure luck and don't take that shot again. Again nothing in way and deer was feeding with no idea he was there.

Some people just refuse to acknowledge the risk in certain shots.

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Originally Posted by fieldtrip

Some people just refuse to acknowledge the risk in certain shots.

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Some people refuse to acknowledge new technology. New xbows can send a bolt faster to 50yds than older xbows to 30yds. Its fact not fiction.....

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Some of the older x-bows used 'nocks'....

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Not sure if any used traditional nocks but a number of them used half moon nocks, I think Barnett did this.

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Originally Posted by fieldtrip

Some people just refuse to acknowledge the risk in certain shots.

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There is a risk to every shot, a 10 yard shot with a bow has its risks, you tick a tree branch at 10 yards and you can put an arrow or bolt through the back end very easily. Some people refuse to acknowledge that there are different situations with different risks. Would a running deer at 15 yards with a rifle have more or less risks than a standing calm deer not looking at the shooter at 50 yards with a 350fps bow?

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

Some people refuse to acknowledge new technology. New xbows can send a bolt faster to 50yds than older xbows to 30yds. Its fact not fiction.....

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Some people refuse to buy into marketing hype, the smart ones anyway.

Hey, nothing is stopping you from taking long shots, knock yourself out. Just don't come on here afterwards looking for advice on how to recover a deer that was hit in the hind leg at 45 yards, which should have been impossible with your super fast crossbow.

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Originally Posted by GW11

Some people refuse to buy into marketing hype, the smart ones anyway.

Hey, nothing is stopping you from taking long shots, knock yourself out. Just don't come on here afterwards looking for advice on how to recover a deer that was hit in the hind leg at 45 yards, which should have been impossible with your super fast crossbow.

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Can we come on here and ask about recipes after we recover our deer from a 45 yard shot or are we no longer considered hunters at that point?

What if a hunter comes on here and asks about help with the recovery of a deer that they shot with a rifle at dusk and could not see well? What about the guy that gut shoots the deer with a bow at 15 yards because they cannot be bothered to shoot the bow in the off season?

You guys are getting ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Can we come on here and ask about recipes after we recover our deer from a 45 yard shot or are we no longer considered hunters at that point?

What if a hunter comes on here and asks about help with the recovery of a deer that they shot with a rifle at dusk and could not see well? What about the guy that gut shoots the deer with a bow at 15 yards because they cannot be bothered to shoot the bow in the off season?

You guys are getting ridiculous.

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What's ridiculous is how you constantly misinterpret posts and respond to them out of context. You do realize my response was to canadaman specifically and not a general response... right?

Yes, I would absolutely assist someone who ran into problems because they didn't know any better. You guys claim to know better. There's a difference.

I'll leave this to you experts from here on. As they say, it can't be fixed.

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The nock in the OP photo looks like the new Raven crossbow nock. It clips on the string for it's anti dry fire mechanism.

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Originally Posted by GW11

Some people refuse to buy into marketing hype, the smart ones anyway.

Hey, nothing is stopping you from taking long shots, knock yourself out. Just don't come on here afterwards looking for advice on how to recover a deer that was hit in the hind leg at 45 yards, which should have been impossible with your super fast crossbow.

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So are you implying it's all false advertising, companies that sell xbows at 420fps is just marketing? Do you not believe a xbow can shoot that fast nowadays?

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

So are you implying it's all false advertising, companies that sell xbows at 420fps is just marketing? Do you not believe a xbow can shoot that fast nowadays?

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No, I'm saying that 420 fps isn't "fast". Marketing hype just makes you believe that it is.

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I can see this post going south quickly. Before it does I want to say that advertising is the root cause of a lot of things. there was or is a commercial on some show that was showing how accurate a new fast Xbow was. I don't even remember the distance, they were comparing it to a rifle. Both hit the target perfect at this amazing distance. This advertising is great if they are only meant for target shooting and state that up front and all through the commercial. Hitting a target out to 100yds might be easy with the rifle and the xbow. But put a deer out there that can sense and hear. See where that deer is when the bolt gets there. I talk to a local shop that sells bows and guns. We talked about this commercial. He just can't believe it either as he will have people watch this and come in wanting to buy it to shoot deer at this amazing range.

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Originally Posted by GW11

No, I'm saying that 420 fps isn't "fast". Marketing hype just makes you believe that it is.

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Simple math doesn't lie. They can throw a bolt faster to 50 than older models can to 30yds. Is it just hype, or is it simple math, that you couldn't figure out when you attempted earlier in this thread?...lol

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

Simple math doesn't lie. They can throw a bolt faster to 50 than older models can to 30yds. Is it just hype, or is it simple math, that you couldn't figure out when you attempted earlier in this thread?...lol

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I've worked it out many different ways, the error earlier in the thread was a hasty attempt attempt to dumb it down a bit. You know, so you might get it. Unlike some, I don't have any problem admitting when I'm wrong or have made a mistake.

As I told Fox, you guys are the experts, do what you like. On my way out the door to actually hunt with a crossbow now.

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I think the animal deserves our best. Best equipment and a humane shot.
Lots of practice and confirming yardage in the field would go a long way to prevent losses are crippling shots.

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Originally Posted by Horridfiber101

I think the animal deserves our best. Best equipment and a humane shot.
Lots of practice and confirming yardage in the field would go a long way to prevent losses are crippling shots.

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That's the best comment on this thread so far. As long as someone puts in the time to be proficient with whatever tool they want to use to hunt with, how can anyone tell someone else what their maximum range is? You can't set a one size fits all maximum range on archery gear. Some times too close is worse as far as deer reaction to a shot. A nervous deer at 10 yards is more likely to jump the string than a calm deer at 50...

A deer at 10y ain’t jumping no string.

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Originally Posted by thunderbolt

That's the best comment on this thread so far. As long as someone puts in the time to be proficient with whatever tool they want to use to hunt with, how can anyone tell someone else what their maximum range is? You can't set a one size fits all maximum range on archery gear. Some times too close is worse as far as deer reaction to a shot. A nervous deer at 10 yards is more likely to jump the string than a calm deer at 50...

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Well said

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Originally Posted by thunderbolt

That's the best comment on this thread so far. As long as someone puts in the time to be proficient with whatever tool they want to use to hunt with, how can anyone tell someone else what their maximum range is? You can't set a one size fits all maximum range on archery gear. Some times too close is worse as far as deer reaction to a shot. A nervous deer at 10 yards is more likely to jump the string than a calm deer at 50...

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You sort off lost me on that one.

I wonder how many deer are hit and not recovered in Ontario in a year.

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Originally Posted by fieldtrip

Arrow or bolt I think anything over 30yds is talking a chance no matter how good your bow is. Too many variables

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Couldn't agree more with this.

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Originally Posted by skull

If you wanna kill it
You have to shoot at it

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Spray and pray mentality??

Keep flingin arrows till one dies??

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kavanagh

So I came across this on the wonderful world wide net.
The guy said he shot it at 50 yards with a crossbow and the deer turned.

Okay so this is a perfect example of what NOT to do and what boils my blood!Attachment 38864
I don't care how good of a shot someone says they are, or how fast their bow is, whether it be a crossbow or compound, etc., these bows despite what manufacturers say are not for long range shots on live targets. It's irresponsible! For a bow, anything past 30 yards is pushing it for the very reason shown in this photo. You're bow hunting. Learn to get close which is what bow hunting is about. It may shoot like a rifle but it's still a bow and a deer can still jump the string or turn like the one did above. The guy just got lucky is all!
What ticks e off is how many times things like this happen and they never find the animal. It's irresponsible to take long shots like this!!!

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I shot a buck yesterday afternoon 35-40 yards approximately. He had enough time to turn and look at where the sound came from before the bolt landed. It made me think that if he jumped the string I would have completely missed or worse. After that experience I’ve learned my bows limit for an ethical shot.

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Originally Posted by dannyboy

I shot a buck yesterday afternoon 35-40 yards approximately. He had enough time to turn and look at where the sound came from before the bolt landed. It made me think that if he jumped the string I would have completely missed or worse. After that experience I’ve learned my bows limit for an ethical shot.

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Congrats on the buck! What model of crossbow are you shooting?

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Originally Posted by dannyboy

I shot a buck yesterday afternoon 35-40 yards approximately. He had enough time to turn and look at where the sound came from before the bolt landed. It made me think that if he jumped the string I would have completely missed or worse. After that experience I’ve learned my bows limit for an ethical shot.

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Glad to hear that you got a deer, but also that you realized something about the risk of long distance shot. I took a shot about 30 years ago that I had no business taking and got lucky getting the deer.

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Originally Posted by dannyboy

I shot a buck yesterday afternoon 35-40 yards approximately. He had enough time to turn and look at where the sound came from before the bolt landed. It made me think that if he jumped the string I would have completely missed or worse. After that experience I’ve learned my bows limit for an ethical shot.

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What bow were you shooting? What velocity is it running?

When I shoot my bow you cannot see the bolt moving, my old bow I would watch the trajectory of the bolt, a huge difference.

The deer I shot Tuesday I just ranged it from my blind. 42yd thru screen. Thru and thru shot taking heart out. Any one want to guess where my bolt might had ended up can’t find it she was 10yd from thick bush

How far do you think that bolt travelled forward with her movement. She made it maybe 8’ before making hard left then 40’ into bush

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Originally Posted by js4fn

The deer I shot Tuesday I just ranged it from my blind. 42yd thru screen. Thru and thru shot taking heart out. Any one want to guess where my bolt might had ended up can’t find it she was 10yd from thick bush

How far do you think that bolt travelled forward with her movement. She made it maybe 8’ before making hard left then 40’ into bush

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Your bolt rattled off a pile of limbs and probably will never be found, unless you were shooting down from a tree stand and it did not bury into the ground.

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Originally Posted by js4fn

The deer I shot Tuesday I just ranged it from my blind. 42yd thru screen. Thru and thru shot taking heart out. Any one want to guess where my bolt might had ended up can’t find it she was 10yd from thick bush

How far do you think that bolt travelled forward with her movement. She made it maybe 8’ before making hard left then 40’ into bush

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Congrads on the deer. I guess you blew the 30yds or less out of the water...

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Originally Posted by GW11

Congrats on the buck! What model of crossbow are you shooting?

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Thank you. I shot a Excalibur matrix 355le. 150 grain bolt cutters with diablo bolts. The scope is set at just over 330fps

I practice at 30 and 40 yards. I tried 50 but found it too challenging for consistency. I wouldn't dream of taking a deer at that distance. 10 with 20 being max.

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

Congrads on the deer. I guess you blew the 30yds or less out of the water...

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She presented perfect paused shot broadside right front leg ahead at 42yd. Shooting Excalibur assassin 420td 400+FPS

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Originally Posted by Mr.Boiler

I practice at 30 and 40 yards. I tried 50 but found it too challenging for consistency. I wouldn't dream of taking a deer at that distance. 10 with 20 being max.

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So you think that 20 yards is pushing it with a modern crossbow?

Seems to me that a lot of the comments on this thread are more directed at what the poster thinks others want to hear.

There is no cookie cutter, one rule for all situations. Every shot situation is different, angles, distance, wind speed, elevation and to think that one person's max distance is the same as another person's is absurd.

I will make my choices for my shots based on the information I have on hand, in the field when the opportunity at an animal presents itself. There will be times when 30 yards is just too far and others when 45 yards is a shot will take. I have never had a deer jump the string yet.

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Originally Posted by Fox

So you think that 20 yards is pushing it with a modern crossbow?

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Did he say that? he said 20 was his max comfort distance.

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Originally Posted by toddy

Did he say that? he said 20 was his max comfort distance.

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Yes, yes he did.

"I practice at 30 and 40 yards. I tried 50 but found it too challenging for consistency. I wouldn't dream of taking a deer at that distance. 10 with 20 being max. "

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Originally Posted by Fox

Yes, yes he did.

"I practice at 30 and 40 yards. I tried 50 but found it too challenging for consistency. I wouldn't dream of taking a deer at that distance. 10 with 20 being max. "

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I feel like your reading into it a bit just to push your argument a bit more . . . . maybe?

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Originally Posted by toddy

I feel like your reading into it a bit just to push your argument a bit more . . . . maybe?

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Nope, I am actually wondering why he thinks that 20 yards is the absolute max for bow hunting deer with a modern crossbow? Is he actually not using a crossbow but rather a traditional bow? I have a 40lb long bow that I shot every day for a summer before the hunt and would only sit in a stand that limited me to 10 yards with that particular bow. Maybe there is some physical reason why the range of 20 yards is the max limit with 10 yards being average.

I am honestly wondering why? 10 yards is nothing for something with any kind of sight on it, 20 yards is an average range for slow bows.

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Originally Posted by Fox

So you think that 20 yards is pushing it with a modern crossbow?

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LOL! Crossbow is a different story. I’ve been really working on my compound skills as of late so that’s where my heads at. Should have been clearer. I’m comfortable with my crossbow to 30 or 35 yards. More than that is a bit shaky for me.
My compound bow I would use up to 20 yards. Anything more is a no for me. I’m sure others can do better but it’s all about staying within ones limits...

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Originally Posted by Fox

Nope, I am actually wondering why he thinks that 20 yards is the absolute max for bow hunting deer with a modern crossbow? Is he actually not using a crossbow but rather a traditional bow? I have a 40lb long bow that I shot every day for a summer before the hunt and would only sit in a stand that limited me to 10 yards with that particular bow. Maybe there is some physical reason why the range of 20 yards is the max limit with 10 yards being average.

I am honestly wondering why? 10 yards is nothing for something with any kind of sight on it, 20 yards is an average range for slow bows.

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Perhaps these are his own personal set limits. Which more bow hunters should have.



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So you think that 20 yards is pushing it with a modern crossbow?

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I interpreted that it was a max he set for himself.

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Originally Posted by Mr.Boiler

LOL! Crossbow is a different story. I’ve been really working on my compound skills as of late so that’s where my heads at. Should have been clearer. I’m comfortable with my crossbow to 30 or 35 yards. More than that is a bit shaky for me.
My compound bow I would use up to 20 yards. Anything more is a no for me. I’m sure others can do better but it’s all about staying within ones limits...

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See that makes a lot more sense to me :). This is the point of my comments, the bow in use and the comfort and control of the user plays a significant part in the ethical range. I have no problem at 40+ yards on a deer with my exomax with a clean shooting lane but, my long bow and compound bow do not go hunting now as I cannot make the time at the moment to practice, it would not be ethical to sling arrows at any animal if I did not know I was going to land that arrow in the right spot.