Excalibur crossbows - do not buy

DO NOT BUY!!! One of the worst experiences!!! Bought Excalibur Bulldog 440 package a month ago and put 3 bolt to sight it in.... Went hunting and shot a deer from 20 yards.... The left limb split in peaces... injured a deer, hopefully it will survive. Called customer service (and they never pickup the phone, you have to leave a message, they called back after 2 voicemails). Drove to Kitchener to repair. Came back and sighted in again (with 4 arrows). Went hunting... Sitting on tree-stand, crossbow is hanging on the hook beside me... Suddenly, hear cracking... Looked at the limbs.... the right limb STARTS SPLITTING right in front of my eyes!!! OMG!!! Second day of hunt RUINED!!!! THIS IS TERRIBLE PEACE OF EQUIPMENT!!! 2 days of PRIME hunting time is gone/wasted, gas, time from work.Attachment 39040Attachment 39041

UPDATE: Went their shop and they replaced the limbs (also was told that they had a batch of limbs "overcooked" . Went hunting yesterday and was able to stay all day... Limbs did not breake! I am so happy : ). Did not see a deer though : (

Not the same company that we used to trust implicitly...poor service now dragging a good name down.

What do you do when your limb is cracking at full draw? Throw it to the ground before it explodes in your face? Lol

ty luck and this is another reason I'll keep my 15 year old excal

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I think their quest for "unneeded" speed is blowing up-in hunter's faces..........

Awe man that sucks spend good money and have that happen not once but twice plus lost bush time
They should upgrade you to what ever you want

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Originally Posted by js4fn

They should upgrade you to what ever you want

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Maybe 'downgrade' to an old stlye, proven safe model.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Maybe 'downgrade' to an old stlye, proven safe model.

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I’m very happy with my assassin 420TD

But ops bow is wow scary wouldnt want to be walking with it drawn and slung over a shoulder

That sucks, lucky you weren't injured when it failed.

Yes, glad to hear you didn't catch that in the teeth. Sorry to hear about the bad luck.

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I will call them on Monday and recommend to include full head helmet in the kit : (

At this point I think I would be asking for a refund. Maybe look for one of the older models. They come up for sale used all the time and get the job done. I have my Exocet for at least 15 years now and I have only changed the string once.

They used to be top notch, incl the warranty and customer service. Get on their forum and ask others about this model.

That sucks. Hope it turns out good for you. Good luck

I have the bulldog 400, taken 3 deer already, absolutely love it. Quality issues can happen to any company, I wouldn't dismiss Excalibur as a crappy brand from 1 experience.

This is not the first time I have heard this happen... If that thing were to break apart in someones face, lookout... lawsuit waiting to happen....What's the saying.....speed kills......

Just Google Excalibur limb failure and see how many examples of this are out there.

Glad you weren't hurt OP. Take the advice of the poster who suggested a refund and to buy an older used model. Dead is dead, 300 fps crossbows were burying bolts in the ground behind deer long before the speed craze.

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I love my old Excalibur crossbow. I’m yet to have an issue with the products or customer service

In the last 10 years I have never had a problem or concern with the three Excalibur
crossbow I have owned.

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Originally Posted by marky.mark

I love my old Excalibur crossbow. I’m yet to have an issue with the products or customer service

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wow. i would expect them to do you a favour after something like this. ive talked to dudes who had issues and they went above and beyond to remedy it. i agree with others-- look into an older model if you can. i was gifted an excalibur through family and it's a solid piece of machinery. i wouldn't give up on all excals if you've not used the older ones.

Glad to hear your ok. That sucks about the deer. Get a refund

Kind of makes me worry a bit. Bowtech and Excalibur are owned by the same company from what Ive heard. I love both my Micro 335 and my Carbon Icon. Flawless and no issues...yet. My Micro was bought when they first came out. Same with the Carbon Icon. Hmmm...

Do you know if it is new production or one of the first runs of that model? I work for a store that sells Excal's and so far none of our customers have had an issue. Having said that I have heard of first run issues with a couple of their higher powered models including the Bulldog and one of the Micro's. We have called the company on behalf of customers a few times and have had no issues with service at all. I still recommend Excalibur and wouldn't hesitate to buy another one myself. I have an old Exocet 200 that I bought new and I had to take it back right away to have the trigger lightened as it was way heavier than it was supposed to be. I have since killed quite a few deer with it. That's why I can't convince myself to get a new one. TC

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Originally Posted by fratri

This is not the first time I have heard this happen... If that thing were to break apart in someones face, lookout... lawsuit waiting to happen....What's the saying.....speed kills......

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I feel like the important question here is - could he jump the string at 40 yards if that thing let go . . . ?

From what I hear about Excal is the max speed without limb issues is 355 FPS. That seems to be the max draw weight the recurve limbs can handle

2008 Exomax, never had a problem, I doubt I will buy a new one, probably will never have to.

I blew the end of the limbs off my grizzly last fall while target shooting. Got hit in the face with some splinters. They had new limbs to me within 2 days. Also had the scope screw up on me. Reticle would spin inside the housing. Replaced it within a couple days as well.

Zero issues with my Micro 335!

https://images2.imgbox.com/83/05/4JxpGzjE_o.jpg

One of the issue could be-just saying-if people are using to light bolts for whatever reason.
The stronger the bow-the finickier it gets with to light bolts.Eventually shooting to light bolts could lead to this very same problem over time.

Not working for Excal-but this is the very same principle as on compound bows-DO NOT dry fire them EVER.

There is an old saying-You dry fire a compound bow( which is not yours)-You just bought Yourself one.

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Originally Posted by gbk

One of the issue could be-just saying-if people are using to light bolts for whatever reason.
The stronger the bow-the finickier it gets with to light bolts.Eventually shooting to light bolts could lead to this very same problem over time.

Not working for Excal-but this is the very same principle as on compound bows-DO NOT dry fire them EVER.

There is an old saying-You dry fire a compound bow( which is not yours)-You just bought Yourself one.

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Actually that makes some sense. That energy has to go somewhere. If the bolt is too light or not there at all that stored energy could be dangerous.
Sheldon Cooper would know for sure...

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Originally Posted by redd foxx

I blew the end of the limbs off my grizzly last fall while target shooting. Got hit in the face with some splinters. They had new limbs to me within 2 days. Also had the scope screw up on me. Reticle would spin inside the housing. Replaced it within a couple days as well.

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How can you trust that bow now not to blow up and seriously hurt you?

Had a excalibur 380, limbs cracked within a year had to replace the string twice in a year and scope would rattle loose even after lock tighten the screws,
bought a 10 point crossbow, would never go back, would quit bow hunting if my only choice was to use a excalibur,

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Originally Posted by Matt86

Had a excalibur 380, limbs cracked within a year had to replace the string twice in a year and scope would rattle loose even after lock tighten the screws,
bought a 10 point crossbow, would never go back, would quit bow hunting if my only choice was to use a excalibur,

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That is so sad, went from being Canadian owned and operated to something sold to a huge American company that is now a POS. :(

I think the older original Excalibur crossbows are the best kept secret in the used market. With the bargain prices you can find them for. Exocet, Exomag etc. Everyone wants the latest greatest.

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Originally Posted by fishhawk

I think the older original Excalibur crossbows are the best kept secret in the used market. With the bargain prices you can find them for. Exocet, Exomag etc. Everyone wants the latest greatest.

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I wish I could find a paradox, remember that one? Compound bow with no let off.

I have an Exomax that is about 14 or 15 years old. I had to replace the limbs several years ago when I noticed some cracking and light splintering. Excalibur sent me a replacement set of limbs for free, but the first set was defective (splinters). The second set were fine, although not a perfect match in terms of colour. The crossbow has not shot as well since the limbs were replaced, but it is still o.k. I've been contemplating replacing the bow with a newer Excal. I'm particularly interested in the Micro 335 because I find the Exomax to be pretty big.
Maybe I'm better off with what I have though?

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Originally Posted by rf2

I have an Exomax that is about 14 or 15 years old. I had to replace the limbs several years ago when I noticed some cracking and light splintering. Excalibur sent me a replacement set of limbs for free, but the first set was defective (splinters). The second set were fine, although not a perfect match in terms of colour. The crossbow has not shot as well since the limbs were replaced, but it is still o.k. I've been contemplating replacing the bow with a newer Excal. I'm particularly interested in the Micro 335 because I find the Exomax to be pretty big.
Maybe I'm better off with what I have though?

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I have micro 335. I am Happy with it


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Rf2 I have the micro 335 for about 1 year new. It hasn’t let me down but the camo finish is starting to chip off the limbs a bit. They are small, accurate and powerful. I would buy again but my older Exocet looks like it’s new with only one string replacement.

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Originally Posted by Fox

That is so sad, went from being Canadian owned and operated to something sold to a huge American company that is now a POS. :(

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Thats just your opinion, and everyones got one just like an ahole...this guy below would agree they work just fine. Everyones entitled to an opinion but some opinions are based on facts and others are just made up off the top of someone's head or from generalized observations which is far removed from fact.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7e8dbd63f0.jpg

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Originally Posted by Deer Wrastler

Thats just your opinion, and everyones got one just like an ahole...this guy below would agree they work just fine. Everyones entitled to an opinion but some opinions are based on facts and others are just made up off the top of someone's head or from generalized observations which is far removed from fact.

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You cannot claim "far removed from fact' with so many instances of failures with the new products.

I have witnessed many older excaliburs not breaking with dry fires for a few different reasons but the new limbs do not have the same reviews as the older ones.

excalibur exocet was a awesome bow thought I would up grade, was a disaster. outta 3 matrix 380's me, my girlfriend and her brother bought 2 had cracked limbs with in a year, those are the facts.
There trying to keep up to compound crossbows and they cant, their slower bows im sure are fine but why would I risk it when there are far better options on the market that all there bows are good just not certain ones in there lines?
my matrix worked fine to till the limbs broke.

Sorry to see that happen. I just purchased the Micro 335 crossbow this season (Cabela had a deal) and took it out a few times without issue. Goes to show that all manufacturers have their goods and bads.

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Originally Posted by RoyMarra

Sorry to see that happen. I just purchased the Micro 335 crossbow this season (Cabela had a deal) and took it out a few times without issue. Goes to show that all manufacturers have their goods and bads.

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You can also line things up with the sale of the company.

So-here is my 5 cents in this debate:
I have no experience whit the newer models-can not comment on Excalibur Quality going south on new products/new owner etc!!!!

However i own an Excalibur Exocet 200 crossbow ,for many years now.
I bought it new.
Never let me down!


HERE COMES the story:

Saturday around 4:45pm i dropped the cocked crossbow from about 13 feet height,misplacing it while trying to hang it on the hook.
MY BAD.Shuld have looked instead of "feeling"the hook.

The loaded crossbow landed flat on its belly,in some leaves.

Did not discharge-did not fall apart-the Lumizone scope was there as before -the arrow was still nocked-and the whole crossbow looked intact .

I was pissed......

Today after much visual inspection i took it shooting ,expecting min the Scope is busted,up to anything else bad coming my way.

The Exocet was shooting JUST as BEFORE!!!!No adjustment,no tweaking,same points of impact too.


Now dropping it 13 feet is not recommended-but please let me know if this is not sign of a quality!!!!!A high quality.

I am not affiliated with Excalibur,and have no Excalibur fetish......BUT guys,lets see the next crossbow repeat this feat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps i should name my Exocet 200- the AK - 47 of the crossbows..............;);););););)

Dan Wallace beat this thing up with a bunch of challenges on Huntin the Backwoods TV and it never needed to repaired or re-sighted. If my mind serves me his Xbow was a 355

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnAkwUpDo-g

The problem has never been the quality of up to 355 FPS from what I understand, thus why the older bows had no failures, trying to keep with the compound Xbows speed is where they are failing. Anything around 300 FPS is lots IMO.

I have been shooting and excalibur since they were first built in a pig barn by the original owner and so has my bro. These bows had the Scorpion one piece limbs with wood stocks, if l recall l think we bought his 1st 2 xbows when Bill started the company. We still shoot the Exomag and have never had a problem with the older bows. Sorry to hear some of the newer bows are breaking down. I only hope company can continue building the product it once was.

I never had any problems with my Exocet or my Equinox. Having said that, I would never buy something named “Assasin”?????

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Originally Posted by GW11

Just Google Excalibur limb failure and see how many examples of this are out there.

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That's like telling someone to Google Ford accidents to see how many accidents they've been involved in.

When's the last time you've seen someone post, "I was out hunting today. Bow was cocked and ready to rock. Didn't see a thing. Limbs didn't split. Decocked and went home. Man, I can't believe how good this bow is. The limbs didn't split."

Bad experiences are complaints always get more traction.

FWIW, I have a Bulldog 380. Haven't shot a deer yet, but I've practiced plenty. The limbs are intact. No complaints.

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Originally Posted by awndray

That's like telling someone to Google Ford accidents to see how many accidents they've been involved in.

When's the last time you've seen someone post, "I was out hunting today. Bow was cocked and ready to rock. Didn't see a thing. Limbs didn't split. Decocked and went home. Man, I can't believe how good this bow is. The limbs didn't split."

Bad experiences are complaints always get more traction.

FWIW, I have a Bulldog 380. Haven't shot a deer yet, but I've practiced plenty. The limbs are intact. No complaints.

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Not really. Stories of limb failures in Excalibur crossbows were virtually nonexistent (short of dry firing) in the older generations until they became more compact and powerful.

I agree, bad news gets more traction, but there wasn't much bad news about Excalibur until recently.

It's like Googling Ford accidents and noticing that there weren't many to speak of until after a certain production year.

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Agree with ya GW11.
Excalibur built is reputation on simplicity, reliability and service.
Limb failures were very rare before the new generation of Excals arrived - starting with the matrix.

I'm using a phoenix I bought new in 2009 or so.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Agree with ya GW11.
Excalibur built is reputation on simplicity, reliability and service.
Limb failures were very rare before the new generation of Excals arrived - starting with the matrix.

I'm using a phoenix I bought new in 2009 or so.

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I’m a bit caution where speeds of over 330 are concerned. I MHO, that’s a lot of energy bottled up in short pieces of fibreglass..
Im leaning towards the new Axe.....

I bought the Excalibur bulldog 400 last year and I have lots of time to hunt in the fall/winter, so it sits cocked for usually 7 hours ish a day around for a good chunk of a month. Never had any issues, in fact nothing but praise. This thing is insanely powerful, buck two days ago was a double lung, and it broke a rib on each side and buried so deep in the ground i never found it again despite bringing a heavy rake the next day.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

I’m a bit caution where speeds of over 330 are concerned. I MHO, that’s a lot of energy bottled up in short pieces of fibreglass..
Im leaning towards the new Axe.....

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Agree,
I am looking at the GRZ2 305FPS to replace my old Horton 260FPS, going in tomorrow to check the GRZ out. I don't bow hunt enough to justify spending 1K for a bow but it is time to upgrade a bit.

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Originally Posted by huntnmachine

Agree,
I am looking at the GRZ2 305FPS to replace my old Horton 260FPS, going in tomorrow to check the GRZ out. I don't bow hunt enough to justify spending 1K for a bow but it is time to upgrade a bit.

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Have you looked at the new Axe ??? That’s the one I’m kinda leaning towards....

I have the 308short. Nice little bow. Shoots the same as my old phoenix but the short limbs and thumbhole stock are really nice

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Have you looked at the new Axe ??? That’s the one I’m kinda leaning towards....

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Yes the Axe did catch my eye. I shouldered the 308 Short but it was just that.....short. Would be great for youngsters or women

Rick,
Right after posting this I went on Cabela's website and they have a sale on the Excalibur G340 so I ordered one. They are much like the Axe you mentioned. I like the longer limbs to absorb the stress of the 230 lb draw weight.
It will arrive while I am north next week hunting whitetail but look forward to hunting with it after the shotgun hunt in Dec.

I'm still using my original Wolverine, and my wife has a Phoenix. Don't know why you need anything more. 25 to 28yds max. range and the deer is dead every time. I'm not even sure if the wolverine even does 280ft/sec. Maybe the biggest problem is that a lot of hunters aren't picking their shooting locations well, or they don't know how to sit still! Most of the deer we've taken with a crossbow were 8-15yds, and all have been shot from the ground.

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

I'm still using my original Wolverine, and my wife has a Phoenix. Don't know why you need anything more. 25 to 28yds max. range and the deer is dead every time. I'm not even sure if the wolverine even does 280ft/sec. Maybe the biggest problem is that a lot of hunters aren't picking their shooting locations well, or they don't know how to sit still! Most of the deer we've taken with a crossbow were 8-15yds, and all have been shot from the ground.

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Just curious, from a ground blind??

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Originally Posted by huntnmachine

Rick,
Right after posting this I went on Cabela's website and they have a sale on the Excalibur G340 so I ordered one. They are much like the Axe you mentioned. I like the longer limbs to absorb the stress of the 230 lb draw weight.
It will arrive while I am north next week hunting whitetail but look forward to hunting with it after the shotgun hunt in Dec.

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Nice....good luck on the hunt... let me know what you think of that bow when you get a chance to shoot it..

Tents for about the past 12 years. Fantastic comfort, warm,dry, and the biggest thing, they hide any movement by you. They give you the luxury of being able to move your head, blow your nose, use binocs, etc. Without being seen. Have also shot out of small ground blinds. Usually sit in a nice comfy backed chair with body wrapped in a heavy sleeping bag up to armpit height. Use cut conifer branches shoved into the ground with top of branches sitting at mid chest height when you're in sitting position.

I have a 380 since they came out, have never had an issue. I have taken 5 deer with it. My son has a micro 355 and has had no issues with it either. I have had to call the company once and that was for a string for the crank a roo. they had it to me within 2 days. Would I go bigger no as I don't think is necessary . If I had to do it again, would probably go with the micro 335.

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

I'm still using my original Wolverine, and my wife has a Phoenix. Don't know why you need anything more. 25 to 28yds max. range and the deer is dead every time. I'm not even sure if the wolverine even does 280ft/sec. Maybe the biggest problem is that a lot of hunters aren't picking their shooting locations well, or they don't know how to sit still! Most of the deer we've taken with a crossbow were 8-15yds, and all have been shot from the ground.

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I had one back in 1989. Great bow, shot a few deer with it. The speed of that bow is 250 feet per second with a draw weight of 150 pounds. Your still digging the bolt out of the ground at that speed. Should have kept that bow. Now I have a Exocet 175 mag tip limbs and a micro 335. Both are very accurate and problem free.

Rick,
My G340 arrived yesterday while I was up at Burks Falls for the rifle hunt. Got home today and assembled it, nice XBow.
Heading to my cousins farm tomorrow to process the two does and one fawn we harvested at Burks Falls this week, will test it out then.....stay tuned

The bow shot great, only two bolts and it was in the bullseye. The only problem I have with it is the bolts are hard to get out of my target block, tons of penetration but I will take that problem....

Ive had nothing but good experiences with Excals over the years. Sorry to hear about your luck, I'm sure if you contact their warranty dept they will not leave you hanging. Worst case, find a used Vortex or Equinox and you will have a quality bow for decades...

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Originally Posted by huntnmachine

The bow shot great, only two bolts and it was in the bullseye. The only problem I have with it is the bolts are hard to get out of my target block, tons of penetration but I will take that problem....

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Get yourself a can of silicone spray and wipe a little on to the front of the arrow before shooting at targets, cuts down on the force required to remove an arrow by a fair margin.

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Originally Posted by huntnmachine

The bow shot great, only two bolts and it was in the bullseye. The only problem I have with it is the bolts are hard to get out of my target block, tons of penetration but I will take that problem....

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Thanks for the info....now the sweet talking begins !!!

Thanks for the silicone tip

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Originally Posted by huntnmachine

Thanks for the silicone tip

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If your arrows have labels on them, use some acetone and take them off, they kind of melt going into the target and gets them stuck

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Originally Posted by oaknut

Get yourself a can of silicone spray and wipe a little on to the front of the arrow before shooting at targets, cuts down on the force required to remove an arrow by a fair margin.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

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Good idea. After buying my Exocet package after using compounds I had that problem at times in my styro cube as the bolt was almost buried. Probably would have bent aluminum ones. I check online and Excalibur sells pullers, so does tenpoint. Not cheap. So I checked out the threaded insert at the rear of the bolt and it was 8-32 thread. Well I'd rather make my own anytime for free, and having access to a full service airline with all the shops made it easy. I went down to ground vehicle maintenance and found a strip of 1/4"x 1" steel. Cut a 4" length off it, then dressed it up on the grinder and wire wheel. Drilled and tapped a hole in the middle and after priming and baking and painting and baking I found a hex SS screw the right length so just enough stuck out and even then fouled the top threads and epoxied it in lol. Any ways it works great, lots of weight so once you get the threads in a quick spin is all it takes to seat all the way in or out.
Of course all this was done on my own time. :) Oh, except for the shop oven time which I used plenty during some workdays anyway. Just sayin...

Yup get rid of the decals!

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Originally Posted by gbk

The Exocet was shooting JUST as BEFORE!!!!No adjustment,no tweaking,same points of impact too.

Now dropping it 13 feet is not recommended-but please let me know if this is not sign of a quality!!!!!A high quality.

I am not affiliated with Excalibur,and have no Excalibur fetish......BUT guys,lets see the next crossbow repeat this feat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Remember the old Excaliber ads with a pickup truck driving over the limbs? Seems they don't advertise that anymore.
I've always wanted an Exocet 200, but my Vixen II that I bought, used, for $300, 10 years ago keeps shooting like the day I got it, so I have no plans to buy a new bow.
I built up a dozen custom arrows with Gold Tip carbon shafts, blazer vanes, heavy brass point inserts and 125gr 1" Slick Tricks fixed broadheads. I target shoot with matching 125gr field points, then fire a broadhead or two to confirm POI, and I haven't had to touch my scope adjustment since I installed I installed a custom string (Flemish XCel "Boo String" from Don Katsumi) in 2013.
Absolutely love this bow. I keep my eyes open for a "trashed" Exocet 200 (or something between an exocet 200 and an exomag) to snag the (straight) beam and/or riser to upgrade mine, though I expect anyone with issues would have homefully gone through warranty repair before Bowtech bought them. There were rumours years ago of being able to buy "parts" through their warranty/repair center, but I'm sure that's long over with.
The xbows in that generation really only differed in graphics and length of beam, though at one point post 2003, the riser changed slightly, with the limbs being angled slightly forward (at rest), resulting in slightly more flex in the limbs when strung (and cocked) giving an incremental increase in speed.

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Originally Posted by bdog

If your arrows have labels on them, use some acetone and take them off, they kind of melt going into the target and gets them stuck

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also an issue with the type of plastic used in some targets like the "Block" brand ones. The plastic melts to the shaft when they penetrate, from the high friction. I have a cheapo walmart target made or plastic canvas, coroplast (like election signs) and cardboard.
It won't last through as much shooting as a "Block" type, or a 3D range (foam/plastic animal shapes) but arrows slide out fairly easily with a thread in T-handle puller.

Rick,
Do you have permission from the boss yet....
Check Cabelas on black Friday could be a steal
https://www.cabelas.ca/product/13282...ur-micro-axe-3 from 40-crossbow-package

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Originally Posted by huntnmachine

Rick,
Do you have permission from the boss yet....
Check Cabelas on black Friday could be a steal
https://www.cabelas.ca/product/13282...ur-micro-axe-3 from 40-crossbow-package

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Haha.. yea thanks! It on my “list”..... lol

Some deals here to
https://easthilloutdoors.com/2019-black-friday-blowout/

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Originally Posted by Keating

Remember the old Excaliber ads with a pickup truck driving over the limbs? Seems they don't advertise that anymore.
I've always wanted an Exocet 200, but my Vixen II that I bought, used, for $300, 10 years ago keeps shooting like the day I got it, so I have no plans to buy a new bow.
I built up a dozen custom arrows with Gold Tip carbon shafts, blazer vanes, heavy brass point inserts and 125gr 1" Slick Tricks fixed broadheads. I target shoot with matching 125gr field points, then fire a broadhead or two to confirm POI, and I haven't had to touch my scope adjustment since I installed I installed a custom string (Flemish XCel "Boo String" from Don Katsumi) in 2013.
Absolutely love this bow. I keep my eyes open for a "trashed" Exocet 200 (or something between an exocet 200 and an exomag) to snag the (straight) beam and/or riser to upgrade mine, though I expect anyone with issues would have homefully gone through warranty repair before Bowtech bought them. There were rumours years ago of being able to buy "parts" through their warranty/repair center, but I'm sure that's long over with.
The xbows in that generation really only differed in graphics and length of beam, though at one point post 2003, the riser changed slightly, with the limbs being angled slightly forward (at rest), resulting in slightly more flex in the limbs when strung (and cocked) giving an incremental increase in speed.

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im a big fan of the vintage stuff... motorcycles, etc.
seems that the older style of excals are now falling into that category?
the old saying "if it aint broke dont fix it". love my excalibur!

Excalibur micro is the best crossbow on the market, spend the extra money and throw that airplane in the garbage.

Have to agree with u after a bad fall 3 year ago , I ended up with a 8 “ metal road for collar bone with 8 screw than make late season bow hunting with my Monster Chill at 70 lb to hard in cold weather after a miss opportunity last Saturday I went to Trombly for they Black Friday sale and pick a late season crossbow Excalibur Micro Krytek Raid 335 fully loaded after taking 10 arrow for dead center grouping at 20and 30 yard when out last night took that six pointer with a pass true shoot at 30 yard having done my research and having friends using they old Excalibur for 30 year , they have a great product, my take is stay away from the supper fast good bow hunter take all they game within 30 yard

I'm still hunting with my 25 year old Exocet. Somewhere along the way I installed mag-tip limbs so I could use fast-flight strings. Its bullet-proof.

I've seen and heard all the hype with the newer models over the years (both pre and post Bowtech), and I've even shot a few of them. Yet nothing has persuaded me to "upgrade" my bow.

I set up my hunting spots for 20 yard shots and will take shots out to 30 yards in the bush. I hunt deer mostly from the ground with a tree at my back (turkey hunting style) with some brush strategically piled in front of me. My arrows go through both sides of the deer; how much farther do I need them to fly after that?

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My arrows go through both sides of the deer; how much farther do I need them to fly after that?

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Best line ever.....

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Originally Posted by ninepointer

I'm still hunting with my 25 year old Exocet. Somewhere along the way I installed mag-tip limbs so I could use fast-flight strings. Its bullet-proof.

I've seen and heard all the hype with the newer models over the years (both pre and post Bowtech), and I've even shot a few of them. Yet nothing has persuaded me to "upgrade" my bow.

I set up my hunting spots for 20 yard shots and will take shots out to 30 yards in the bush. I hunt deer mostly from the ground with a tree at my back (turkey hunting style) with some brush strategically piled in front of me. My arrows go through both sides of the deer; how much farther do I need them to fly after that?

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NP - the "need for speed" in archery isn't about penetration - it's about flatter trajectories and less reaction time on the deer's part.
...which raises another question - why the move in the industry to 150gr heads - which would go counter to all this?

I use a 2009 phoenix with no aftermarkets. No plans to upgrade. When I bought it, it was because of simplicity and reliability.
All I see in the new models is these high value design attributes being abandoned.
I set up for 25 yards, but would add another 10 if an extreme case presented itself - you know - monster buck, running out of daylight, and not expecting him to come in closer - that sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

...which raises another question - why the move in the industry to 150gr heads - which would go counter to all this?

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The move to heavier heads and/or heavier bolts/arrows is likely to stabilize bolt/arrow at higher speeds. Faster speeds equals less accuracy where bolts/arrows are concerned especially when tipped with fixed blade models that have large surface areas as compared to mechanicals/field points. Air resistance and the associated forces that can cause an arrow/bolt to plane is a function of the velocity squared. Due to the squaring effect the affect is magnified even with modest speed increases. The easiest way to counter this is to increase weight to combat the forces at play and reduce the speed marginally to lessen the forces. Putting more weight up front also increases the FOC of the bolt/arrow which as long as not excessive usually improves accuracy as well. So it is a trade off - you get extra speed but have to sacrifice a modest amount of the potential by using a heavier combination in order to maintain your accuracy.

You are spot on species. It was explained to me by my local dealer that with the faster Xbows light tips are not as accurate so he guided me to the 150 grain bolt cutter fixed blade for my G340. A heavier front of centre helps stabilize the fasters bolt speeds and he was right. My Xbow shoots the 150 grain bolt cutters like a field point

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Originally Posted by Species8472

The move to heavier heads and/or heavier bolts/arrows is likely to stabilize bolt/arrow at higher speeds. Faster speeds equals less accuracy where bolts/arrows are concerned especially when tipped with fixed blade models that have large surface areas as compared to mechanicals/field points. Air resistance and the associated forces that can cause an arrow/bolt to plane is a function of the velocity squared. Due to the squaring effect the affect is magnified even with modest speed increases. The easiest way to counter this is to increase weight to combat the forces at play and reduce the speed marginally to lessen the forces. Putting more weight up front also increases the FOC of the bolt/arrow which as long as not excessive usually improves accuracy as well. So it is a trade off - you get extra speed but have to sacrifice a modest amount of the potential by using a heavier combination in order to maintain your accuracy.

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What he said:D. I assemble my own bolts and before the 150gr heads came out i installed brass inserts to have a correct balance point with 100gr heads. TC

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Originally Posted by huntnmachine

You are spot on species. It was explained to me by my local dealer that with the faster Xbows light tips are not as accurate so he guided me to the 150 grain bolt cutter fixed blade for my G340. A heavier front of centre helps stabilize the fasters bolt speeds and he was right. My Xbow shoots the 150 grain bolt cutters like a field point

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Have you ever run your 150’s through a chrono.....it would be interesting to see the impact they have on speed...

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Have you ever run your 150’s through a chrono.....it would be interesting to see the impact they have on speed...

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I have a Matrix 380 and have tested it with both 100 grain Solid fixed blade and 150 grain boltcutters through a chrony set about 6 feet in front of the crossbow. With the 100 grain heads i was getting an average 382 fps and with the 150 grain heads i was averaging 361 fps.

Also did the similar testing with a buddy's Mega 405. With 100 grain Solid fixed we averaged 409 fps and than switching to 170 grain FOC mechanical heads we averaged 376 fps.

Honestly excal took a dive off a cliff when they started trying to compete for speed with a recurve design. In my humble opinion, a crossbow should never have a draw weight higher than 200lbs out of convenience and safety. Power stroke is what gives velocity, not draw weight (still does but much less than PS). Just look at medevial crossbows, 400lbs+ draw weight and none of them go near the slowest of todays crossbows. The only way to achieve draw length with a recurve is to make the limbs cartoonishly wide like the Excal assassin that's 30" wide uncocked!!! Sorry but the compound design is simply superior, all you hear about recurves is "you can change the limbs and string easily!" or "You can break it and hunt in the same day!", which is ironic because you only ever hear of recurves snapping or breaking because of the obscene draw weight. Regardless, who throws their bow off a truck? Even if the bow survives your scope sure as heck wont.

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Originally Posted by Species8472

I have a Matrix 380 and have tested it with both 100 grain Solid fixed blade and 150 grain boltcutters through a chrony set about 6 feet in front of the crossbow. With the 100 grain heads i was getting an average 382 fps and with the 150 grain heads i was averaging 361 fps.

Also did the similar testing with a buddy's Mega 405. With 100 grain Solid fixed we averaged 409 fps and than switching to 170 grain FOC mechanical heads we averaged 376 fps.

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Sounds like you sacrifice a bit of speed for better accuracy.
Thanks for the info....

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

NP - the "need for speed" in archery isn't about penetration - it's about flatter trajectories and less reaction time on the deer's part.
...which raises another question - why the move in the industry to 150gr heads - which would go counter to all this?

I use a 2009 phoenix with no aftermarkets. No plans to upgrade. When I bought it, it was because of simplicity and reliability.
All I see in the new models is these high value design attributes being abandoned.
I set up for 25 yards, but would add another 10 if an extreme case presented itself - you know - monster buck, running out of daylight, and not expecting him to come in closer - that sort of thing.

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My post from Saturday was lost in the forum glitch.

I also believe that Excaliber has stressed out the limbs on their newer models.

My 2008 Phoenix is very accurate and bullet proof… Yes it is wide and cumbersome.

The low draw weight is very easy on my limbs and serving. I am on my third string (Flemish Fast Flight) after 11 years of use.

I plan to use this bow for the rest of my hunting days.

I killed my 30th deer with the Phoenix on December 10 and my 31st deer two days ago.

I strive for a 20 yard or less shot and will never shoot at a deer over 30 yards as I enjoy bow hunting and the challenge of getting a deer very close to me. There is less room for error at these ranges and a better chance for a humane and ethical shot.

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Originally Posted by MihajloSimsic

Honestly excal took a dive off a cliff when they started trying to compete for speed with a recurve design. In my humble opinion, a crossbow should never have a draw weight higher than 200lbs out of convenience and safety. Power stroke is what gives velocity, not draw weight (still does but much less than PS). Just look at medevial crossbows, 400lbs+ draw weight and none of them go near the slowest of todays crossbows. The only way to achieve draw length with a recurve is to make the limbs cartoonishly wide like the Excal assassin that's 30" wide uncocked!!! Sorry but the compound design is simply superior, all you hear about recurves is "you can change the limbs and string easily!" or "You can break it and hunt in the same day!", which is ironic because you only ever hear of recurves snapping or breaking because of the obscene draw weight. Regardless, who throws their bow off a truck? Even if the bow survives your scope sure as heck wont.

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The compound crossbows are not necessarily superior. You're comparing apples to oranges. They each have their advantages and disadvantages just like any 2 different products. Personally I like that I can change my bowstring with some paracord and a recurve will never have the accuracy issues a compound can have. Compounds are lighter and faster, 2 qualities that dont make it or break it for me when shooting a deer at 30 yards.

I believe a simpler design is superior based on my needs from a crossbow. Same with guns I like simple hard to break designs (im clumsy). Compounds are awesome too, I own both but my excal comes hunting everytime.

The constant need for speed will eventually be the demise of the recurve crossbow, and that will be a sad day. I can see ,in the near future, compound crossbows reaching 500 fps and most will want one......sadly

I had a limb crack this year on my excalibur micro. Excalibur was excellent to deal with. Sent me limbs in the mail, no questions asked.

I love my Micro 335 and Excalibur has stood behind both bows that I have owned without fail. Great product and I have has nothing but top shelf customer service!

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Originally Posted by huntnmachine

The constant need for speed will eventually be the demise of the recurve crossbow, and that will be a sad day. I can see ,in the near future, compound crossbows reaching 500 fps and most will want one......sadly

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Anything 500fps or faster needs a PAL,you know,courses,investigations,daily CPIC checks............. That's the #1 reason people gravitate to archery. They don't want the hassle,besides,the seasons are longer.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Anything 500fps or faster needs a PAL,you know,courses,investigations,daily CPIC checks............. That's the #1 reason people gravitate to archery. They don't want the hassle,besides,the seasons are longer.

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You are kidding ...right !!

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

You are kidding ...right !!

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Busted!! Damn,you're quick.:moose::moose: Only barreled firearms fall under the 500 fps rule in the Firearms Act. This was a real bad attempt at sarcasm.Sorry.

Recurve crossbows are not made for speed. That's just a simple fact of archery physics. Every single time Excal has attempted a crossbow above 400fps it's always trigger failures and limbs cracking. Doesn't exactly fit their "our crossbows are more reliable than anyone else's" model huh? They make great recurve crossbows, when they do it right you get a simple, compact, lightweight, and reliable piece of equipment.
You just have to accept the fact it will be 380fps or lower, which is perfectly acceptable. To increase speed on a crossbow you need a longer power stroke, simple as that. What excal often ends up doing is trying to compensate for that short power stroke by adding obscene amounts of draw weight. Because to get a good power stroke with a recurve xbow you need to make the limbs as wide as an umbrella. They also try to sell their xbows off in an odd way, like "you can unstring your xbow with ease", which is odd because I never found most compound xbows to be difficult to unstring, plus you wouldn't need to unless changing the string. When your string has as much tension as a bridge cable uncocked then definitely you'd need to unstring it during off season.

You make a good point.
I have always said that Excalibur should not get caught up in the speed game and stay with a mid range 300 to 350 ft/sec bow and market the accuracy, reliability and "in the field string changeability". I bought the Matrix G340 for the wider limbs and I am guessing 320 ft/sec speed (using the 150 grain bolt cutters).
The last thing I want to hear when cocking my Xbow is the sound of fibreglass cracking. I understand they have the best customer service but it doesn't do you much good if you split limbs in a hunting situation.
The older wide limb bows are still killing game today.....just sayin

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Originally Posted by huntnmachine

You make a good point.
I have always said that Excalibur should not get caught up in the speed game and stay with a mid range 300 to 350 ft/sec bow and market the accuracy, reliability and "in the field string changeability". I bought the Matrix G340 for the wider limbs and I am guessing 320 ft/sec speed (using the 150 grain bolt cutters).
The last thing I want to hear when cocking my Xbow is the sound of fibreglass cracking. I understand they have the best customer service but it doesn't do you much good if you split limbs in a hunting situation.
The older wide limb bows are still killing game today.....just sayin

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I agree with huntmachine and MSimsic, Excalibur should just stick with what its been good at for so long, easy to operate and maintain and long lasting crossbows and not get into the speed game.

To tell you the truth we have to be careful what we wish for, these crossbows start getting 500 FPS or more and were going to get seperate seasons like a "controlled week" and will be excluded from bows only seasons..thats my fear and maybe I am wrong...besides many deer have fallen from 300 FPS crossbows like a Phoenix or Vortex, etc...

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Originally Posted by kokes

I agree with huntmachine and MSimsic, Excalibur should just stick with what its been good at for so long, easy to operate and maintain and long lasting crossbows and not get into the speed game.

To tell you the truth we have to be careful what we wish for, these crossbows start getting 500 FPS or more and were going to get seperate seasons like a "controlled week" and will be excluded from bows only seasons..thats my fear and maybe I am wrong...besides many deer have fallen from 300 FPS crossbows like a Phoenix or Vortex, etc...

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Yeah I get what you mean. It used to be: you want the fastest xbow? Go to scorpyd, you want ruggedness and lightweight? go to excal. You want affordability but still a fast reliable bow? Go to tenpoint. I hunt with the Scorpyd aculeus 460 but I even I think 500 and above is a bit much. Not to say fast crossbows haven't been lifesavers for people that live in areas where gun hunting just isn't an option, but crossbows should stay below 500fps. I'd rather not crossbow hunters get lumped in with firearms on legality issues. An xbow 300fps is more than enough to get you in the game, a faster xbow is preferable but my dad has taken well over 60 big game animals (and some coyotes) with his 320fps excal paradox in the last 20 years with zero issue.

The new Excal models certainly are a joy to carry (so narrow and compact!) and a joy to shoot (so fast and flat!), but when it came right down to it, I bought my son a used Phoenix. I just could not justify the new bow price tag or the potential limb issues.

This is of course coming from a guy who still puts arrows through both sides of a deer and sticks them into the ground with his 1994 Exocet ;)

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Originally Posted by ninepointer

This is of course coming from a guy who still puts arrows through both sides of a deer and sticks them into the ground with his 1994 Exocet ;)

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Exactly....Just how far do you need the arrow to go into the ground on the other side and how much are you willing to spend to accomplish that goal..HaHa..

This is of course coming from a guy who still puts arrows through both sides of a deer and sticks them into the ground with his 1994 Exocet
Yes sir...wish I didn't sell mine years back

Theres nothing wrong with more speed. The faster a bow goes the less drop it has and lessened chance of jumping the string resulting in less wounded or unrecoverable deer. The less drop an arrow has the easier it is to aim.

A faster rated bow can shoot a heavier arrow with more penetration and less drop with the same weight of arrow from a slower bow. More penetration potential is always a good thing [emoji6][emoji6]

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Originally Posted by Deer Wrastler

Theres nothing wrong with more speed. The faster a bow goes the less drop it has and lessened chance of jumping the string resulting in less wounded or unrecoverable deer. The less drop an arrow has the easier it is to aim.

A faster rated bow can shoot a heavier arrow with more penetration and less drop with the same weight of arrow from a slower bow. More penetration potential is always a good thing [emoji6][emoji6]

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The main issue I believe with these super fast bows now is that it promotes the inclination of archers, specially the younger ones, to shoot at much further distances of lets say 50 to even 80 yards because they can hit the target at those ranges. By doing that you lose those benefits you speak of that are certainly there at shorter distances. Also I highly doubt with the stress on those limbs that they will even come close to the durability and longevity that we've all seen with those older Excals like the Exomax, Exomag, Exocet, Phoenix etc. Looks like the Mag 340 is the only model now with a lifetime warranty. Plus I can still actually load my Exocet by hand if need be, I have the string marked, not a chance with the crazy draw weights out there now. Saying that, it sure would be nice to have a nice micro series bow just for the size difference, but my Exocet still kills just fine and I know I'll never be tempted to try any shot at extended ranges.
Cheers

I have the micro 335. When shooting from a blind or in a tight tree stand it shines big time. :)

New Excalibur model or old, it would take a lot to convince me to buy a crossbow from a different manufacturer. I've never seen a company that stands behind their products so much and provides the level of customer service that Excalibur does. That is true right up to this day.

EXCALIBUR CROSSBOWS - DEFINITELY DO BUY!!!

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Originally Posted by smitty55

The main issue I believe with these super fast bows now is that it promotes the inclination of archers, specially the younger ones, to shoot at much further distances of lets say 50 to even 80 yards because they can hit the target at those ranges. By doing that you lose those benefits you speak of that are certainly there at shorter distances. Also I highly doubt with the stress on those limbs that they will even come close to the durability and longevity that we've all seen with those older Excals like the Exomax, Exomag, Exocet, Phoenix etc. Looks like the Mag 340 is the only model now with a lifetime warranty. Plus I can still actually load my Exocet by hand if need be, I have the string marked, not a chance with the crazy draw weights out there now. Saying that, it sure would be nice to have a nice micro series bow just for the size difference, but my Exocet still kills just fine and I know I'll never be tempted to try any shot at extended ranges.
Cheers

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I agree, thats the same argument for black powder muzzys or really any gun or bow . Shoot within your abilities is something everyone should stick to. I dont understand why people think speed is a bad thing, probably the same people who think you cant have too much gun, (which you cant) lol

With my excal 400 if the limbs break Ill get a new set for free, and I dont plan on them breaking but if they do Im covered. Any brand can malfunction, each style of xbow has its pros and cons, find one you like and use it to take animals. I personally like the quietness of a compound xbow but I dont believe noise reduction helps string jump when shooting 30 yards so I went with an excal.

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Originally Posted by smitty55

The main issue I believe with these super fast bows now is that it promotes the inclination of archers, specially the younger ones, to shoot at much further distances of lets say 50 to even 80 yards because they can hit the target at those ranges. By doing that you lose those benefits you speak of that are certainly there at shorter distances. Also I highly doubt with the stress on those limbs that they will even come close to the durability and longevity that we've all seen with those older Excals like the Exomax, Exomag, Exocet, Phoenix etc. Looks like the Mag 340 is the only model now with a lifetime warranty. Plus I can still actually load my Exocet by hand if need be, I have the string marked, not a chance with the crazy draw weights out there now. Saying that, it sure would be nice to have a nice micro series bow just for the size difference, but my Exocet still kills just fine and I know I'll never be tempted to try any shot at extended ranges.
Cheers

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Less experienced hunters being tempted to make bad shots at further distances because of higher powered crossbows is a terrible arguement imo. It doesn't matter what the tool is, there will always be someone that will take risky shots regardless and It's irresponsible to hold hunters that do hunt responsibly to that standard. Fact of the matter is, if you don't know the limits of yourself and your weapon then don't hunt. If that person chooses to ignore that, then that's on them and ONLY them.
My xbow shoots 460fps, I can comfortably shoot 115 yards on a target with it and still have more than enough power to get a full passthrough on a deer with it at that range. I do not however shoot that far with deer. I've taken turkey at 65 yards and a buck at 70 yards.
This was seen as controversial despite:
1. Me having plenty of experience shooting at that range and further.
2. The fact that the buck was perfectly still and there was zero debris and wind between us.
3. The arrow landed exactly where I aimed, did a full passthrough, and the buck dropped dead within 30 yards.
4. The fact that a deer jumping the string at that distance just will not happen, you can pull up whatever chart you want I literally tested this, it's beyond discussion. On one sit I shot a doe 40 yards behind me that was accompanied by another doe, not only did that doe barely react when I shot her buddy. But the other THREE does in the same place I later shot this buck, didn't even so much as look my way. But none-the-less the knuckle-draggers persisted with their nonsense arguement. The range that deer most often jump the string at 30-45 yards, but once you pass that 50 yard mark the sound is so minimal that the deer react to it as if it was a twig breaking.

I have absolutely zero clue why it's perfectly acceptable for compound shooters to take elk and deer at 70-80 yards but when you do it with a crossbow that is MUCH more reliable/accurate and MUCH more powerful it's seen as heresy.

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Originally Posted by MihajloSimsic

Less experienced hunters being tempted to make bad shots at further distances because of higher powered crossbows is a terrible arguement imo. It doesn't matter what the tool is, there will always be someone that will take risky shots regardless and It's irresponsible to hold hunters that do hunt responsibly to that standard. Fact of the matter is, if you don't know the limits of yourself and your weapon then don't hunt. If that person chooses to ignore that, then that's on them and ONLY them.
My xbow shoots 460fps, I can comfortably shoot 115 yards on a target with it and still have more than enough power to get a full passthrough on a deer with it at that range. I do not however shoot that far with deer. I've taken turkey at 65 yards and a buck at 70 yards.
This was seen as controversial despite:
1. Me having plenty of experience shooting at that range and further.
2. The fact that the buck was perfectly still and there was zero debris and wind between us.
3. The arrow landed exactly where I aimed, did a full passthrough, and the buck dropped dead within 30 yards.
4. The fact that a deer jumping the string at that distance just will not happen, you can pull up whatever chart you want I literally tested this, it's beyond discussion. On one sit I shot a doe 40 yards behind me that was accompanied by another doe, not only did that doe barely react when I shot her buddy. But the other THREE does in the same place I later shot this buck, didn't even so much as look my way. But none-the-less the knuckle-draggers persisted with their nonsense arguement. The range that deer most often jump the string at 30-45 yards, but once you pass that 50 yard mark the sound is so minimal that the deer react to it as if it was a twig breaking.

I have absolutely zero clue why it's perfectly acceptable for compound shooters to take elk and deer at 70-80 yards but when you do it with a crossbow that is MUCH more reliable/accurate and MUCH more powerful it's seen as heresy.

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Mihajlo-posts by You brought in a new color to the forum,and that is a good thing. Change and novelty is always needed.
Representing one's belief is quite common,and standing up for them with great tenacity is the way of life on the Forum. After all- everyone here is inpersonal. No body language, no blush, no grimace. The OP can not be seen-the posters can not be seen, many time this leads to a give and take.

In this very forum there are very many old and respected hunters and members. Being old and experienced does not mean nothing though-if one is disrespectful, or not a team player(so to say).

Believing in shooting at live being at Hail Mary distances(being a gun or a bow)is everyone's own choice .After all-the shooter must make a peace with himself for the bad shot. I want to believe that every hunter in Ontario wants to do the best before pulling the trigger or release ,to support fair chase.
Name calling others for standing up for their beliefs is demeaning(ie Insulting) dont You think?

Calling opposing posters Knuckle -dragger is indeed a novelty on this forum!!!



Think about it....i am just saying.My 2 cents.

And please do not call my post "unneeded Indoctrination "or else , as happened to the other poster in the other thread!

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Originally Posted by MihajloSimsic

Less experienced hunters being tempted to make bad shots at further distances because of higher powered crossbows is a terrible arguement imo. It doesn't matter what the tool is, there will always be someone that will take risky shots regardless and It's irresponsible to hold hunters that do hunt responsibly to that standard. Fact of the matter is, if you don't know the limits of yourself and your weapon then don't hunt. If that person chooses to ignore that, then that's on them and ONLY them.
My xbow shoots 460fps, I can comfortably shoot 115 yards on a target with it and still have more than enough power to get a full passthrough on a deer with it at that range. I do not however shoot that far with deer. I've taken turkey at 65 yards and a buck at 70 yards.
This was seen as controversial despite:
1. Me having plenty of experience shooting at that range and further.
2. The fact that the buck was perfectly still and there was zero debris and wind between us.
3. The arrow landed exactly where I aimed, did a full passthrough, and the buck dropped dead within 30 yards.
4. The fact that a deer jumping the string at that distance just will not happen, you can pull up whatever chart you want I literally tested this, it's beyond discussion. On one sit I shot a doe 40 yards behind me that was accompanied by another doe, not only did that doe barely react when I shot her buddy. But the other THREE does in the same place I later shot this buck, didn't even so much as look my way. But none-the-less the knuckle-draggers persisted with their nonsense arguement. The range that deer most often jump the string at 30-45 yards, but once you pass that 50 yard mark the sound is so minimal that the deer react to it as if it was a twig breaking.

I have absolutely zero clue why it's perfectly acceptable for compound shooters to take elk and deer at 70-80 yards but when you do it with a crossbow that is MUCH more reliable/accurate and MUCH more powerful it's seen as heresy.

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Put a few more years experience and a few more deer under your belt and you can count yourself amongst the knuckle draggers too.

The blanket generalizations you make based on your few experiences are going to burn you bad one of these days. If you don't want to take the advice of people that have hunted with crossbows since they were made out of wood because you know it all based on your modern crossbow experiences, have at er lad.

That all being said, your posts and enthusiasm are a great addition to the forum and everyone is entitled to theirs. Your success speaks for itself, you don't have to prove anything to anyone here. Long range shooting is always an ethical debate here, be it archery or firearms. Some advice for the future, do what you like as long as it's legal. When it comes to publicly posting it, expect some backlash if it goes against the grain of what experienced hunters know.

It's a terrible argument to dismiss the decades, if not centuries of experience that have advised you against what you advocate for and insist that your limited experience is the truth.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by GW11

Put a few more years experience and a few more deer under your belt and you can count yourself amongst the knuckle draggers too.

The blanket generalizations you make based on your few experiences are going to burn you bad one of these days. If you don't want to take the advice of people that have hunted with crossbows since they were made out of wood because you know it all based on your modern crossbow experiences, have at er lad.

That all being said, your posts and enthusiasm are a great addition to the forum and everyone is entitled to theirs. Your success speaks for itself, you don't have to prove anything to anyone here. Long range shooting is always an ethical debate here, be it archery or firearms. Some advice for the future, do what you like as long as it's legal. When it comes to publicly posting it, expect some backlash if it goes against the grain of what experienced hunters know.

It's a terrible argument to dismiss the decades, if not centuries of experience that have advised you against what you advocate for and insist that your limited experience is the truth.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

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Mihajlo makes a good point - I dont know any archer who just takes blatant hail mary shots... people automatically assume anyone with a crossbow is out flinging long bombs simply bc they sont shoot trad or compound (same way a fly fisher turns their nose up to me with a spinning reel)
I dont know a SINGLE hunter who does not do everything they can to tune their arrows, dial in their bows (compound, trad or Xbow) to be as accurate as possible before season starts.
We have to remember, we have enough ANTI's out there we dont need to be dividing each other on here as well.
For you trad guys (and there are atleast two that I know of on here) who want to knock the crossbow - consider that the average new hunter coming into the sport most likely does not have a father/uncle showing him the ropes, and most likely lives in a house in suburbia with a postage sized stamp who cant fling arrows from the back deck and therefore a crossbow is an excellent tool if they wish to pursue hunting...
Just relax before you turn up your nose on us "lesser" crossbow hunters..for we have enough anti's looking to petition the few remaining convservation authorities left who allow hunting, you can look all around you to see these examples (yesterdays cormorant dumping in Orillia, fall turkey hunt cancelled in one township)
Lets all band together and have a great hunting season fellas! Whatever hunt is your style, bow, rifle, bait, treestand, dogging bush ---> if you are doing it legally and have a tag in your pocket you are a friend of mine!!!

Kokes- definitely i am not against crossbows ,i hunt with one..........i also do not advocate against new hunters, just in general i somehow do believe they need to learn some, and having open mind brings that to them........ makes them become better hunter in a long run........and that rudeness and being "smart" do not belong to the forum!
If one chooses to be one-expect backlash.

That said-please explain,how a low percentage shot taken at an animal ,with really high chance for the animal to be wounded and run away-helps the sport?

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Originally Posted by gbk

Kokes- definitely i am not against crossbows ,i hunt with one..........i also do not advocate against new hunters, just in general i somehow do believe they need to learn some, and having open mind brings that to them........ makes them become better hunter in a long run........and that rudeness and being "smart" do not belong to the forum!
If one chooses to be one-expect backlash.

That said-please explain,how a low percentage shot taken at an animal ,with really high chance for the animal to be wounded and run away-helps the sport?

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I totally agree with you GBK and beleive were on the same page - Im glad you asked the last question, I think we OVERESTIMATE the willingness of any hunter to take these low-odds, long shots to begin with - we just assume thats the case, and who are we to judge... All I am saying is all hunters I know look for the most ethical shot opportunity, and alot of times pass on shots they dont deem ethical, so we cant be so quick to judge. For every person boasting of a 50 yard double lung shot theres probably 25 that passed that shot (not saying anyone is right or wrong but who are we to judges others capability)

Personally, I do not want to take a shot over 30 yards, if I have a deer at 50 yards, I smile and say well, you won this time..and that makes it so much sweeter the next time I can get one in the range im comfortable with. We just cant be so quick to judge that just because of weapon choice (or weapon capability) that it means thats automatically a hunter thats making unethical shots. Hope that kind of makes sense?

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Originally Posted by gbk

Kokes- definitely i am not against crossbows ,i hunt with one..........i also do not advocate against new hunters, just in general i somehow do believe they need to learn some, and having open mind brings that to them........ makes them become better hunter in a long run........and that rudeness and being "smart" do not belong to the forum!
If one chooses to be one-expect backlash.

That said-please explain,how a low percentage shot taken at an animal ,with really high chance for the animal to be wounded and run away-helps the sport?

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I agree with what you're getting at here. Everyone should shoot within their ability. My point is that people are often very opinionated and very misinformed when it comes to shot distance. I've heard infinitely more bad shots taken at 30 yards than I have above 50, disproportionately. Especially considering the capabilities of archery equipment today. 70 yards is essentially childs play for my xbow.

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Originally Posted by MihajloSimsic

I agree with what you're getting at here. Everyone should shoot within their ability. My point is that people are often very opinionated and very misinformed when it comes to shot distance. I've heard infinitely more bad shots taken at 30 yards than I have above 50, disproportionately. Especially considering the capabilities of archery equipment today. 70 yards is essentially childs play for my xbow.

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I guess................................. I just worry too much....................................so I keep my shots under 30 yds..............................I am happy with that... It's a lot of fun :)

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Originally Posted by fratri

I guess................................. I just worry too much....................................so I keep my shots under 30 yds..............................I am happy with that... It's a lot of fun :)

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“A man’s got to know his limitations.”.......Dirty Harry !!

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Originally Posted by MihajloSimsic

I agree with what you're getting at here. Everyone should shoot within their ability. My point is that people are often very opinionated and very misinformed when it comes to shot distance. I've heard infinitely more bad shots taken at 30 yards than I have above 50, disproportionately. Especially considering the capabilities of archery equipment today. 70 yards is essentially childs play for my xbow.

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Mihajlo-once more,and i am done-shooting at targets at 70 yards is one thing, shooting at a live being (deer in this instance)is another.
I do not doubt you can take great shots even beyond 70.You have the gear,You have practiced, you have everything working for you to hit bullseye at 70.

But the target does not step, move a bit ,sneeze or changes body posture in a split second. That is when difference between a target and a live being comes into play.
You choose-and hope for the deer's sake,that you will always hit where You aim.

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Originally Posted by gbk

Mihajlo-once more,and i am done-shooting at targets at 70 yards is one thing, shooting at a live being (deer in this instance)is another.
I do not doubt you can take great shots even beyond 70.You have the gear,You have practiced, you have everything working for you to hit bullseye at 70.

But the target does not step, move a bit ,sneeze or changes body posture in a split second. That is when difference between a target and a live being comes into play.
You choose-and hope for the deer's sake,that you will always hit where You aim.

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I can agree with what you and everyone are saying here, I really appreciate the discussion. Although I do agree the "knuckle draggers" comment was poking a bit too much fun and unnecessary. I can assure you that I only take shots I'm confident with. The situation with the 70 yard shot was an uncommon situation because all the environmental factors lined up and I was sure the deer wasn't going to react or jump the string based on past experience in that specific area. When hunting with different gear like a recurve or slower crossbow all my hunting shots are within 20 yards because I don't set up further than that. In the end the "shot distance ethics" discussion comes down to knowing the limitations of yourself/gear and preference.

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Originally Posted by Fox

I wish I could find a paradox, remember that one? Compound bow with no let off.

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Fox I got one and have had it about 20 years and love it. I can't keep track of how many deer and bear my whole family has taken with it.

Just an amazing bow.

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Originally Posted by Fox

I wish I could find a paradox, remember that one? Compound bow with no let off.

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There is a maxpoint same bow as the paradox for sale on the Excalibur website in the classified ads. $250.00us and he ships to Canada.

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Originally Posted by Muskyhunter

Fox I got one and have had it about 20 years and love it. I can't keep track of how many deer and bear my whole family has taken with it.

Just an amazing bow.

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My dad's been using one for over 20 years as well. He's taken well over 60 deer+bear with it. It's still kicking good as new too! I took my first 3 bears with it. My favourite excal crossbow hands down.

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Originally Posted by Fox

I wish I could find a paradox, remember that one? Compound bow with no let off.

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I sold my paradox two years ago $400.00
Had two deer jump arrows enough