Excalibur crossbows - do not buy

[gbk]

Less experienced hunters being tempted to make bad shots at further distances because of higher powered crossbows is a terrible arguement imo. It doesn't matter what the tool is, there will always be someone that will take risky shots regardless and It's irresponsible to hold hunters that do hunt responsibly to that standard. Fact of the matter is, if you don't know the limits of yourself and your weapon then don't hunt. If that person chooses to ignore that, then that's on them and ONLY them.
My xbow shoots 460fps, I can comfortably shoot 115 yards on a target with it and still have more than enough power to get a full passthrough on a deer with it at that range. I do not however shoot that far with deer. I've taken turkey at 65 yards and a buck at 70 yards.
This was seen as controversial despite:
1. Me having plenty of experience shooting at that range and further.
2. The fact that the buck was perfectly still and there was zero debris and wind between us.
3. The arrow landed exactly where I aimed, did a full passthrough, and the buck dropped dead within 30 yards.
4. The fact that a deer jumping the string at that distance just will not happen, you can pull up whatever chart you want I literally tested this, it's beyond discussion. On one sit I shot a doe 40 yards behind me that was accompanied by another doe, not only did that doe barely react when I shot her buddy. But the other THREE does in the same place I later shot this buck, didn't even so much as look my way. But none-the-less the knuckle-draggers persisted with their nonsense arguement. The range that deer most often jump the string at 30-45 yards, but once you pass that 50 yard mark the sound is so minimal that the deer react to it as if it was a twig breaking.

I have absolutely zero clue why it's perfectly acceptable for compound shooters to take elk and deer at 70-80 yards but when you do it with a crossbow that is MUCH more reliable/accurate and MUCH more powerful it's seen as heresy.

Mihajlo-posts by You brought in a new color to the forum,and that is a good thing. Change and novelty is always needed.
Representing one's belief is quite common,and standing up for them with great tenacity is the way of life on the Forum. After all- everyone here is inpersonal. No body language, no blush, no grimace. The OP can not be seen-the posters can not be seen, many time this leads to a give and take.

In this very forum there are very many old and respected hunters and members. Being old and experienced does not mean nothing though-if one is disrespectful, or not a team player(so to say).

Believing in shooting at live being at Hail Mary distances(being a gun or a bow)is everyone's own choice .After all-the shooter must make a peace with himself for the bad shot. I want to believe that every hunter in Ontario wants to do the best before pulling the trigger or release ,to support fair chase.
Name calling others for standing up for their beliefs is demeaning(ie Insulting) dont You think?

Calling opposing posters Knuckle -dragger is indeed a novelty on this forum!!!



Think about it....i am just saying.My 2 cents.

And please do not call my post "unneeded Indoctrination "or else , as happened to the other poster in the other thread!

[GW11]

Less experienced hunters being tempted to make bad shots at further distances because of higher powered crossbows is a terrible arguement imo. It doesn't matter what the tool is, there will always be someone that will take risky shots regardless and It's irresponsible to hold hunters that do hunt responsibly to that standard. Fact of the matter is, if you don't know the limits of yourself and your weapon then don't hunt. If that person chooses to ignore that, then that's on them and ONLY them.
My xbow shoots 460fps, I can comfortably shoot 115 yards on a target with it and still have more than enough power to get a full passthrough on a deer with it at that range. I do not however shoot that far with deer. I've taken turkey at 65 yards and a buck at 70 yards.
This was seen as controversial despite:
1. Me having plenty of experience shooting at that range and further.
2. The fact that the buck was perfectly still and there was zero debris and wind between us.
3. The arrow landed exactly where I aimed, did a full passthrough, and the buck dropped dead within 30 yards.
4. The fact that a deer jumping the string at that distance just will not happen, you can pull up whatever chart you want I literally tested this, it's beyond discussion. On one sit I shot a doe 40 yards behind me that was accompanied by another doe, not only did that doe barely react when I shot her buddy. But the other THREE does in the same place I later shot this buck, didn't even so much as look my way. But none-the-less the knuckle-draggers persisted with their nonsense arguement. The range that deer most often jump the string at 30-45 yards, but once you pass that 50 yard mark the sound is so minimal that the deer react to it as if it was a twig breaking.

I have absolutely zero clue why it's perfectly acceptable for compound shooters to take elk and deer at 70-80 yards but when you do it with a crossbow that is MUCH more reliable/accurate and MUCH more powerful it's seen as heresy.

Put a few more years experience and a few more deer under your belt and you can count yourself amongst the knuckle draggers too.

The blanket generalizations you make based on your few experiences are going to burn you bad one of these days. If you don't want to take the advice of people that have hunted with crossbows since they were made out of wood because you know it all based on your modern crossbow experiences, have at er lad.

That all being said, your posts and enthusiasm are a great addition to the forum and everyone is entitled to theirs. Your success speaks for itself, you don't have to prove anything to anyone here. Long range shooting is always an ethical debate here, be it archery or firearms. Some advice for the future, do what you like as long as it's legal. When it comes to publicly posting it, expect some backlash if it goes against the grain of what experienced hunters know.

It's a terrible argument to dismiss the decades, if not centuries of experience that have advised you against what you advocate for and insist that your limited experience is the truth.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

[kokes]

Put a few more years experience and a few more deer under your belt and you can count yourself amongst the knuckle draggers too.

The blanket generalizations you make based on your few experiences are going to burn you bad one of these days. If you don't want to take the advice of people that have hunted with crossbows since they were made out of wood because you know it all based on your modern crossbow experiences, have at er lad.

That all being said, your posts and enthusiasm are a great addition to the forum and everyone is entitled to theirs. Your success speaks for itself, you don't have to prove anything to anyone here. Long range shooting is always an ethical debate here, be it archery or firearms. Some advice for the future, do what you like as long as it's legal. When it comes to publicly posting it, expect some backlash if it goes against the grain of what experienced hunters know.

It's a terrible argument to dismiss the decades, if not centuries of experience that have advised you against what you advocate for and insist that your limited experience is the truth.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

Mihajlo makes a good point - I dont know any archer who just takes blatant hail mary shots... people automatically assume anyone with a crossbow is out flinging long bombs simply bc they sont shoot trad or compound (same way a fly fisher turns their nose up to me with a spinning reel)
I dont know a SINGLE hunter who does not do everything they can to tune their arrows, dial in their bows (compound, trad or Xbow) to be as accurate as possible before season starts.
We have to remember, we have enough ANTI's out there we dont need to be dividing each other on here as well.
For you trad guys (and there are atleast two that I know of on here) who want to knock the crossbow - consider that the average new hunter coming into the sport most likely does not have a father/uncle showing him the ropes, and most likely lives in a house in suburbia with a postage sized stamp who cant fling arrows from the back deck and therefore a crossbow is an excellent tool if they wish to pursue hunting...
Just relax before you turn up your nose on us "lesser" crossbow hunters..for we have enough anti's looking to petition the few remaining convservation authorities left who allow hunting, you can look all around you to see these examples (yesterdays cormorant dumping in Orillia, fall turkey hunt cancelled in one township)
Lets all band together and have a great hunting season fellas! Whatever hunt is your style, bow, rifle, bait, treestand, dogging bush ---> if you are doing it legally and have a tag in your pocket you are a friend of mine!!!

[gbk]

Kokes- definitely i am not against crossbows ,i hunt with one..........i also do not advocate against new hunters, just in general i somehow do believe they need to learn some, and having open mind brings that to them........ makes them become better hunter in a long run........and that rudeness and being "smart" do not belong to the forum!
If one chooses to be one-expect backlash.

That said-please explain,how a low percentage shot taken at an animal ,with really high chance for the animal to be wounded and run away-helps the sport?

[kokes]

Kokes- definitely i am not against crossbows ,i hunt with one..........i also do not advocate against new hunters, just in general i somehow do believe they need to learn some, and having open mind brings that to them........ makes them become better hunter in a long run........and that rudeness and being "smart" do not belong to the forum!
If one chooses to be one-expect backlash.

That said-please explain,how a low percentage shot taken at an animal ,with really high chance for the animal to be wounded and run away-helps the sport?

I totally agree with you GBK and beleive were on the same page - Im glad you asked the last question, I think we OVERESTIMATE the willingness of any hunter to take these low-odds, long shots to begin with - we just assume thats the case, and who are we to judge... All I am saying is all hunters I know look for the most ethical shot opportunity, and alot of times pass on shots they dont deem ethical, so we cant be so quick to judge. For every person boasting of a 50 yard double lung shot theres probably 25 that passed that shot (not saying anyone is right or wrong but who are we to judges others capability)

Personally, I do not want to take a shot over 30 yards, if I have a deer at 50 yards, I smile and say well, you won this time..and that makes it so much sweeter the next time I can get one in the range im comfortable with. We just cant be so quick to judge that just because of weapon choice (or weapon capability) that it means thats automatically a hunter thats making unethical shots. Hope that kind of makes sense?

[MihajloSimsic]

Kokes- definitely i am not against crossbows ,i hunt with one..........i also do not advocate against new hunters, just in general i somehow do believe they need to learn some, and having open mind brings that to them........ makes them become better hunter in a long run........and that rudeness and being "smart" do not belong to the forum!
If one chooses to be one-expect backlash.

That said-please explain,how a low percentage shot taken at an animal ,with really high chance for the animal to be wounded and run away-helps the sport?

I agree with what you're getting at here. Everyone should shoot within their ability. My point is that people are often very opinionated and very misinformed when it comes to shot distance. I've heard infinitely more bad shots taken at 30 yards than I have above 50, disproportionately. Especially considering the capabilities of archery equipment today. 70 yards is essentially childs play for my xbow.

[fratri]

I agree with what you're getting at here. Everyone should shoot within their ability. My point is that people are often very opinionated and very misinformed when it comes to shot distance. I've heard infinitely more bad shots taken at 30 yards than I have above 50, disproportionately. Especially considering the capabilities of archery equipment today. 70 yards is essentially childs play for my xbow.

I guess................................. I just worry too much....................................so I keep my shots under 30 yds..............................I am happy with that... It's a lot of fun

[rick_iles]

I guess................................. I just worry too much....................................so I keep my shots under 30 yds..............................I am happy with that... It's a lot of fun

“A man’s got to know his limitations.”.......Dirty Harry !!

[gbk]

I agree with what you're getting at here. Everyone should shoot within their ability. My point is that people are often very opinionated and very misinformed when it comes to shot distance. I've heard infinitely more bad shots taken at 30 yards than I have above 50, disproportionately. Especially considering the capabilities of archery equipment today. 70 yards is essentially childs play for my xbow.

Mihajlo-once more,and i am done-shooting at targets at 70 yards is one thing, shooting at a live being (deer in this instance)is another.
I do not doubt you can take great shots even beyond 70.You have the gear,You have practiced, you have everything working for you to hit bullseye at 70.

But the target does not step, move a bit ,sneeze or changes body posture in a split second. That is when difference between a target and a live being comes into play.
You choose-and hope for the deer's sake,that you will always hit where You aim.

[MihajloSimsic]

Mihajlo-once more,and i am done-shooting at targets at 70 yards is one thing, shooting at a live being (deer in this instance)is another.
I do not doubt you can take great shots even beyond 70.You have the gear,You have practiced, you have everything working for you to hit bullseye at 70.

But the target does not step, move a bit ,sneeze or changes body posture in a split second. That is when difference between a target and a live being comes into play.
You choose-and hope for the deer's sake,that you will always hit where You aim.

I can agree with what you and everyone are saying here, I really appreciate the discussion. Although I do agree the "knuckle draggers" comment was poking a bit too much fun and unnecessary. I can assure you that I only take shots I'm confident with. The situation with the 70 yard shot was an uncommon situation because all the environmental factors lined up and I was sure the deer wasn't going to react or jump the string based on past experience in that specific area. When hunting with different gear like a recurve or slower crossbow all my hunting shots are within 20 yards because I don't set up further than that. In the end the "shot distance ethics" discussion comes down to knowing the limitations of yourself/gear and preference.