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This type of thing has never been my experience in a life time of hunting with dogs. My credo is that, game should die by the hunters hand not the hounds tooth.
I'm sorry but I don't agree with this.
Agreed !Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldtrip
No context so its hard to say whats going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldtrip
If they are hunting that's a really interesting way to get it done which I do not condone. I know everyone hates coyotes as do I but that's not a good look on hunters.
Kinda reminds me of the knucklehead that speared a bear in BC I think...now hes back in the news getting charged for poaching lol so what goes around comes around.
These sight dogs are used to catch and kill coyotes. Big ranches out west n down south they bring the Lurcher dogs to run them down. I know a few guys with these dogs but they are only used to end the hunt. Run the scent dogs until they are headed to where they can't hunt and dump the sight dogs to catch and end it.
What I dont agree with is videoing the chase and posting it online. These dogs will be banned like pit bulls soon enough.
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Well some may not like it or agree that it is even hunting, there is no real evil or cruelty evolved. In nature members of one pack/pride/species attack and kill members of other packs/prides/species all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by SongDog
Some use bait for deer/bears, some don't and some think it's evil. Where do you draw the line.
If we ban catch dogs, then the next is chase dogs, and then the hunt it's self.
The hunting regulations are based on good management practices, some safety practices and coming in last is rules against stupidity/cruelty.
It’s dog fighting. But just the end of the fight. I dunno how I feel about this
Honestly its not hunting at all when you chase an animal in a vehicle until gased then release fresh dogs. IMHO its kind of offensive to watch.
There is nothing fair chase about running down animal by vehicle.
You draw the line at not racing through a field to release the hounds IMO. Thats where I had an issue, not the killing part but driving through a field to catch up to the yote. Coyotes suck but is that the only way to protect your herd by running them down? Either way if thats accepted by the yote hunting community ok fine but dont post it online for others to judge and misinterpret.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Same reason we dont post gory pictures of our hunting and fishing experiences or at least ought not to IMO, its a bad look on those of us who preserve our image.
Should we not post this type of video as well? I mean you can see the cute animals getting shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Wrastler
https://youtu.be/UneMIa7Jiek
I hear ya, I didn't say these dogs should be banned. I'd own one if I had the land to run it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Its the truck bombing across the field wearing the coyote down then releasing the dogs to just finish it.
I understand the hunt, I just don't think posting this on the internet is doing our sport any good. Look how many hunters on "this" site dont agree with it.
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I do not think it is anything more then pest control. There are NO States or Provinces where it is legal to chase an animal in a vehicle..But were they chasing the coyote or moving to get the catch dogs in front of the coyote being chased by other hounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by SongDog
Similar techniques are used to hunt pigs, with dogs chasing and hunters following on quads with dogs trained to attack and hold the pig for the hunters..
I don't agree with partaking or posting this stuff. Its a good way to fuel the antis. Last I checked , using a motor vehicle to chase or harrass game is illegal.
Was he chasing the coyote or moving to get dogs in front?Quote:
Originally Posted by Goosechsr
Completely valid point, and without the full video there is no way of knowing. However the footage I see is only a truck/ side by side with nothing between the vehicle and the yote. Not fair chase in my books at all. If the dogs need a "lift" to get the upper hand, then something is seriously wrong here.
More video would be very helpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goosechsr
Thing is chase dogs( like greyhounds, Foxhounds, whipits, etc) are not good catch dogs, and good catch dogs are not good chase dogs.
They could be also be just putting fresh dogs out to continue the chase. Get the fresh dogs on the trail and bring the tired ones to hand.
Here a great idea! Let's put down this guys way of dealing with predators which may be costing him thousands! Lets put down his way of hunting so he can in turn put down our ways of doing things. Here's a good start to no baiting, no dog use, no decoys..... sheeeeit, can't call ducks, its not fair because they think other ducks are there!
If we want our heritage to continue, we need to support legal hunting. The antis can band together and pick us apart because we pick each other apart.
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I don't know I think a catch dog can be a chase dog, depends on the breed.What do you think of this video,I can tell you this is an accurate video as I regularly run my Dogo most days 5-7 kms without it breaking a sweat and he is now 9 years old.Mind you I am running with him i'm not driving a pickup truck,they are capable of great bursts of speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhOdn1X3Hqs
This is done to protect calfs and sheep.
Years ago they used poison.
These guys are not out looking for trophy
.
I have no trouble with a bullet to the head, it's dead and then eat it. Anything that causes an animal to suffer for any length of time I can't support. I'm all for killing coyotes who are killing a farmer's live stock; killing for fun bothers me .
Impressive speed, but for how long? A 800 yard run... half mile, a mile, or mile and a half?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
Let's say a mile to mile and half. We got a kennel of those Dogo. Since a coyote can run for a few miles. We would have to drop fresh dogs every mile or so, and collect tired ones.
No Trophy. The dogs are holding the coyote not killing it, unless a dog happens to get it by the throat.Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchhunter
As effective as catching a coyote maybe, it is even more effective on the ones that get away. They are being conditioned avoid dogs and hopefully livestock.
As said below this is done to protect livestock. From what I understand a lot of the Coyotes out run the dogs, but the ones caught are quickly dispatched.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
Dogos are breed specifically to run in a pack,scent hogs and catch,holding them for their masters on horseback to dispatch them by knife.So very long distance runners,capable of great speed and with the bite to dispatch a coyote,solo never mindQuote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
in a pack.
Well a pig is a sprinter with a top speed of 11 Mph. A Greyhound has a top speed of 39.5 Mpg and a coyote has a top speed of 42.9 Mpg. That could change the game a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
Your Dogo has a top speed of 54....."KPH" so a little over 30 mph.
No doubt the dogo can handle the coyote....If it can catch it. Maybe run the Coyotes with greyhounds and get the Dogo out in front to catch a more tired out Coyote with fresh dogs.
Any kind of killing of any animal should be as quick, painless and humane as possible.
There nothing about that that I could support.
Protecting livestock should be everybit as humane as hunting, it's killing of an animal. I'm all about protecting my investments, but not at all like that savagery.
So you would never hunt pigs with dogs or tree bears/cougars/Bobcats/ Raccoons with dogs? How about using dogs for deer? You know that is legal right? How many times has a rabbit hound caught the rabbit? Should we outlaw hunting with beagles and other hounds?Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
How about the retrieve that runs down a wounded goose and dispatches it by grabbing the head or neck and shaking?
It's very close to the lift and snap technique used by hunters to dispatch a goose or other bird..
Or do you prefer sliding the blade of a finishing knife up the back of the spine and scrambling the brain?
Not against being humane, just asking what you think is or is not humane.
Sure have hunted with dogs, its called fair chase and we don't use a vehicle to run down the animals until they are to weak and easy prey, only to allow it to be torn to death by fresh savage dogs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Maybe explain to the forum how ethical it would be to run down a deer with a truck full of Rottweilers across open plains until its gassed out, then open the doors and let the Rottweilers tear its throat out until dead. Hunting is to take an animal as humane as possible, killing any animal big or small should be humane.
I think anyone who enjoys watching videos like you posted have serious problems, its sickening imo
Here in the complete video, you can see that they are driving around till they see a coyote and then releasing the hounds to give chase. They then follow the hounds in the truck....Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
https://youtu.be/jkTw8u6qY2M
Kind of a falconry thing but with trucks and dogs not birds and horses.
As for legal...well it looks to be in Kansas.
Thanks, but no thanks. To each their own I have already seen enough for my liking, Cheers
Have you ever seen how yokes or wolves take down and eat a deer?Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
Luckily for the animals, they have endorphin release when being attacked which allows them to feel almost none of it.
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I understand nature and how it works indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
I don't support the actions in the video, won't ever.
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
"How many times has a rabbit hound caught the rabbit?"
If your trying insinuate something, I'll call that bs. I'll assume its a legit question and answer. Beagles very rarely catch a rabbit or hare. Beagles are scent hounds and trail game by scent as opposed to sight hounds like greyhounds, or saluki etc. which chase game by sight. The intention of using Beagles is for them to trail the rabbits or hare back to the hunter. In 40 plus years of hunting rabbits with Beagles, the hounds rarely catch rabbits or hare. I would be very cautious if they do, Its been my experience that these rabbits are diseased or infirm and would advise against consuming them.
Oh WOW.. tell how you really feel. My foxhound would catch Jackrabbits and cotton tails.. so yes they do catch them.Quote:
Originally Posted by swampsinger
Macy's first rabbit( she is a beagle) was caught by her in thick brush. She then dragged it out to me. Nice healthy bunny, but likely very tired.
I'm sorry, but if are trying to claim that Beagles routinely run down or catch rabbits that is a misrepresentation of reality. Yeah that's how I really feel. Besides my hunting experience I am also a licensed CKC Field trial Judge. I have judged at over 50 field trials, all over eastern Canada and New England, and had the honor of judging the Canadian National Field Trial on three occasions as well as the International Hare Futurity. What does that mean besides bragging, I've watched and judged thousands of Beagles in all weather and terrain. It is not my experience to see Beagles run down or catch rabbits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
I'm that a dog will occasionally catch a rabbit, grouse or whatever. But that isn't the idea of using dogs.Quote:
Originally Posted by swampsinger
Without Beagles you can walk around the marlborough forest for a week and not see a hare. I will describe a typical Hare hunt. You release or "cast" your beagles in a likely spot, a nice thick cedar swamp. The Hounds usually one or two, search or follow "night lines" till they "jump" a Hare which starts a race. This usually takes 1 to 30 minutes. Now that the Hare is up and moving out of its daytime "form" its the job of hounds to keep it moving by giving tongue along the Hare's scent trail. Hare run in circular patterns all over their range utilizing their own trails. Its the job of the hunter to intercept the Hare as it runs out in front of the Beagles. I think there are three main ways you would do this. One would be post at the spot where the Hare was jumped. The Hare might run all over hells 1/2 acre but it will eventually come right back to where the race started. Secondly you might be able to pattern the Hare if it uses the same path over and over as circles around its range and post on that path. The third method is to anticipate the route the Hare will take. Through experience you can recognize natural funnels in the terrain that Hare will use. These races can take 3 minutes or 3 hrs. depending on conditions. I hope this helps you understand the hound and hunter working as a team.Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldtrip
Correct. But as I said about the coyote hunts.." A lot of the coyotes outrun the dogs, but the dogs do catch and hold one now and then". The hunters still have to dispatch the coyote, the dogs are to chase and catch. The same as a pig hunt. Dogs chase, dogs catch and hold the pig, but the hunters ether kill or tie the pig.Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldtrip
Well said! I remember dad and I sitting on a hill near where the rabbit was scented by the beagle, finishing our coffee, and waiting for our beagles to bring the rabbit around and back. It always did. :) (We bred beagles for 20+ years.)Quote:
Originally Posted by swampsinger