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Thread: Quality Deer Management Association

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noseyarentcha View Post
    I only have a tag for a buck, that's why I keep saying a buck instead of a deer....funny tidbit...my best gf who is a newbie too, when asked if she wanted to be put in the draw, replied "No thank you".
    .....the next day when we met for coffee and she told me, we nearly fell over laughing cuz she thought it was a draw for some kind of hunting trip lottery, not realizing she may have gotten a doe tag. Tee Hee Hee
    Two women with buck tags.
    1 male mentor.
    What are the odds? LOL
    Too funny! When a CO asks her if she has a PAL tell her not to say "yes, I do , it's Noseyarentcha"
    So many critters & so little time to hunt......

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  3. #62
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    Just one more point before I fade to black on this thread...

    The QDMA folks have this premise that their efforts to create 'Quality Deer' ..(their euphemism for Trophy Racks)...are some how more altruistic because they 'give back' by creating safe environments and provide nutrition for the deer. Unfortunately that is at odds with the MNR/Biologist that do not condone mans interventions in managing deer, it's not welcomed and is ill advised and in some case illegal.

    Deer are wild animals that are more than capable of taking care of themselves. In fact they do so well in some agricultural areas they become over populated and become a problem with human/deer conflicts and they over burden their food resources. That's when we, hunters, are used to cull the herds to bring the ratios (#/KM) back in line. The MNR issues more Doe tags and make more surplus tags available to achieve those goals, for the over all health and well being of the herd.

    So I stand by my statement; as a hunter, I do my part to 'give back' by killing deer without exceptions . By doing so, it reduces the overall population, not just the Mature Bucks and increases the overall survivability of the whole herd.

    The goal of the yearly cull (hunt) is to manage the deer ratio per km so as to ensure the remaining deer have sufficient food/space to survive the winters and reduce human/deer conflicts. Period. Hunting only for 'Quality/Mature/Trophy Racked' deer is counter productive in achieving that goal, especially when a hunter would rather eat tag soup than kill a 4 point buck, doe or fawn...and I have hunted with a few like that.

    "Beam me outta here Scotty" ...LOL
    Last edited by MikePal; November 26th, 2016 at 03:37 PM.

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregoire1960 View Post
    Too funny! When a CO asks her if she has a PAL tell her not to say "yes, I do , it's Noseyarentcha"
    Omg stopppp...i just arrived at my hunting spot and i can't stop laughing! ....throwing phone in pond.
    My attitude towards you depends upon how you have treated me.

  5. #64
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    MIKEPAL

    "The QDMA folks have this premise that their efforts to create 'Quality Deer' ..(their euphemism for
    Trophy Racks)...are some how more altruistic because they 'give back' by creating safe environments and provide nutrition for the deer. Unfortunately that is at odds with the MNR/Biologist that do not condone mans interventions in managing deer, it's not welcomed and is ill advised and in some case illegal."

    Really the MNR/Biologist do not condone mans interventions in managing deer,its not welcome and is ill advised and in some cases illegal.

    Wow I feel really bad now because the MNR staff in Bancroft gave me money in two separate years to "create food-plots" on my property with the plan setting out where they were and so forth.So before you fly away in your space ship maybe you can explain this.
    It was also not a "ONE OFF" as friends also got the same grants. LOL
    Last edited by Gilroy; November 26th, 2016 at 05:23 PM.

  6. #65
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    Last edited by MikePal; November 26th, 2016 at 05:37 PM.

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikePal View Post
    Just one more point before I fade to black on this thread...

    The QDMA folks have this premise that their efforts to create 'Quality Deer' ..(their euphemism for Trophy Racks)...are some how more altruistic because they 'give back' by creating safe environments and provide nutrition for the deer. Unfortunately that is at odds with the MNR/Biologist that do not condone mans interventions in managing deer, it's not welcomed and is ill advised and in some case illegal.

    Deer are wild animals that are more than capable of taking care of themselves. In fact they do so well in some agricultural areas they become over populated and become a problem with human/deer conflicts and they over burden their food resources. That's when we, hunters, are used to cull the herds to bring the ratios (#/KM) back in line. The MNR issues more Doe tags and make more surplus tags available to achieve those goals, for the over all health and well being of the herd.

    So I stand by my statement; as a hunter, I do my part to 'give back' by killing deer without exceptions . By doing so, it reduces the overall population, not just the Mature Bucks and increases the overall survivability of the whole herd.

    The goal of the yearly cull (hunt) is to manage the deer ratio per km so as to ensure the remaining deer have sufficient food/space to survive the winters and reduce human/deer conflicts. Period. Hunting only for 'Quality/Mature/Trophy Racked' deer is counter productive in achieving that goal, especially when a hunter would rather eat tag soup than kill a 4 point buck, doe or fawn...and I have hunted with a few like that.

    "Beam me outta here Scotty" ...LOL
    I think you're giving the MNRF quite a bit of credit here. WMU's are large. Depending on what part of the province you're in, the differences in whitetail population, sex ratio, and age ratio can be drastic over just a few kms, based on a million different factors. From my experiences with the QDMA, the biggest activity they encourage before doing anything, is to take a census, scout, and understand what your hunting area has. Then provide ideas to improve responsibly. I'll never understand what the resistance to this is for some. There seems to be some here that paint the entire organization and general philosophy with a broad brush.
    I find they provide valuable information for those who want to become more involved in their hunting experience beyond taking the first animal available and calling it a year.
    Don't worry fellas, you're safe, Ontario won't be putting in antler restrictions anytime soon.
    A trophy is in the eye of the bow holder

  8. #67
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    Well I,am sorry to break and news to you but mans intervention is actually what is making the herd prosper everything we do and have done the deer have benefited from,be it logging to farming and everything in between.

    p.s. All those warnings form the MNR its not that long ago they pushed for winter feeding and even provided the means.
    Last edited by Gilroy; November 26th, 2016 at 06:17 PM.

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher View Post
    I think you're giving the MNRF quite a bit of credit here. WMU's are large. Depending on what part of the province you're in, the differences in whitetail population, sex ratio, and age ratio can be drastic over just a few kms, based on a million different factors. From my experiences with the QDMA, the biggest activity they encourage before doing anything, is to take a census, scout, and understand what your hunting area has. Then provide ideas to improve responsibly. I'll never understand what the resistance to this is for some. There seems to be some here that paint the entire organization and general philosophy with a broad brush.
    I find they provide valuable information for those who want to become more involved in their hunting experience beyond taking the first animal available and calling it a year.
    Don't worry fellas, you're safe, Ontario won't be putting in antler restrictions anytime soon.
    Extremely well stated. The MNR Doesn't do what's best for the deer herd, they fulfill gov't objectives based on the input of farmers, the insurance industry, animal rights advocates, hunters and others. They can't even tell you the deer density in any given WMU (yes, I tried to obtain that info and all I got was an estimate of 2 - 5 deer per sq. km. for "much of eastern Ontario", based on harvest reports), because they don't have the manpower or money... QDMA teaches you how to do a camera census to determine an accurate figure for your area.

    When they were giving out doe tags like candy a number of years ago we didn't fill many tags because it was obvious from our survey that it was a bad idea. We could have hammered the doe population (as I'm sure "some people" did) with the gov'ts blessing, but we knew better and, as a result, in recent years, have had better results than many gangs just a few miles from here.
    So many critters & so little time to hunt......

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikePal View Post
    Unfortunately that is at odds with the MNR/Biologist that do not condone mans interventions in managing deer, it's not welcomed and is ill advised and in some case illegal.

    The goal of the yearly cull (hunt) is to manage the deer ratio per km so as to ensure the remaining deer have sufficient food/space to survive the winters and reduce human/deer conflicts. Period.
    Not going to get into the whole QDMA thing as for the most part I more or less agree with a lot of what you have posted. However I do not think it is quite as black and white as you are trying to make it out.

    The very fact that the MNR issues tags and in some cases antlerless tags and/or additionals contradicts the first statement. By doing so the MNR is directly supporting mans intervention in managing deer populations.

    The second statement is true but is not "period." In many northern WMUs that have moose for instance the MNR is actively trying to reduce deer numbers to well below carrying capacity with the primary goal being to give the Moose a leg up on the deer. This is well documented in the Cervid Ecological Framework document published by the province:

    https://dr6j45jk9xcmk.cloudfront.net...086/263997.pdf

    The framework also makes reference to habitat management with the primary mechanism being forestry management. This sounds to me like more intervention by man and makes reference to both public and privately held land. Lastly (there may be more - I only skimmed the document) the framework makes reference to managing populations for aboriginals, hunting, cultural benefits, tourist and viewing opportunities, and to prevent conflicts. The reference to hunting is not in the context of a "culling tool" but rather as a benefit. The way you are presenting hunting it sounds like if the population were the way the MNR wanted it than there would be no hunting as culling would not be necessary. I do not believe that is the case but rather that the MNR partly manages the population so that we can conduct cultural/economic activities like hunting with the added population benefit of culling when/where necessary.

    Quote from the framework:

    "The goal of Ontario’s broader cervid management program is to ensureecologically sustainable cervid populations and the ecosystems on which theyrely, for the continuous ecological, cultural, economic and social benefits for thepeople of Ontario."

    I read that as saying the population is managed (by man) so that we can have hunting as a cultural and economic activity. The way you have framed it is that we have culling to manage - order (and priority to me) is reversed.
    Last edited by Species8472; November 26th, 2016 at 08:08 PM.
    The wilderness is not a stadium where I satisfy my ambition to achieve, it is the cathedral where I worship.

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregoire1960 View Post
    Extremely well stated. The MNR Doesn't do what's best for the deer herd, they fulfill gov't objectives based on the input of farmers, the insurance industry, animal rights advocates, hunters and others. They can't even tell you the deer density in any given WMU (yes, I tried to obtain that info and all I got was an estimate of 2 - 5 deer per sq. km. for "much of eastern Ontario", based on harvest reports), because they don't have the manpower or money... QDMA teaches you how to do a camera census to determine an accurate figure for your area.

    When they were giving out doe tags like candy a number of years ago we didn't fill many tags because it was obvious from our survey that it was a bad idea. We could have hammered the doe population (as I'm sure "some people" did) with the gov'ts blessing, but we knew better and, as a result, in recent years, have had better results than many gangs just a few miles from here.
    I agree that the MNR is usually about two or three years behind what is actually happening with the deer population but the "some people" you refer to are actually the vast majority of hunters.

    You're free to practice what you like but the reality is that the majority I refer to are never going to get on board with QDMA practices. Your apparent disdain for the average meat hunter or average hunter in general is what gets under people's skin. I don't have any issues with you practicing what interests you on your property. Why does is bother you that the rest of us partake in a perfectly legal and enjoyable form of deer hunting? I like a nice set of antlers when I luck into them, but every deer is a trophy to me and the fellows I hunt with.

    We're all on the same team, our style of play is different, that's all. There will still be plenty of deer in the province long after you and I are gone, regardless of how we hunt them and what we choose to shoot.
    "where a man feels at home, outside of where he's born, is where he's meant to go"
    ​- Ernest Hemingway

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