Looking for a hunter with a small male setter

[terrym]

My dog can't turn it off. It's just what he is but I wouldn't go down the doggie Rydalin road. Man/breeders created these dogs so if they aren't a good match then best to avoid them. In this day of information access it's pretty easy to research bloodlines.

[sidelock]

[QUOTE=welsh;1003223]Catching up ... been out of town. Pardon the shotgun post.



Benefits of line breeding are demonstrated, but a line of dogs identical in every respect ought to set a warning light flashing re lack of genetic diversity. If you get a serious problem in that line you can't eliminate it without an outcross, and if that breeding now dominates the breed's gene pool.... Well, look at some of the problems that come up in the show ring.

I would rather see a population of dogs that show great working ability across the board with a lot of variation in size, etc., than see a population of clones.


I think Ferrell knows a thing or two about breeding, as of last year, Six miller prefix dogs have been inducted to the Field Trial Hall Of Fame, 6 Miller prefix dogs won the grand daddy of them all the National Championship, a three hour endurance stake commonly run under brutal conditions that requires two prior Championship wins just to qualify and if you take away the wins by Shadow Oak Bo in 2013 & 2014, 12 of the last 17 National Champions have Miller sires or dogs in their pedigree. Not to mention the Master himself has accumulated over 1,000 field trial placements.
Don't think he's too worried or concerned about genetic diversity, its there he's just a master at knowing exactly how and when to use it and maintain consistency, that's what sets him apart.

[Cass]

In any case, this is the natural state of those dogs. And the kicker is, these are the dogs he wants to work with in his training program, because these are the dogs that do the job best. These are the dogs field trialers breed. I'd say there is a real risk in manipulating that with medication.

Agreed. One has to remember too that with high powered, field trial bred working dogs they are going to need more work to stay content. Spaniels in general are nutty - mine is definitely a good example of that. He never settles - but I don't think its ADHD - he just needs to keep his mind and body busy. It all depends on the type of dog you work best with. Mine is a bit high powered for my experience level. I would do better with a lower keyed dog. And sometimes (often times) a dog just simply doesn't have what it takes to excel in a competitive field trial environment - no amount of experience or ribbons that the trainer has earned can change that. When working for a person who owns one of those type of dogs its hard if they don't want to tell them that. If it was the trainer's personal dog, it would just be moved on to make room for the next prospective winner.

[sidelock]

Did Big Gunner post a link to a GSP kennel that the moderators removed or am I missing something here ?.

[Cass]

I feel you took my post as an attack on you. It wasn't. Your evaluation of UK dogs vs north American is concerning though. Luckily there are lots of breeders out there that market dogs to your niche.

[Sharon]

Did Big Gunner post a link to a GSP kennel that the moderators removed or am I missing something here ?.

Yes they did. They are very strict about any kind of subtle free( on purpose or not), advertising, which is the way it must be. Unfortunately, in this case the whole thread was about that ad so......Fortunately,we are good at changing the subject when needed.

We can now talk about breeding ethics, Ritalin use, censoring or.....

[krakadawn]

It is very interesting to think that our dogs can be ADHD. For sure we as humans seek to explain certain animal behaviours based on our understanding of the human condition....that's how we rationalize.

I have had many retrievers, almost all high prey drive style dogs. To a dog they have been willing partners to learn and respond and all have been brought up to have an off switch while in the house. Currently I have one male who tries to run across water and has tremendous drive. He is extremely calm in the house. His challenge though is to 'put him in school' while training so that lessons are learned and he is paying attention as a team player. He needs to do his part which means to pay attention while we re working.

I would never think to use a ecollar to put him 'in school' Collar use is specific to lack of effort with known tasks. Taking a cast into the wind would be an example.

Comments have been made about the push to medicate our children. The facts are clear about that. It is my believe that in many of these situations the child's behaviour can be clearly linked to lack of parenting...certainly good, solid parenting is lacking. Many parents feel relieved when a diagnosis is confirmed as it takes them off the hook. I'm sure most understand that the family of drugs like Ritalin are stimulants not sedative in nature. They elevate the threshold for one to attend.

I'd like to think that sound sequential and solid pedagogical programs help people teach dogs the skills they want. No doubt there are better candidates in the 'cookie jar' though and that's where knowing the characteristics of the parents and the tendency to throw such traits comes in.

Before I'd want to confirm an ADHD diagnosis I'd want to see the dog, see your training techniques, how you approach the total learning package for your dog. Lots of questions about how one trains.....
-are you sequential?
-are you informed?
-What's your timing like?
-how do you reinforce the learning/teaching
-how do you maintain current skills?
-how frequently do you train?
-do you teach one thing and test another!!
-how high are your standards and are they consistent? The list goes on.....

One particular seminar I attended had several 'wild childs' in attendance that appeared unfocussed and out of control with their owner. They were 'in school' very quickly by the trainer and consequently were more focussed and learned the intended lesson.

My point in all of this is that we need to take a very close look at the dog's environment and the skills of the trainer before we wish to write off the dog to a medical condition.

[Cass]

It's concerning because they are bred for 2 very different styles of hunting. There are folks out there that play on misconceptions of temperament

[krakadawn]

Good stuff YD. An answer can come in many forms, glad you've found success.

I do respectfully disagree with your statement about ADHD and parenting. No doubt it can be a genetic(actually chemical) disorder or unbalance; however with over 30 years working with children who are believed or confirmed to have said conditions there is a strong causal relationship with poor parenting and that is quite clear. But remember I didn't say all

[Sharon]

Ah now I can go off topic.
I taught special needs children/ inmates for about 50 years,(Special Education degree). The argument about medication use has been around forever. A new thing learned over the past 25 years is that it doesn't go away, but continues to affect adult years.

More cases are now diagnosed , because we are better at diagnosing. When I was in public school you just kept failing until 16 and left.

Over the years , I saw MANY children/adults become happy, and functioning well academically due to the proper use of medication - not sedation.

............................


" strong causal relationship with poor parenting " quote
Not in my studying nor experience. It is a genetic disorder, ( Very common for boys born to fathers having Add to also have Add.) Also not caused by laziness, low intelligence nor poor motivation, although continuing to hit your head against a brick wall at school can definitely lead to poor motivation.

http://www.health.com/health/gallery...441463,00.html

other myths:

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid...poor+parenting