Unknown champions

[vom Dufenshmirtz]

[COLOR=#333333]A dog from a source you trust and a field-grade gun will make for wonderful hunts and fond family memories.

Sign me up

My neighbour is going to breed his ankle biter (Maltese, I think) to another of the same breed in the neighborhood, they go for at least $1000, no papers. No health checks, no thinking about suitability of the mates and what kind of pups they will produce.

Cover dog setters go up to US$1000, but the best ones are usually not sold.
Munsters go for US1200-1800 and I heard Weims for around 2000, but those are fancy and 'rare' breeds.
Most versatile breeds are in the 1000-2000 range. The closer you get to a simple hunting dog, the cheaper it gets, like beagles. City folks are usually prepared to pay more for their stuff, incl. the dogs.
To anyone who says they don't have the 1-2K for the pup they want, I'd say you have no business of owing a hunting dogs, because the training, food and vet bills will be much much more. Gone are the days when the pups were only the hunting dogs, they're members of our families now, try telling the kids you had to shoot Fido, because the vet bill would have been more than the cost of a new one

[Mount Sweetness]

Who gets the last word?
Keep it going

[terrym]

Like I said earlier. The purchase price is nothing compared to the costs of caring for a bird dog.

[ninepointer]

To anyone who says they don't have the 1-2K for the pup they want, I'd say you have no business of owing a hunting dogs, because the training, food and vet bills will be much much more. Gone are the days when the pups were only the hunting dogs, they're members of our families now, try telling the kids you had to shoot Fido, because the vet bill would have been more than the cost of a new one

That's a pretty elitist statement to say that someone actually has "no right" to have a bird dog unless they pay for pedigree, titles and professional training. The cost of buying and owning a bird dog need be no more than the cost of buying and owning any other dog. A person who studies and puts in the time can train a dog himself. The training resources available today are incredible. That dog will not be polished enough to win titles, but then that owner is not interested in titles. The end results can be immensely satisfying for both owner and dog.

Who the hell said anything about shooting dogs???!!!

[that a boy]

That's a pretty elitist statement to say that someone actually has "no right" to have a bird dog unless they pay for pedigree, titles and professional training. The cost of buying and owning a bird dog need be no more than the cost of buying and owning any other dog. A person who studies and puts in the time can train a dog himself. The training resources available today are incredible. That dog will not be polished enough to win titles, but then that owner is not interested in titles. The end results can be immensely satisfying for both owner and dog.

Who the hell said anything about shooting dogs???!!!

Reading the recent post,he didn't say "no right" he said no business.They are completely different.
I think if you cant afford $1000 for a pup you probably should not invest in a dog ,regardless of breed.Doesn't mean you need to spend a $1000 ,but you better have extra funds, trust me unless your brothers a Vet. they will be more than a $1000 in vet bills.
Regarding shooting a dog ,in the past when you were not able or want to pay for a high vet bill they shot the dog.
I think no business really means being responsible .

[terrym]

Hunting dogs quite often injure themselves. Dogs that run flat out at in nasty cover are more prone to injury. When your dog ends up at the vets to get sutured or worse have surgery the bills stack up real fast. I think that's what Vom was alluding to. Most of us train our dogs ourselves but factor in the cost of fuel to go buy birds and then travel somewhere to do a shooting scenario and cost of birds it gets real expensive.

[werner.reiche]

That's a pretty elitist statement to say that someone actually has "no right" to have a bird dog unless they pay for pedigree, titles and professional training. The cost of buying and owning a bird dog need be no more than the cost of buying and owning any other dog. A person who studies and puts in the time can train a dog himself. The training resources available today are incredible. That dog will not be polished enough to win titles, but then that owner is not interested in titles. The end results can be immensely satisfying for both owner and dog.

Who the hell said anything about shooting dogs???!!!

Good point. "The cost of buying and owning a bird dog need be no more than the cost of buying and owning any other dog."

I am an advocate of buying a "well bred" dog. Well bred beagles come cheap - a few hundred bucks. Well bred spaniels - that's another story.

Maybe you can luck out on a mixed breed - maybe not. The dog (not mine) I worked with this fall is a lab / walker cross. Great looking big black and tan dog. Loves hunting *everything*. Even tries to catch chickadees. But he runs silent. Not what you want in a deer hound - but he is what he is.

[ninepointer]

I think we're probably tilting at windmills here. The OP wrote:

"My buddy was talking to a guy out of Windsor who was selling GWP on Kijiji and asked them about there hunting experience, he said they hunted amazing, and as for versatile they hunted everything, ducks,pheasant,rabbit,grouse,woodcock,geese and hard too. Just a couple Euro guys with great dogs breeding them together, and they were reasonably priced too. No mark up price just because of a title. Now I'm am not promoting puppy mill backyard breeding by any means. Has anyone purchased a dog like this who surprisingly turned out to be an amazing hunter?"

Yes, you can get great, non-papered hunting dog for less money. But I would only buy such a dog with some knowledge of and confidence in the sire and dam. So, in the case of the scenario that the OP has described, unless there is more information I would not buy that dog. The guy is going in blind. There are lots of ads like that on Kijiji.

You can think of pedigree as some measure of "quality assurance", but nothing is guaranteed. I've been down both roads; pedigreed and non-pedigreed (from a trusted source) hunting dogs. You can probably guess which one has worked out better for me.

[Waftrudnir]

city folks like fashion and they don't mind to pay for it big $$$. they spend for a sweater made in China three digit $ if the right label is on it. so why wouldn't they spend $1200+ on a breeding accident as long as it lends itself to show anyone that they are "special". beside the sofa, that's the often the only job the dog has anyways.
but we are not completely immune to that, are we. a bit of pedigree can be something prestigious and is always nice to talk about. it's just a different scale as we will eventually face the reality of our dogs' abilities (or lack thereof) and it becomes hard to justify spending over $2000 on a complete failure (be it the dog or poor training).
as was stated already, vet bills can be huge (and if your dog is a family member and you have kids, you'll likely pay if chances are it saves the dog). I'm one of those who has been willing to pay serious vet bills, but I do have my limit when it comes to buying a pup. Pedigree may shift the odds, but in the end of the day, buying a pup is always a lottery game.

[Labber]

I like this post.
When I used to go to the casino occasionally, I only played Black Jack. Best odds in the house.
Same goes with pedigree. A field trial champion title on the puppies parents & grandparents is an indication of soundness in a number of important areas of concern when it comes to the long term commitment of owning a dog.
Hunt desire, health, brains, tractability, & structural soundness. All have been trained and tested to the limits before a title is won, in most cases. The same cannot be said for show dogs and hunting dogs, even if the parents are capable hunters.
Luck is something best hoped for at a casino.