Remington 597 22LR

[Noseyarentcha]

[QUOTE=seabast;1008412]

Sagin, you and I both took the, "new" gun course.

How do you feel about looking down the barrel?

Honestly, I think it is nuts and scary as hell.

How long have they been teaching newbies to look down the barrel?[/QUOTE]

I always look down the barrel before using any of my guns.

Unless you think a gun has the potencial to always be loaded why is there an issue with that?

If you can't tell if your gun is loaded or not, I think it's nuts and scary as hell!

I did not say that I am unable to determine if a gun is loaded or not, nor did I say that a gun has the potential to always be loaded.

I simply said that I think looking down the barrel is nuts and scary as hell!

I can see how easily it was to misread my words and make up scenerios from what you thought I said.

No worries

Everybody makes mistakes.

[GrouseWhisperer]

Not sure if this is the correct place for this kind of post, but here goes...

So I fired off my Remington 597 for the first time today at the shooting range, and it was also my first time ever shooting a gun. Wow. Damn I'm hooked.

I've heard that it is normal for shots/groupings to be all over the place when firing a new gun, and I'd like to confirm this as being the case. Toward the end of my practice, I was shooting straight on at a target 25 yards away and hitting where I was aiming directly at. However, earlier on it wasn't doing that at all - it was shooting a good couple inches higher than where I was aiming at. I fired off 200 rounds, and towards the end, after 160 or so, it was more or less dead on.

Would such a discrepancy be normal?

I figured that adjusting my iron sights would not be prudent at this time as I suppose the barrel needed to be "primed" or "broken in". I will clean it and see what happens at the range again.

Hey Sagin~congrats on getting into the shooting sports, and, on getting your first rifle in the caliber I love most~.22LR! I won't touch on the "looking down the barrel" topic as others have addressed their concerns about that, however, I would like to chime-in on the rest! I suspect the better results "toward the end" were the result of a combination of factors;


1. the barrel getting "fouled"~most 22LR shooters I know believe their barrels shoot best once they've had a certain amount of lead through it
2. 22s, especially autoloaders in my experience, start to "settle-in" (=break-in) with time. I've met plenty of rimfire guys who swear it takes 500+ rounds for their guns to start shooting at their best
3. comfort level~the more any of us shoot, the better we're likely to get
4. better trigger control with practice/more familiarity with using the sights, etc.


There are other, more subtle factors like breathing...the amount of caffeine in your system (it messes with me), wind if you're outdoors, distance, how you're holding the rifle, whether or not your barrel is free-floated (touching the stock where it shouldn't) etc. I wouldn't say using a 22 semi @ 25 yards with open sights...those will be as big an issue vs. using a bolt gun with a good scope at 2-3x+ that distance. I would like to add a few other thoughts based on my experience. Since I'm in a list-writing frame of mind, I'll do it that way.


1. when you see copper-colored bullets, chances are they're copper-washed, NOT "FMJ"/plated. It's applied to provide some lubrication (as I understand it) and to many, is the cleanest-running ammo to run through semis. The alternative is usually bullets with a fine, wax coating and yes...that can gum things up over time. Personally, I shoot what the gun likes the most..and clean as required.
2. NO 2 AMMO TYPES shoot the same from a given rifle, period. Your gun will likely shoot some very well, some terribly. If you're lucky, it'll shoot 1 or 2 types exceptionally well. There is one, and only one way to find out~buy a box of 50 of every type you can get your hands on and test them out. The MOST reliable way to get the best results is with a scoped gun, shot from a solid rest.
3. scopes~15+ years back, you'd have had a hard time convincing me that any scope needs to cost more than $100. Today? The scope I just put on my .223 is worth more than 2x what the rifle is. I'm not suggesting you do that, however, there is merit in using a decent scope...and more importantly..one meant for rimfires. NOT ALL SCOPES are well-suited for rimfires, in spite of what many gun-counter guys will tell you. If shooting 25 yards or less is on your to-do list, you want a scope with an adjustable objective. That doesn't mean it needs to be a big $ scope either.
4. autoloaders/accuracy~597s have a pretty good reputation for accuracy once you find the ammo it likes most. Like almost all semis made today (including Mossberg 702s, Ruger 10/22s, Marlin 60/795, etc.) the triggers are a bit on the heavy side. Ultimately, this will impact the accuracy once you stretch-out the distance a little. If it's your first time shooting..you won't have any frame of reference but if you get the chance at the range, try shooting a bolt-action rifle. Out of the gate, most factory bolt guns have better triggers than semis and some have absolutely great ones. For really accurate shooting, triggers matter. I've used spring kits from MCARBO in my Marlins, and they make a kit for the 597 if you feel like upgrading down the road; http://www.mcarbo.com/store/p/28-Rem...pring-Kit.aspx


I'm a bolt-gun guy through and through, and have owned (over the years) almost every action there is save for falling block. For me, bolt guns offer the most accuracy, best trigger, are easiest to clean, etc. but I still keep a nicely-tuned Marlin 795 for times when I want the brass to fly. I think you made a good choice with the 597, but when $ allows...get a decent AO scope on there. You'll be glad you did. After that, a wide variety of ammo to test out, and a solid rest to do it from. I have have a snazzy set of shooting bags from the US, but 10lb. bag of rice would be nearly as effective as what I use for a front rest! Keep shooting no matter what, even if a better scope/ammo/rest is down the road a little. PM me if you'd like a few suggestions on a scope, and don't rule-out used.


There is probably more I could ramble-on about, but that's it for now.

[SaginMerusan]

[QUOTE=Noseyarentcha;1009078]

I can see how easily it was to misread my words and make up scenerios from what you thought I said.
No worries
Everybody makes mistakes.

Now, now... Don't be fouling up my perception of my perfection. Not only that, but I dare you to say "perception of my perfection" really fast 20 times.

Hey Sagin~congrats on getting into the shooting sports, and, on getting your first rifle in the caliber I love most~.22LR!

Thanks!

2. 22s, especially autoloaders in my experience, start to "settle-in" (=break-in) with time. I've met plenty of rimfire guys who swear it takes 500+ rounds for their guns to start shooting at their best

Definitely by now I have surpassed the 500 round mark... and loving it.

Thanks for your advice! Also, the FMJ vs coated - thank you for that tidbit. Also, the ammo thing. I initially tried out CCI and then bought a bucket of Remington. Wow, Remington is filthy, filthy, filthy compared to CCI! Well, I'm stuck with it, and it is teaching me to clean much better, so there's an upside. But I'm not buying Remington 22 ammo again.

I bookmarked that trigger mod for a future buy. I almost did the Ruger 10/22 as it was a close choice for me between that and the 597. I have to admit that I am a cheapie and the price point mattered.

I will buy a bolt action rifle one day in a higher calibre. My gun course teacher had a disabled .303 British - don't know what model - and it just felt right in my hands. So I was hooked from there. The reason why I got a semi in the 22 was for teaching myself to aim over having to continually reload all the time. There will be plenty of time to get used to the bolt action on whatever rifle I buy down the road. What can I say? I just love shootin'.

PM me if you'd like a few suggestions on a scope, and don't rule-out used.

Yes, sir. Will do.

It is this kind of advice and telling of personal experience that is a gold mine. That's primarily what I came here for. So, from the bottom of my heart, GrouseWhisperer, a solid thank you!

[Useless]

For shooting don't worry about where you are hitting relative to where you are aiming. Work on your grouping. Shoot 10 shot groups and try to get them all touching. Once you have the grouping down then worry about where you are hitting on the target. Shooting is all about consistency. Accuracy vs precision. I always work on precision first.

[rf2]

For shooting don't worry about where you are hitting relative to where you are aiming. Work on your grouping. Shoot 10 shot groups and try to get them all touching. Once you have the grouping down then worry about where you are hitting on the target. Shooting is all about consistency. Accuracy vs precision. I always work on accuracy first.

Based on the advice you provided in your post, you suggest working on precision first, then accuracy.

[Useless]

Based on the advice you provided in your post, you suggest working on precision first, then accuracy.

Oops. Fixed. Thanks!

[Bluebulldog]

[QUOTE=Noseyarentcha;1009078]

I did not say that I am unable to determine if a gun is loaded or not, nor did I say that a gun has the potential to always be loaded.

I simply said that I think looking down the barrel is nuts and scary as hell!

Try growing up in a firearms safe family environment, and then joining the army where you're now pointing a rifle ( unloaded) at other members as part of your training.....

[Bluebulldog]

To the OP.

Lots of good advice.

1. Semi's are often fickle beasts, particularly since .22 semis are recoil operated, and not gas. Using some ammunition will cycle well at first, and some won't cycle at all ( like most target grade, subsonic).

2. High velocity ammo will cycle just fine, however high velocity .22 ammo can often produce flyers and inconsistencies based on ammo type, and barrel heat. Find a decent ammo like CCI, and get some practicing in, leaving time in between shots to keep temp of the barrel somewhat consistent.

3. Plated or washed ammo vs. regular lead, shouldn't matter much, unless the chamber opening is fairly tight for tolerance. This may just be a matter of break in, much like the bolt return spring.

4. Shoot often, shoot lots. Start on a bench with a lead sled or rest, to make sure the rifle is doing its job. Then start shooting from different positions to develop muscle memory, so you can do yours.

[SaginMerusan]

Thanks to everyone who has given me advice. It is very much appreciated and I will take it all into heart.