Running Coyotes and Trespassing

[DGearyFTE]

Constitutional property rights and protection of property,under the law,are deemed two separate and distinct issues. While it may be illegal to shoot at simple trespassers in "protection of property",it's certainly not illegal to shoot at dogs when trespasser's animals are causing damage or presenting safety issues towards people and livestock.

The trouble is, that if a farmer was to shoot a dog legally he is likely going to end up in court. He may well be found not guilty, but not before he has been punished financially by the system.

[trimmer21]

The trouble is, that if a farmer was to shoot a dog legally he is likely going to end up in court. He may well be found not guilty, but not before he has been punished financially by the system.

I suppose anything could happen,but,in all the years I dealt with trespassing hunters and farmers shooting dogs that were harassing livestock,I didn't see one charge laid against the farmer,ever,but,I sure wrote a pile against trespassers. A dog owner may be able to sue in Small Claims Court for the value of the dog,but,that's really a stretch,pain and suffering will never happen (unless they go to Judge Judy) LOL

[jaycee]

Constitutional property rights and protection of property,under the law,are deemed two separate and distinct issues. While it may be illegal to shoot at simple trespassers in "protection of property",it's certainly not illegal to shoot at dogs when trespasser's animals are causing damage or presenting safety issues towards people and livestock.

Tell me how a dog or dogs, are causing damage or presenting safety issues when they are on the trail/scent of a coyote., they only have one thing on their minds and that is catching up with the coyote.
A number of years ago around our way , a farmer was charged and convicted and fined heavily for shooting two hounds that were running coyotes across his property .
He did this while he was sitting in his tree stand Bow hunting deer, he also had his shotgun handy as he admitted that there was a possibility that the hounds would be around , as he had heard and seen them before, and didn't know who they belonged to.

A farmer has to have absolute proof that dogs are damaging his property or livestock, the MNRF or a Bylaw Enforcement Officer who is familiar with this type of incident is usually called out to investigate and submit their findings to the Township or the Police before charges can be laid.

[MikePal]

Had 5 different locals stop me and tell me they have had coyote problems and want us to run their land. One lady owns a 300 acre horse farm and was so glad we are out coyote hunting, told me to go on her land anytime.

That's what it's like here too, no one complains and most are grateful for the help in keeping the yote population down. Even if they themselves don't fully agree, they know from their friends with livestock (horses) that it's a necessary evil.

I suppose anything could happen,but,in all the years I dealt with trespassing hunters and farmers shooting dogs that were harassing livestock,I didn't see one charge laid against the farmer,ever,but,I sure wrote a pile against trespassers.

A fella at the hunt camp told us this story, he runs the hounds for deer season (also yote in the winter). One idiot called the CO on him after the dog chased a deer across his property while he was hunting ...ruined his hunt he was quoted as telling the CO....go figure.

Anyway, the CO was trying to come up with something but couldn't lay a charge, the dogs were licensed and had GPS collar tracking collars on and they had mapping s/w. So they were able to convince the CO that the dogs were under control. Worked.

[krakadawn]

I suppose anything could happen,but,in all the years I dealt with trespassing hunters and farmers shooting dogs that were harassing livestock,I didn't see one charge laid against the farmer,ever,but,I sure wrote a pile against trespassers. A dog owner may be able to sue in Small Claims Court for the value of the dog,but,that's really a stretch,pain and suffering will never happen (unless they go to Judge Judy) LOL

Just so we're clear my comments are not to support individuals being careless with their dogs nor hunting without permission.

There are numerous judgements rendered to cover the cost of dogs shot without due cause. You can research these, several come to mind....Bancroft where a farmer shot 2 hounds he claimed were running deer out of season. He was charged and costs plus an ascertained value of $1700 per hound levied.
You may wish to read the ACT and read carefully. The responsibility is clearly on the individual to prove livestock was in need of protection. Shooting a dog just crossing your property will cause you grief. You may tell us that it was most often 'the hunter' who was charged but there are numerous convictions on file for illegally shooting a dog. What costs are retrieved depends on the owner and how much they wish to pursue this. Many dogs are currently running with expensive collars thereby adding to the value at stake here.

Too bad this kind of situation was the exception and hopefully most coyote hunters have secured the required permission and all is well.
If you are unable to prove your livestock or your person was in immediate danger you're likely going to lose this argument. Kind of like shooting and intruder walking down your driveway after he broke into your house. We all know why you would like to but in a situation like this your claim of personal protection is a lost cause.

[Gregoire1960]

Trimmer21 I would like to see one of you big talkers shoot one of my hounds. You realize its a big deal if you shoot someones dog you will have so many charges laid on you. And when I'm done talking you to court you will be living in a cardboard box. All you guys talk a big game when it comes to shooting someones hound but you would never do it. its easy to hide behind a computer and talk tough. lol

Says the guy threatening legal action over things that haven't happened & uses the handle "body count"..........

[JBen]

I can break the law ( dog owner who lets his dog run) but if you dare break the law ( landowner that shoots a dog) your the problem.....and I will see you in court. And beat you up?


lol

And People wonder why landowners who arent against hunting are closing doors.
We humans, so strange at times.

Bottom line imo.
If some landowner ever shoots someone's dog ( your dog).
Man up, "no ones fault" but your own...take responsibility for your decision and actions...

I might get really upset, know I would. But blame the landowner? Seriously?And worse sue them for my decision, my mistake, the risk I took?

what a world we live in

[greatwhite]

So if I understand this correctly if you have a hunting dog that trespasses you can trespass with it no permission needed for hunting.

[smitty55]

All this talk about prosecuting a land owner for shooting trespassing dogs brings up another question for me. First off, you would have to prove he was actually the person who shot it in the first place. It's not like he's about to come out and admit it or allow anyone to come on his property to confirm that either. Even if the dog has a radio collar anyone with half a brain would be sure to remove it and either take the battery out or destroy it so there is no signal to follow. Pretty hard to charge someone without enough evidence.
One more thing. I may be wrong but in the past at least I thought it was legal to shoot dogs running deer on your property. So all a landowner would have to say is that the dog was running deer.

Cheers

[krakadawn]

Sorry Smitty you are wrong...that's up to a CO. Never has been legal.

JB two wrongs never made a right, you've always pointed that out before

No ones trying to point a finger at the farmer but laws are quite clear about this. Go after the owner of the dog...legally.

GW, you're a lot brighter than to make the analogy of trespass by the hunter is ok cause his dog did....we all know that doesn't wash.