ON Issue #21 - Businesses not coming to or leaving Ontario

[JBen]

G, if looking at the US, you can only compare and contrast places within the US as BBD has done. While it's true many of the "best places to live" or "where are the happiest people" studies pretty much always list Canada ahead of the US. The reasons and factors for that are many.

I for one, won't argue that healthcare/education is one contributing factor. I wonder how the US would fare on those indexes if just 50% of the military budget, went instead to one, or the other or both. So no additional tax revenue, just changing where its spent. Then we also have population densities. As bad as its getting here in Southern Ontario........lol...you think that might change the Index?

Re Wages and taxation.
Very few financial planners, economist etc, won't agree it's both. And its widely known that wages have been stagnant for decades.
The answer is no-where as simple as forcing companies to pay more ( Unions), or getting them to (everyone else). As we can see here in Ontario for the past 8-9 years, when cost get to be too much..........

Taxation however is entirely different beast. There waste, theres vote buying ( um the GTA anyone), there's overhead. Similar to people forcing their companies to pay them more.....Um, when was the last time the electorate was successful at forcing any government to reduce taxes......A Union forcing a government to pay more whether it's warranted.......or not.....or even "affordable"?
All the time.

Unions are dinosaurs that need to go the way of the carrier pigeon.
No doubt that will lead to some abuses, set backs in safety etc...And so I see some use for them still, their mandate should be about nothing other than workplace conditions and related etc.

This isn't the dark ages anymore, and as with TD on the weekend..................

Its stagnant wages AND...taxation......
here in Canada, that is driving the working class to its knees ( look outside the GTA) and putting a big gap between the MC and upper MC. The rich are still the rich and the poor are still the poor. and those people you say Unions do so much for? uh-uh, quite the opposite, they are the ones paying the prices.

This is just one that looked at the period 1995 onwards...Google it ( SW&Tx) and you will find hundreds of studies and it goes back to when?

PET and when Unions were having their time in the sun ( the 60s and 70s).
http://www.macleans.ca/economy/econo...s-is-doing-so/

[73hunter]

The Libertarian Plan for business

## DRAFT - UNDER DEVELOPMENT ##

Ontario has everything going for it - abundant natural resources, well educated people, proximity to the largest economy in the world. Yet in spite of these natural advantages, people and companies are fleeing the province for other jurisdictions. The only thing that needs to be changed for Ontario to the most attractive place to work and operate a business is Government policy.

Our theme for our Jobs and the Economy platform is "Make Ontario a Job Magnet".

At present, Government intervention in the economy has passed the tipping point. Ontario is no longer an attractive place for people to work and businesses to locate. In all parts of the province, businesses are closing and people are out of work and facing limited opportunities. Government is the problem. A change from the status quo is needed.

The Ontario Libertarian Party will make Ontario a job magnet!
Here's how:
•we will put in place a sensible electricty policy, our theme for Hydro Rates is "Cut your hydro bill in half".
•we will put in place a sensible Government and Taxation plan, including balance the provincial budget
•we will repeal the job-killing Cap & Trade Carbon Tax
•we will end any Government program and service related to mitigating climate change
•we will end Corporate taxation, of course Corporations will still pay HST
•we end all grants and loans to Corporations and other entities
•we will end mandatory insurance with WSIB
•we will end mandatory registration with the College of Trades

That is how we will make Ontario a job magnet!

I have some strong conservative beliefs but I say No Thanks to the Libertarian platform if this is it.
"Cut my hydro bill in half"! So my kids can pay for it six times over ?
Passing things on to the next generation needs to stop. Balanced budgets should be a requirement, or at least a limit of how many years in a row it can go on.

[mosquito]

There are too many issues with the Libertarian "ideas" for me to vote for them.

But back to more of the usual.



Ontario manufacturers eye greener pastures stateside as hydro rates go through the roof
http://business.financialpost.com/ne...rough-the-roof
Other businesses are making similar calculations. City of Toronto statistics show the city has lost 20 per cent of its manufacturing jobs in the past decade.

[JBen]

Same could be said with any party really. I was a pretty big fan of Harpers, but really only his economic policies ( and foreign policy to a degree). But there was a lot, not to like about him as well. Same could definitely be said of Hudak, but people let that get in the way of doing the right thing, morals and more. And as a result huge prices are being paid by one heck of a lot of people ( mainly those outside the GTA and to a lesser extent Public Service, where job security and futures are anything but guaranteed).

There are parts of their platform I like, some I don't. I have actually considered joining, and possibly throwing my name in the hat as well. I'm not one that waste my energy on dead ends though. Even if I were to win a seat...How effective has Elizabeth may and the green party been????????? No offence Line-oh, I still applaud your decision.


Problem I have, is even if I fully subscribed if I don't think the province or country is heading in the right direction and really want Wynne, or JT out....A vote for them, could mean 4 more years of....Gerald Butts or Ontario in the toilet.

We so desperately need electoral reform here, to proportional, it's not funny. Would certainly solve all of Ontario's problems in an instant. Instantly solve the lock on QP Liberals have. Union support and vote buying for the GTA would be a thing of the past really. Would mean the North no matter who they vote for ( historically the NDP because just as the Liberals have ignored everyone else making sure PS and the GTA are happy, the North feels the same about both the Cons and Liberals). Well they would have about 20-30% of the seats in the house and those seats would count...Right now and for the past 50 years, the NDP have just been good for sound bytes in the evening news...

Federally, it's the same, just that the scales are much larger, so the weight that "key ridings", or "swing ridings" have is greatly watered down. In essence, provincially the GTA and Unions having been bought own Queens Park. But federally it's not enough for the Liberals to buy the GTA or Unions...Likewise it's not enough for the Cons to buy Oil and ALTA...

With first past, what matters is the ridings. Win the riding, win the most ridings. Mathematically it is entirely possible come next year, Brown could win the majority of the vote, by a wide margin. And still Ms Wynne could win...Thanks again to the 416, 905 and Unions...Have we all noticed how she's taking care of teachers right now, so theres no "arguments" next year.....500million for them last year to. But rural Ontario?


Change it proportional and if the Libertarians win 5% or 10% of the vote, they will have 5% or 10% of the seats and then.............the voices count.....

[JBen]

Not a big fan of the Sun, but every now and then they simply call spades, spades.
For the last month or two polls have consistently shown essentially the same things. Despite abysmal personal approval ratings (14%), the 416 is still going to vote for her. Of the 22 seats in the 416, 19 of them despite oh so much are still a lock. She's lost a lot of support in the 905 but thats kind of fair weather, here today, gone tomorrow, maybe back by next year.

Not sure how some can sleep at night, oh sure life if your in the GTA while it might be getting a little worse, the devastation and utter ignoring of everything outside the gta and those that get taken of, is just, like the RE market.
/nuts

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/03/17...n-toronto-poll

[mosquito]

There are parts of their platform I like, some I don't. I have actually considered joining, and possibly throwing my name in the hat as well. I'm not one that waste my energy on dead ends though. Even if I were to win a seat...How effective has Elizabeth may and the green party been????????? No offence Line-oh, I still applaud your decision.


Problem I have, is even if I fully subscribed if I don't think the province or country is heading in the right direction and really want Wynne, or JT out....A vote for them, could mean 4 more years of....Gerald Butts or Ontario in the toilet.

The best way the Libertarian party could have an influence right now in reality is to throw their weight behind the good Conservative candidates running. Let them go all out in by-elections where vote splitting on the right won't end up with an Alberta like decision * with the Liberals or NDP (given W.'s popularity) in power. A vote for them in a main election is just a wasted vote and hope for the left.

* 700,000+ for Wildrose and Conservatives, about 600,000 for NDP.


As for vote representational I think we will just end up seeing Liberal/NDP coalitions that will gut and ruin Canada, we will never see a Conservative majority until so much damage is done that even Union reps are calling for good government. Quebec, Toronto and BC would skew things even more I think, the rest of Canada wouldn't even count when you look at the totals, that and WHO actually sits, some party picked suckup or the locally picked representative. Unlike the Liberals ** in most cases the Conservatives do atleast allow some local selection of candidates.


** Liberal blackballing of Pro-life candidates, post dating registrations ....
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...-open-nor-fair
She said more than 2,000 people she has registered as Liberals are considered ineligible because the party retroactively set the registration cut-off date for Feb. 14 — the day before she started entering names into the system.

Ng’s campaign has said it learned of the deadline on Feb. 20, the same as everyone else, and also lost out on registering hundreds of supporters.



Until business see a benefit and stability they will look elsewhere (if they are as smart as I think most are) and we won't see that with carbon taxes, hidden taxes, electricity rates increasing ......

as per article.
http://business.financialpost.com/ne...rough-the-roof
"Ontario today has some of the highest and that has many industrial companies planning to move at least some operations to the United States."

[JBen]

Agreed, but the alternative in the immediate future is worse. Just look at what has and is occurring in Ontario.
Its made a joke of democracy, and the prices being paid by those seats don't matter.............

[skypilot]

Chinese proverb...an unhooked fish has trouble understanding one that is.

Many PS workers and retirees have theirs and couldn't care less about anyone else that happens to be struggling(unless of course they are outside Canada) or are simply oblivious to the real world.

No way they would ever vote for anyone outside of the cookie cutter liberal socialist.

[sawbill]

That's not exactly correct.
I'm PS and retired yet I still have taxes to pay, face abysmal heating, hydro costs and excessive gasoline costs in northern Ontario. I have 2 kids and I care about their future and would never in my wildest dreams vote Liberal or NDP. Most of the guys I worked with are in the same boat.
A big part of the problem is that younger couples are far more concerned with meeting monthly payments and raising their families and don't have the time or interest in following politics. Only after I got older did I realize how important it was to stay tuned to the issues.

[JBen]

A big part of the problem is that younger couples are far more concerned with meeting monthly payments and raising their families and don't have the time or interest in following politics. Only after I got older did I realize how important it was to stay tuned to the issues.

Which really describes the GTA, except for them they don't see what is occurring everywhere else. Self centred or self absorbed, and thus the Liberals go out f their way to keep them happy. The problem with PS, is the Unions, and while it's similar, it's not quite as pronounced.

I know a lot of Nurses, teachers, cops and FF, personally. Friends and family, of them I would say there only 2 that follow the Union drum religiously. My one Aunt slams the Liberals far more than I do. Mind you she lives in rural Ontario. Another friend is actually pretty high up in OPSEU. She to, blast the Liberals and has for years. Where "we" differ politically is she marches to the union drum blindly s many others do, and is dyed in wool NDP. To her, Smokey is god, solidarity is everything......who cares what it does or means to "everyone" else..

OPSEU
Not all Public Servants make seriously good money (relative to the tax payer, which determines affordability) on top of benefits that compared to the tax base are just unrealistic. Like any corporation theres the swinging dinks, managers and district supervisors, stars and pets and somewhere down the food chain, the peons, or as we referred to them at work. Monkeys on the treadmill. Nurses for example don't make unreasonable salaries on top of everything else. Not compared to working stiffs of the world, aka the tax base, and thus "affordability". Do public servants in Mexico make 100,000/year with gold plated benefits? Obviously not. Why not? Screw mexico, do those in say NFLD.......No? Why not?

And I dare say, given the tens of thousands of them being let go, everywhere outside the GTA......Id be surprised if many vote for Wynne.............

As for politics I was in my early 30s when I started following closely. But that, was likely due more to my job where economic and political news was force fed to us. And so at a young age, I saw how closely just everything is intertwined. Many believe politics don't matter, they don't "really" affect our everyday lives. If theres any silver lining in the devastation throughout Ontario outside the 905, maybe hopefully

It's a wake up call,
and many people now see just how much it does matter. Even the RE situation throughout now, most of South Central Ontario is in part or large part, due to political decisions made years ago, and currently.

It's a shame it's had to come to this, for the GTA to see they aren't the only people in province. But just with the cancellation of the Spring Bear Hunt. Most people ( meaning hunters and anyone that lived North of say Barrie) knew, nothing would change until bears became problems in cottage country, some started showing up in Oakville, Pickering, lots in Uxbridge etc.

Nimbyism.