1 Child or Youth suffers gunshot injury each day in Ontario

[JBen]

Perspective.
12.4 per capita means 0.000012% per 100,000 of the male youth population is injured by some kind of firearm. Read something today those numbers included both air guns and paint ball. Something these Drs are lacking given a few comments by them.

Can anyone imagine a mechanic saying...your cars making a funny noise, we are going to do some targetted preventive measure, replace the transmission....

Badern.
If I listed the mile long list of injuries my daughter incurred from gymnastics, From fracture and concussions to spinal. This Dr would have apoplectic fits and be screaming for immediate, targetted preventive measures rather than what all those quoted should have said. Our findings are inconclusive and we feel warrant further research.....Done. Instead they said some other things and yes Terry. FtM, I would think/suspect

An uncle in law works at St Mikes. He has made quite the living reasearching somethings, travelling the world to this and that conference etc......

Slippery slope Mike.
Playing hockey, being a gymnast is a voluntary action. Being cross checked into the boards. Not so much.

I did a lot of stupid things when I was immortal, some I wont repeat. But played chicken with trains, chicken with knives (one friend is still missing a chunk of his calf), tried making things that good boom with different gasses and shot gun shells.....More

My 12 year old cousin, son of an OPP detective ate a .22 or it might have been a .38 in the arm, many many years ago. The family was never quite sure about the calibre, because it was sort of a taboo subject, which in my family of cops and fire fighters was...well nothing was taboo.

His story?
They (he and a couple friends) had thrown some shells in a fire.

Voluntary?
Accident?
Boys being boys?
Who knows.

For many years I wondered about the story and what they would have told the Docs in the ER.

[terrym]

I'm betting that when the dust clears and all the work is done, we'll have found that these accidental injury numbers come from people doing stupid things.

I agree. In fact if one follows the safe storage laws already in place and follows the safe gun handling taught in PAL courses then every shooting is either intended which is a crime or negligence. Now, what are the odds that Trudough's hand picked antigun members of his gun advisory panel won't use this spin as a tool to remove more guns from those who aren't the problem?

[welsh]

Perspective.
12.4 per capita means 0.000012% per 100,000 of the male youth population is injured by some kind of firearm.

The rate is 12.4 per 100,000, or 0.0124 percent of the population. (See p. 455.)

[bardern]

But kids being unintentionally 'shot' is not a voluntary activity...

the study doesn't break down what "firearm" they were shot with. Turns out the researchers didn't use the same distinction of firearm as the government. by lumping paint ball guns et la in with legit firearms the study has invalidated itself.

[MikePal]

by lumping paint ball guns et la in with legit firearms the study has invalidated itself.

I don't think you've read the link in Welsh's post #69...

[JBen]

I don't think you've read the link in Welsh's post #69...

I did and while I agree with some, some things jumped out, fast and quick.
The interview basically read as a "don't be angry, the study had nothing to do with the new committee, even though we intentionally timed the release, we know we didn't dig deep enough ( as Ive been saying), we know we don't have the data we actually need, everyone else is blowing it out of context" damage control spin...

Oh and Mike, if you read the interview and Im sure you did. Notice that she admits and is hopeful....this unfunded study.......leads to more
wink wink.

My study just looks at sheer numbers, it doesn’t talk about causation, it doesn’t talk about prevention strategies. It just says, “Hey, here are the groups we need to look at for prevention strategies. These are the injuries that are occurring, and we need to really contextualize them and understand them.”

Cant suck and blow at the same time. Which is it

The numbers are really high, so it’s definitely a problem that we have to take seriously,” said Astrid Gutmann, one of the study’s authors

On Monday, the Canadian Paediatric Society also issued a new statement urging doctors to warn families against keeping firearms in homes where children live as a way of preventing injury and death.

We definitely have a problem,” she said. “These are preventable injuries.”

Perhaps but they don't even make the list of what does send kids to the ERs.....Not sure how a person can make that bold a statement when....and sorry 12.4 per 100,000 (do the math) while it certainly bears looking at ( I know how stupid I was as a teen)......thats not a problem, its not some epidemic.

Dr. Natasha Saunders, the study’s lead author and a paediatrician and associate scientist at the Hospital for Sick Children, said the findings are astonishing.

Seriously, both Welsh and I were quick to put 2 and 2 together and point out all they are really doing is stating the obvious.

“A child or youth injured by a gun each day in this province is staggering,” Saunders said

Gee sensationalist much Ms co Author..........

“The majority of these injuries are unintentional and are entirely preventable, making this an important public health problem that needs to be addressed with targeted prevention programs,” Gutmann said.

no other commercial product

Now to be fair, in the articles that the media in turn sensationalized they (the authors) said others things, things we shouldn't be concerned about and were more than fair. Im not quoting them in the interest of fairness, simply because its to save space. So instead just saying "to be fair" and balanced they do say other things...

But it they can't make up their minds ( see their quotes, the interview), if they depending on who they are talking to can't keep their recommendations straight, if they (the authors) talk out of one side of their mouth and admit that really, what they have are pink flags that warrant further deeper studies, acknowledge the data was lacking, acknowledge this and that.

Then out of the other side of their mouths...call for immediate targeted preventative measures etc. I get it, by hyping it, sensationalizing it themselves.....maybe theres grant money down the road for....um........more studies.

Bottom line depending on who they talking to they are "sucking and blowing"

"dirty bath water"

[JBen]

Oh and for the record.
I'm perfectly fine with them getting some grant money, to do what at this point should be done. In no way shape or form though does it mean they, or we ( the populace) or them ( the friendly regime that will decide to open the purse strings or not) should be diving off the deep end.......calling for immediate targeted measures, calling the finding astonishing etc, etc, etc, etc...

"We think we have something here worth looking into further" Done!
But that might not win grant money either

[JBen]

Sometimes context and perspective are oh so critical. Something these authors are lacking ( though if they are really just gunning for grant money, which I suspect I get it. And as stated I think theres enough there ) but especially the "pro GC crowd".

I can't be bothered to go dig up all the necessary stats. So am going to paraphrase, etc. Hope attitude is granted ( /wink).

We all know, that young guys do stupid things, all of us can likely think back to our own full of testerone, full of life and empty on grey matter teen and early 20 years. Did I fool around with guns? yes I did. Have I shot a friend with a BB gun? yes I did. Did I do far more than that, risking my life? yes I did. Did my friends? yes they did, and some died for it.

Does it mean much? Not in my mind, boys will be boys and there is no way we can stop that. We and this "Dr" who should be smarter should know that. Might as well tell parents that if you have young kids, you shouldn't have alcohol in the house and car keys should be locked up as soon as you return home.

Not long ago, everyone here had thoughts and comments about the case where a couple young guys, stole a car from some car shops yard, then went on to kill someone, or a couple people ( I forget details). The shop owner is being sued by the boys mother (who supplied the boys with alcohol) for leaving the keys in the car, in his shop yard........

How many young men hop in cars and go tearing down the roads doing 140km, 160km alcohol involved or not.....
What about the rich 30 something guy who after drinking all night in Miami, flew home, hopped in his Ferrari, and then killed 4 or 5 people.....

There are reasons why car insurance is so high for young male drivers.
If these authors want to be apologetic about youth being sent to ERs..........every single day.

Twice as many men have died as women, and young men accounted for the highest rate of road deaths, despite years of warnings and prevention campaigns. Almost 700 people were killed in collisions between transport trucks and other vehicles, and almost 86% of those dead were in the other vehicles.

And that/this is just funerals, not the broken bodies, broken lives that survive. Every single day.
http://www.lfpress.com/2015/03/23/on...ths-since-2005

10 years, 1 death a day.

please, "get a grip".

And what happens when a guy hops in a car and gos for a joy ride and wrecks other peoples lives, most certainly aren't voluntary participants.............What happens when some 20 year old steals someones car, or lifts moms car keys out of her purse at 2am and then wrecks 4-8 other peoples lives. How do we react, what do we do?


While I have nothing against GC, it works and if an actual, quantifiable, weakness can be identified. I'll listen.

but please, the left and pro crowd.
"get a grip"

The suicide rate for men in Canada.
22 per 100,000
Gun deaths 2.6 per 100,000

and on
and on
and on

[bardern]

I don't think you've read the link in Welsh's post #69...

Brian Lilly spoke with the authors and they as much said that they have no idea on the percentage of actual firearm related injuries. Sorry I cant get the link to open

[welsh]

Brian Lilly spoke with the authors and they as much said that they have no idea on the percentage of actual firearm related injuries. Sorry I cant get the link to open

One of the things they discuss in that link is that this study is preliminary, and they are planning follow-on studies to understand what kinds of firearms are involved, what types of injuries, and so on.