some people need to read regulations

[trimmer21]

The last Moose we shot ran for a half hour and dropped 50M from the west boundary of Algonquin PP ,twenty minutes before last light. We hauled it out at night cutting a trail the entire way getting it back to camp at midnight without a CO or OPP Constable in sight. Just the luck of the draw.

[Gilroy]

The last Moose we shot ran for a half hour and dropped 50M from the west boundary of Algonquin PP ,twenty minutes before last light. We hauled it out at night cutting a trail the entire way getting it back to camp at midnight without a CO or OPP Constable in sight. Just the luck of the draw.

You were not breaking any laws why would you be concerned that a CO or OPP were in sight.

[buckluck_9pt]

okay, so as mentioned earlier I emailed our local CO to see what clarity he could provide in terms of what can and can't be done to an animal before tagging ( someone mentioned you may be able to gut or take photos, etc).. also asked the term of "immediate".. this is what I got from him this morning...

Mr. Dezan,



Thanks for submitting your question, it’s encouraging that you are making the effort to determine correct information in order to remain compliant with legislation.



To answer your question upfront yes the first thing that the holder of the licence/game seal is required to do is attach the seal to the carcass. This is the same requirement whether a hunter is hunting under the authority of their own licence/game seal or party hunting. Legally this must be done at the kill site, prior to anything else, including field dressing, photos etc. See the following excerpt from the hunting regulations (Ontario Regulation 665/98 made pursuant to the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997)

22.1 If a member of a party kills a species of big game under the authority of a licence that is held by another member of the party, the holder of the licence shall,

(a) immediately after the kill and at the site of the kill attach the seal provided with the licence or licence tag to the wildlife in the manner indicated on the seal; and

(b) keep the seal attached to the wildlife while it is being transported. O. Reg. 32/04, s. 4; O. Reg. 54/10, s. 7.



The legislation does not specifically define the word “immediately.” Therefore the other areas we look to for a definition is the common English language definition and/or relevant Case Law. In this case the common definition is used and is as follows;



“immediate” = Occurring at once; happening without delay



If a hunter kills a species of big game and is field dressing the carcass without the game seal attached than a violation has been committed under section 22.1(a). If a hunter moves the carcass any distance without first attaching the game seal, two violations have potentially been committed.



As for wild turkey the requirements are the same as previously mentioned, see the following applicable legislation.

17. (1) The holder of a licence who has killed a moose, deer, elk, bear, wild turkey, wolf or coyote shall,

(a) immediately after the kill and at the site of the kill attach the seal provided with or purchased for the licence or licence tag to the game wildlife in the manner indicated in the instructions that accompany the seal; and

(b) keep the seal attached to the game wildlife while it is being transported and, in the case of wild turkey, keep the seal attached to the wild turkey until it is prepared for consumption.

I hope this response answers your questions, please feel free to contact me directly for any further discussion or clarification.



Regards,



Mark Curry

Conservation Officer

Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry

870 Richmond St. W.

Chatham ON N7M 5J5

Tel. (519) 354-8112

Fax. (519) 354-0313

[rick_iles]

Mark has not given you any information we didn't already know. Specifically, nothing in the regulations prevent the field dressing of the animal, while you wait for the tag, provided you don't move the animal from the kill site. If the shooter is the tag holder, then yes, you must affix the tag as soon as you get to the animal.
As I said before, there is no such offence of not tagging before gutting. Adhere to the "immediately" part, and there is no issue. The offence is failure to immediately affix the seal.....
17(1) (a) - O.Reg 665/98

Fail to immediately attach seal to moose

Set Fine: $200.00

Total Payable: $240.00

[COLOR=#000000]The holder of a licence who has killed a moose, deer, elk, bear, wild turkey, wolf or coyote shall,

(a) immediately after the kill and at the site of the kill attach the seal provided with or purchased for the licence or licence tag to the game wildlife in the manner indicated on the seal;

[trimmer21]

You were not breaking any laws why would you be concerned that a CO or OPP were in sight.

Not concerned in the least. I found it strange,though,that we garnered no attention,whatsoever. From some posts,you'd think there was a CO behind every tree just waiting for someone to screw up.LOL

[Gilroy]

Mark has not given you any information we didn't already know. Specifically, nothing in the regulations prevent the field dressing of the animal, while you wait for the tag, provided you don't move the animal from the kill site. If the shooter is the tag holder, then yes, you must affix the tag as soon as you get to the animal.
As I said before, there is no such offence of not tagging before gutting. Adhere to the "immediately" part, and there is no issue. The offence is failure to immediately affix the seal.....
17(1) (a) - O.Reg 665/98

Fail to immediately attach seal to moose

Set Fine: $200.00

Total Payable: $240.00

[COLOR=#000000]The holder of a licence who has killed a moose, deer, elk, bear, wild turkey, wolf or coyote shall,

(a) immediately after the kill and at the site of the kill attach the seal provided with or purchased for the licence or licence tag to the game wildlife in the manner indicated on the seal;

Well the actual answer by the CO gives me more concern because if seems counter intuitive, he says you should not gut the animal before tagging as you potentially commit an offence.If we go back to my original example of hunting with an older hunter and he takes 2 hours to get to you with the group tag that is 2 hours where you are maybe letting the meat spoil and your also accountable for that.

[jaycee]

Mark has not given you any information we didn't already know. Specifically, nothing in the regulations prevent the field dressing of the animal, while you wait for the tag, provided you don't move the animal from the kill site. If the shooter is the tag holder, then yes, you must affix the tag as soon as you get to the animal.
As I said before, there is no such offence of not tagging before gutting. Adhere to the "immediately" part, and there is no issue. The offence is failure to immediately affix the seal.....
17(1) (a) - O.Reg 665/98

Fail to immediately attach seal to moose

Set Fine: $200.00

Total Payable: $240.00

[COLOR=#000000]The holder of a licence who has killed a moose, deer, elk, bear, wild turkey, wolf or coyote shall,

(a) immediately after the kill and at the site of the kill attach the seal provided with or purchased for the licence or licence tag to the game wildlife in the manner indicated on the seal;

This is what was stated by Mark Curry, C,O. therefore a violation is committed if you are gutting before a tag is applied.
If a hunter kills a species of big game and is field dressing the carcass without the game seal attached than a violation has been committed under section 22.1

[rick_iles]

Well the actual answer by the CO gives me more concern because if seems counter intuitive, he says you should not gut the animal before tagging as you potentially commit an offence.If we go back to my original example of hunting with an older hunter and he takes 2 hours to get to you with the group tag that is 2 hours where you are maybe letting the meat spoil and your also accountable for that.

I agree fully. Any moose I have shot, not being the tag holder, has been gutted post haste. We have been visited by CO,s over the years during this process, with no concern. The only question was, where's the guy with the tag !!
I can see it, like I've said before, if the shooter is the tag holder. Even then, it's a pretty chincey pinch to charge someone because they hurried up and gutted the animal prior to tagging, if still at the kill site !

[rick_iles]

This is what was stated by Mark Curry, C,O. therefore a violation is committed if you are gutting before a tag is applied.
If a hunter kills a species of big game and is field dressing the carcass without the game seal attached than a violation has been committed under section 22.1

Ok, one more time.....there is no offence for gutting an animal before being tagged, unless the shooter holds the tag. If you are legally waiting for the tag to get to the kill site, there is nothing in legislation that prevents you from gutting the animal...
You can't physically tag it "immediately", because the tag isn't near the kill site. You must tag as soon as it arrives. There is absolutely no mention in the Act of gutting prior to tagging.

[JBen]

Letter of the law.

22.1 If a member of a party kills a species of big game under the authority of a licence that is held by another member of the party, the holder of the licence shall,

(a) immediately after the kill and at the site of the kill attach the seal provided with the licence or licence tag to the wildlife in the manner indicated on the seal; and
*********

From legalese to straight talk.
If a member of a party kills a big species under the authority of another members tag.

The tag holder without delay, shall place the seal on the animal at the kill site........

So long as the tag holder doesn't delay getting there and "immediately" places the tag once there, would appear to me that the letter of the law has been met. The letter of law doesn't say anything about what the guys there waiting can or can't do.....

In the end I think I'd want to be a CO and there so I could evaluate this and that.
Gut shot moose laying in fetid swamp water on a hot day?......Well the law does say, hunters are not allowed to let game meat spoil.

I think theres also discretion in the letters application and maybe its there because its near impossible to cover every possible scenario and contingency.