Good News!!!!...re: won't pick up duck

[Muzner]

So, I managed a few Woodys on the weekend and when I was cleaning them threw one of the tail feather chunks for Tucker. He brought it right back. I did that a few times and then threw the whole duck and he retrieved that as well. Another 10 times with no problems and then a few blinds for good measure. Pretty sure he knows what he needs to do now. It seems it was the frozen duck that was the issue. I go out with him every evening and he seems to have no issues bring the ducks back now. Thanks for all the great tips.

Mark

[Dythbringer]

So, I managed a few Woodys on the weekend and when I was cleaning them threw one of the tail feather chunks for Tucker. He brought it right back. I did that a few times and then threw the whole duck and he retrieved that as well. Another 10 times with no problems and then a few blinds for good measure. Pretty sure he knows what he needs to do now. It seems it was the frozen duck that was the issue. I go out with him every evening and he seems to have no issues bring the ducks back now. Thanks for all the great tips.

Mark

Hi Mark,

A few posters in the other thread made a comment about how the dog may not have been force fetched and you said you had not with your previous dog. Above, you said you had success with your current hunting buddy with fresh birds that you got on the weekend and appreciated all the tips everyone suggested. I hope you haven't given up on force fetch training your dog and understand that force fetch training is to ensure the dog reliably performs when you want him to and not when he feels like it. It is easy to pick up fresh wood ducks which are dry in short grass. It is a much different story when the ducks are in the muckiest of swamps and you want him to go get them and that is the the last thing he wants to do.

Dyth

[Bluebulldog]

Hi Mark,

A few posters in the other thread made a comment about how the dog may not have been force fetched and you said you had not with your previous dog. Above, you said you had success with your current hunting buddy with fresh birds that you got on the weekend and appreciated all the tips everyone suggested. I hope you haven't given up on force fetch training your dog and understand that force fetch training is to ensure the dog reliably performs when you want him to and not when he feels like it. It is easy to pick up fresh wood ducks which are dry in short grass. It is a much different story when the ducks are in the muckiest of swamps and you want him to go get them and that is the the last thing he wants to do.

Dyth

Depends on the dog.

My current Lab will go until I command "leave it". Doesn't matter the conditions or terrain. I haven't force fetched her at all.

Some dogs need it, others don't.

[krakadawn]

Force Fetch is very badly understood and most people do not know how to do it or why they are doing it. Therefore because of this many avoid attempting to teach the concept and constantly put up with lack of skilled behaviour on the dog's part.

A famous USA trainer said....'you own what you condone". Nothing could ever be truer in dog training.

The concept of FF is really about a 2 part concept. The first being to teach dogs how to properly hold what they are retrieving. That means no dropping, no crunching, no eating, no running away with bird, no dropping a crippled bird, no refusing to give bird up. None of this is about a 'forced' retrieve if you will. The hold will be a solid hold with no dropping while on the move etc.

The second part of this is to fetch on command, that means pick up bumpers or birds when told to do so. This is not about doing a retrieve, it is about picking up a bird from your hand , the ground or whatever.

So here's what it should look like. Dog sent for retrieve land or water , picks up object, returns to handler and most likely sits to deliver. They are then in the ready position to be sent again.

The force is not about the act of retrieving as much as it is about how the retrieve is done. The REAL underlying purpose of FF is that it is the very first time in the dog's training that he is compelled to do something. We are telling him this is how it must look. This sets the stage for the other sequential training that should take place.

Most dogs go because of inner prey drive but I can gurantee you that can come to and end and it's the discipline of retrieving that takes over.

The interesting thing about FF is that once it's completed dogs continue on almost like it was a natural phenomenon .

There is the odd dog that somehow understands this concept on it's own but that is very rare.

Remember the end result...a clean delivery with no chomping, dropping, rolling, dropping after leaving water and sitting to deliver to handler.

[vom Dufenshmirtz]

good news, muzner, next time don't overdo it, 10+ retrieves for the first time is a lot.
quit while you're ahead.
no disrespect to kraka or others, but don't feel bad if you don't ff your dog.

[Muzner]

This is my second dog. I have been fortunate to have 2 dogs from some of the best breeders and dog handlers around. With Rylie, I started him young...enrolled in a club...did Mcann's...watched videos....and at the end of the day, I said to myself "Do I really want this for him"? To have the "BEST" retriever???? My answer was quite simple. I wanted a dog who would retrieve ducks...not the BS of trials...all the arrogant trainers who think ther dog is the too good for everyone and have no time for the small guy. Rylie was never force fetched and would do anything for me. Both Rylie and Tucker have amazing drive....I have trained Tucker since he was old enough to run...not with ducks but with what I felt was important traits for a dog to have. The basics. I knew that the duck retrieve would come.. I just needed some suggestions on how to do it at his particular stage in the game. I don't want this thread to be misconstrued into a battle of whose right and whose wrong. Everybody does things differently and now that he is retrieving ducks, I have accomplished what I needed to. Thanks again...and if I can post some pics after the opener down here I will be certain to.

Mark

[krakadawn]

Hey Muzner, glad you found some success with the problem you had. Training dogs to get them to a certain point can be really challenging.

I offered an explanation for FF to help people understand what it really is and whether they wished to follow through with it. He's your dog, up to you to decide how, what and the way he does things. It's really great if he becomes a hunting companion .

I find it interesting though that you seem to have an issue with field trials or those who are involved with them.....the comment about the BS of trials for example....and arrogant trainers, not sure where that fits in all this. If your dog came from some of the best breeders and dog handlers around then why not stay in touch with them so that you can continue to find the best ways to problem solve any issues in training.

Hope you have a good shoot and get lots of opportunities for training.

[Sharon]

This is my second dog. I have been fortunate to have 2 dogs from some of the best breeders and dog handlers around. With Rylie, I started him young...enrolled in a club...did Mcann's...watched videos....and at the end of the day, I said to myself "Do I really want this for him"? To have the "BEST" retriever???? My answer was quite simple. I wanted a dog who would retrieve ducks...not the BS of trials...all the arrogant trainers who think ther dog is the too good for everyone and have no time for the small guy. Rylie was never force fetched and would do anything for me. Both Rylie and Tucker have amazing drive....I have trained Tucker since he was old enough to run...not with ducks but with what I felt was important traits for a dog to have. The basics. I knew that the duck retrieve would come.. I just needed some suggestions on how to do it at his particular stage in the game. I don't want this thread to be misconstrued into a battle of whose right and whose wrong. Everybody does things differently and now that he is retrieving ducks, I have accomplished what I needed to. Thanks again...and if I can post some pics after the opener down here I will be certain to.

Mark

Sorry you had a bad experience with trialing. I found the pros / amateurs etc VERY inviting and helpful. Anyone who wants to see exceptional dog (pointing breeds or retrievers) work should go to a trial.

[Muzner]

Hey Muzner, glad you found some success with the problem you had. Training dogs to get them to a certain point can be really challenging.

I offered an explanation for FF to help people understand what it really is and whether they wished to follow through with it. He's your dog, up to you to decide how, what and the way he does things. It's really great if he becomes a hunting companion .

I find it interesting though that you seem to have an issue with field trials or those who are involved with them.....the comment about the BS of trials for example....and arrogant trainers, not sure where that fits in all this. If your dog came from some of the best breeders and dog handlers around then why not stay in touch with them so that you can continue to find the best ways to problem solve any issues in training.

Hope you have a good shoot and get lots of opportunities for training.

krakadawn: I just found that if you don't absorb yourself completely in training your dog and are not fully knowledgeable about all the rules and regs, you are shunned...that's all. Maybe just my perception of an isolated experience. With that being said, I did initially have some good help to start my first dog and took some good advice from those in the club. I'm more like a weekend golfer...not a club house member. lolol

[yellow dog]

Depends on the dog.

My current Lab will go until I command "leave it". Doesn't matter the conditions or terrain. I haven't force fetched her at all.

Some dogs need it, others don't.

Agree and had a similar experience. Every dog is different.