Are wooden gun cabinets still legal?

[skull]

Attach a secure locking device, such as a trigger lock or cable lock (or remove the bolt) so the firearms cannot be fired
And you will be fine to store on your wooden cabinet

I also found this for you guys to read



: The Toronto Sun
DATE: 2006.02.05
EDITION: Final
SECTION: News
BYLINE: MARK BONOKOSKI, TORONTO SUN
COLUMN: Page Six
WORD COUNT: 774
ILLUSTRATION: photo by Mark Bonokoski Retired Toronto cop Ed Binstead is a firearms expert who still shoots in competitions.
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IF A SAFE'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR STORING LEGAL HANDGUNS, EX-COP ED BINSTEAD WOULD LIKE CHIEF BILL BLAIR'S OFFICE TO TELL HIM WHAT IS

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Shortly after the robbery of Mike Hargreaves' north Toronto apartment splashed onto the headlines -- his mega-heavy, 770-kilo concrete-and-steel safe having been relieved of 35 high-power weapons, including a Glock handgun used last September in a triple homicide involving suspected gangbangers -- retired Toronto detective Ed Binsted dashed off a letter to Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair.

And, in that letter, he asked a simple question.

If Hargreaves, a respected gun collector and firearms instructor, can find himself being charged with the unsafe storage of his legally registered weapons when it took the thieves two days of heavy slogging with blow torches and sledgehammers to breach a vault that surpassed absolutely all requirements, then what kind of storage would the chief define as "safe?"

Not only was it a simple question, it was a good one -- especially since it was coming from a cop who is not only a firearms expert himself, but had almost 33 years' experience on the Toronto force (including being in charge of gun registration), with his last assignment being a fraud investigator at 41 Division.

Ed Binsted, however, whose years in fraud made him wise to the implications of putting anything down on paper, was certainly expecting an answer from the chief's office. But an answer in writing would be a long shot.

And he was right.

Nonetheless, he crafted his letter methodically.

"The reason (Mike Hargreaves') story is so disturbing," Binsted wrote to the chief, "is because I also own firearms and keep them in a vault-type safe for safekeeping. "Is this not a safe way to store firearms?" he asked. "If it is not, then please advise a better way, or one that would be acceptable to the police, that would not result in charges being laid if the guns were stolen.

"I have represented the Toronto Police department in many shooting competitions throughout Canada and United States and still participate as a retiree," he wrote. "I am quite familiar with the Firearms Act and the sections of the Criminal Code dealing with firearms, since I was in charge of gun registration back in 1975.

"Being an investigator, I learned what evidence is required in order to prove a case, and how the evidence can be presented to be acceptable to the court," he wrote.

"The picture in the paper of (Hargreaves' apartment) indicated that (it) was ransacked and the door on the vault had been peeled off and was laying on the floor.

"What I fail to see is how an investigator can have reasonable and probable grounds to believe that the guns were stored unsafely unless he was present when the break-and-enter occurred and witnessed the unsafe storage of the guns himself before the theft," he wrote.

"The Firearms Act is an act under the Criminal Code of Canada and it is not a reverse-onus act. The Crown must prove that the guns were unsafely stored. The accused does not have to even get into the witness box to testify that they were safely stored," he wrote. "The officer must prove that they were unsafely stored and without an eyeball witness this would be impossible.

"A first-year law student would get a not guilty verdict without breaking a sweat," Binsted opined. "I feel that the officer who laid the information on the unsafe storage charge has left himself liable to a civil prosecution for malicious prosecution.

"In any event," Binstead wrote, "I await your reply as to a better way to store firearms other than a vault or safe."

The Canadian Firearms Centre, on behalf of the federal department of justice, puts out pamphlets concerning what is legally required for the storage of restricted and prohibited weapons such as handguns. And it is nothing compared to the lengths to which Mike Hargreaves went to store his handguns.

Under federal law, all that is required is that the handgun be unloaded and inoperable -- either through a trigger or cable lock -- and then locked in "a sturdy, secure container or room that cannot easily be broken open or into."

And that, basically, is the barest of minimums required, with a locked metal briefcase enough to legally pass as a "sturdy, secure container."

Safes and vaults -- with the thinnest of metals passing muster -- are the next step up, but are not legally required unless the gun owner wishes to store his ammo with his guns.

Mike Hargreaves' vault, by comparison, was a steel-and-concrete fortress so heavy that it would equal the weight of an Asian water buffalo.

"That's why I wanted a reply in writing," said Binsted, a member of two gun clubs. "I wanted to pass the information on to the members of my clubs."

A reply in writing, however, was not about to happen.

What Binsted got, instead, was a letter from Supt. Bob Clarke, executive officer in Chief Blair's office, indicating that his correspondence had been received.

And then he offered this. "While it is not our practice to comment on the validity of charges presently before the courts," Clarke wrote, "I invite you to telephone me to discuss other issues outlined in your letter."

Binsted, being an ex-cop with almost 33 years on the force, also knows a thing or two about phone calls. "When it comes to phone calls, you can always deny later on that you said what is claimed," said Binsted. "That's the problem with phone calls."

Nonetheless, with no other option, Binsted is going to take up Clarke's invitation to make that call. As soon as he finds his tape recorder.

[jaycee]

"A first-year law student would get a not guilty verdict without breaking a sweat," Binsted opined. "I feel that the officer who laid the information on the unsafe storage charge has left himself liable to a civil prosecution for malicious prosecution.

As I have mentioned before, charges have been laid by "overzealous cops " and as in Mike Hargreaves case, the charges have been dropped.
Makes you wonder if this cop had an axe to grind?

Now he will no doubt find himself in court facing malicious prosecution charges, he and anyone else involved.

[trimmer21]

[/B]

As I have mentioned before, charges have been laid by "overzealous cops " and as in Mike Hargreaves case, the charges have been dropped.
Makes you wonder if this cop had an axe to grind?

Now he will no doubt find himself in court facing malicious prosecution charges, he and anyone else involved.

Well,he should. The Oath of Office every Police Constable takes is quite specific "to enforce the law without fear,favor or malice aforethought......." When law enforcement enters the political process,there's enough clear evidence of conflict of interest and every LEO needs to realize that they can be held personally civilly liable for every tort committed by being over-zealous. It doesn't happen often enough and it most certainly should.

[Badenoch]

An older gentlemen in my home town insists on keeping his guns in a wood cabinet with a glass door. During a recent visit I helped him install some unobtrusive trigger locks and made sure the ammo was locked up so he's legal. He hasn't shot the guns in years but likes to look at them and remember his younger days.

[JoePa]

Just to let you see the difference - most of my rifles and shotguns are stored in a closet in one of my unused bedrooms - most of my ammo is also stored there - handguns are all over the place - some in a downstairs closet or in the kitchen cabinet - one on top of the refrigerator and one in my van - one 22 with a scope in laying on the bed of another unused bedroom so I can open the window and shoot any squirrels at my bird feeder - one deer rifle is leaning against the corner of the den - still there from hunting season - there are no kids living with me so I ain't worried about any kid getting at these weapons - a couple of the handguns are loaded - crossing that border sure makes a difference -

[fratri]

Just to let you see the difference - most of my rifles and shotguns are stored in a closet in one of my unused bedrooms - most of my ammo is also stored there - handguns are all over the place - some in a downstairs closet or in the kitchen cabinet - one on top of the refrigerator and one in my van - one 22 with a scope in laying on the bed of another unused bedroom so I can open the window and shoot any squirrels at my bird feeder - one deer rifle is leaning against the corner of the den - still there from hunting season - there are no kids living with me so I ain't worried about any kid getting at these weapons - a couple of the handguns are loaded - crossing that border sure makes a difference -

It sure does....but I'm not so sure it's for the better. A little fear is a good thing, sounds like some U.S. Citizens have forgotten how deadly guns can be.

[dilly]

You have been asleep for a decade havent you.

Mike Hargreaves, ring a bell??

He had a bank vault it took thieves 3 days to cut through while he was away he was charged with UNSAFE STORAGE. He lost his guns and spent 11 years fighting in court. His guns were destroyed.

Apology accepted

*sigh*....ok, calm down and take a breath GW

Now, go back and re-read my posts. Pay special attention to my last one. I referenced the case, so yeah, I am aware.

Yelling insults and getting your panties in a knot doesn’t make you right. Me disagreeing with you doesn’t make me right. It’s the internet and everyone is entitled to call others out on their bs. You AND me.

the “apology accepted” comments are juvenile and condescending.

[jaycee]

*sigh*....ok, calm down and take a breath GW

Now, go back and re-read my posts. Pay special attention to my last one. I referenced the case, so yeah, I am aware.

Yelling insults and getting your panties in a knot doesn’t make you right. Me disagreeing with you doesn’t make me right. It’s the internet and everyone is entitled to call others out on their bs. You AND me.

the “apology accepted” comments are juvenile and condescending.

Some members should go back and reread the Forum RULES

GUIDELINES:[COLOR=#000000]

[COLOR=#000000]Offensive language, including all racial, ethnic or sexual slurs, [COLOR=#000000]as well as personal attacks, including name-calling and insults directed at other forum members is prohibited.[COLOR=#000000]

[COLOR=#000000]3(a). Personal insults, inappropriate or offensive content, the incitement of violence, or disrupting behaviours, which are detrimental to discussions in the forum will not be tolerated.

I know the moderatators are busy, but they should crack down on these types of posts, it's happening more often now.

[welsh]

An older gentlemen in my home town insists on keeping his guns in a wood cabinet with a glass door. During a recent visit I helped him install some unobtrusive trigger locks and made sure the ammo was locked up so he's legal. He hasn't shot the guns in years but likes to look at them and remember his younger days.

Nice. Kudos to you for helping him out.

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[welsh]

Mike Hargreaves, a former Toronto-area gun-safety instructor and collector.

A single instance of someone being charged in 2003 does not prove that every time guns are stolen, the owner is charged, which was your original claim.

Let it go.



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