Guys that use either collars I have a question

[singlemalt]

I just read this whole thread. I wonder how many of the later posters bothered to look at the OP's original problem. He has a Beagle which is overprotective of him and barks at other dogs. Suddenly we are into discussions of e-collars and professional trainers. I would think that a far more sensible approach to this issue is just basic obedience, especially in presence of other dogs. I would suggest just enroll in a local obedience school. (Probably cheaper than a decent e-collar) They are kind of fun, you and your dog will enjoy it and both make new friends. I suspect your dog may have missed some socialization with other dogs as a pup. It is harder to overcome as an adult but not impossible. My wife rescued an 18 month old Rottweiler many years ago that had not been well socialized and had some aggression issues with other dogs. She took it through three levels of obedience training at a local club over a year or so. The change in that dog's attitude and demeanor was unbelievable. She lived a long happy life and had many dog friends after we got her in balance. If my wife could do it with a Rotty I can't imagine a Beagle being a major issue.

[Ugo]

I may have misinterpreted the OP's question. I responded to his title: Thread: Guys that use either collars I have a question.
I don't use pinch, choke or spiked collars so I offered my comments re e-collars. I apologize if I misunderstood.
As for "pros" I believe canine behavioural therapists would fall under this category. With an investment there-in comes an expectation.
If the OP choses to address this himself or with the help of a lay-person, I offered suggestions. Perhaps I was out-of-line?

[krakadawn]

The OP's original question was:
"Would a ecollar work in this case."

I don't think you misinterpreted the question at all Ugo, nothing wrong with any of the suggestions made. The fact that e collar use and the aid of a 'professional' suggestion was made makes sense in a reasonable discussion concerning the issue the OP identified.

I am totally on side with Singlemalt's suggestion about returning to the basics, I said the same. The problem with our suggestion is that many have no idea of what the 'basics' should look like, how to get there and what would the standard should look like. When standards are not upheld then dog behaviour is all over the place and lessons are not learned nor is there any reliability in the dog's performance of a given task.

As I said I definitely would use the collar but I understand and discriminate between Direct and Indirect pressure in it's application. For those who may be interested here's an example:
-dog charges after other dog, handler nicks dog for misbehaviour...this is direct pressure(in the understanding of learning..not as effective like a lightening bolt as far as dog is concerned)
-dog charges after other dog, handler says 'sit', repeats sit and nicks dog....this is indirect pressure( more effective since dog understands the command and dog receives pressure to a known command)

Happy New year to everyone, may your dogs find a way to become better trained.........

[Sharon]

Excellent explanation on the difference between using direct and Indirect pressure to address a problem.

[singlemalt]

And I stand by my suggestion of an obedience class. Although I suspect the original poster Dutchhunter has long lost interest in this thread as it has gone so far off topic. His problem is a Beagle which has problems with other dogs in his presence. To me the most logical approach is a structured environment for training basics in the company of other dogs. No need to worry about "what the standard looks like" what is "direct" vs. "indirect" pressure. Just enroll in a good class or obedience club and follow along with the class. The other advantage I have found is that you also do your homework better, with the dog each day, because you know next week you are back in front of the group and you don't want to be the one who shows no progress.

I have done this with all my recent dogs as pups. I then to go on to more and different training specific to a gundog but I have found the basic work in a group environment with other dogs very good for them all. Also don't get so arrogant because you are a "gun dog trainer" you will be always the top of the class. It is both humbling and motivating when the little old lady with the Sheltie starts to show you up.

[krakadawn]

The dog classes are a good suggestion and for most probably their best bet.

I would make you a bet though that good instructors understand how to maintain standards as well as how pressure, even in it's lowest levels affects learning whether it's you being humbled or the dog and we've all been there at some point.

[singlemalt]

The dog classes are a good suggestion and for most probably their best bet.

I would make you a bet though that good instructors understand how to maintain standards as well as how pressure, even in it's lowest levels affects learning whether it's you being humbled or the dog and we've all been there at some point.

Agreed. Which is why I think these classes are great for people who are not very experienced or always training a dog. A good instructor sets standards and expectations which are quite achievable but probably higher than most people would set on their own for themselves or their dogs.

[yellow dog]

Agreed. Which is why I think these classes are great for people who are not very experienced or always training a dog. A good instructor sets standards and expectations which are quite achievable but probably higher than most people would set on their own for themselves or their dogs.

Agree on everything you stated singlemalt. Every family/ hunting companion that I have had the pleasure of owning goes through a local obedience class 8 wk to 10wk course and in some cases onto the next level. It makes a world of difference particularly the dog interaction/socialization before and after each class . Each of my children as well as my wife would tag along so that the the entire family would absorb each lesson , how these lessons would transfer over to our everyday dog training and be on the same page.
Lots of of good information on Youtube for e-collar training if you feel the need to go that route. Canadian Gundog Supply also has some e-collar training videos on their website for training assistance. I am sure other gundog supply companies online do as well.