What Socialized Health Care Can Lead To -

[JoePa]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/...t-him-die.html - So here we have a little guy who judges feel it is better to let die then try to save his life - who is next -

[mooboy76]

I can understand why the parents are doing this, and I don't know what I would do in their place.

That is such a tragic story for Alfie and his family.

If you'd like to read the very thorough, and heart-wrenching, decision by the judiciary in February to support removal of life-support, then it is here.:
https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-cont...ey-v-evans.pdf

I hope everyone involves eventually finds peace in this, but it does not look like there is any chance Alfie could improve from his current state of untreatable seizures, essentially no motor function and no meaningful response to stimuli. He can't eat or swallow, and can't breath on his own.

I wish I had not read that, actually.

[JoePa]

He can breath on his own now and also swallow - that is what makes this situation so sad - this is what happens when the government gets involved

[manyo]

Socialised medicine allowed this child to be kept alive for almost two years, at no cost to the parents, giving more than enough time to have and explore hope of curing the child. Can you tell me how this would have played out in America, JoePa?

[mooboy76]

He can breath on his own now and also swallow - that is what makes this situation so sad - this is what happens when the government gets involved

Ah, yes, I forgot to look at the current articles. Almost two days and still breathing, that is a good sign I guess, or possibly false-hope. Either way, I don't fault the parents for attempting to explore all avenues.

The dad says eating in one article but I don't know whether that means through the naso-jejunal tube or swallowing liquids. Obviously there are patient privacy concerns, so it's hard to find out from the medical side.

As for the socialized healthcare part:

JoePa, I am unfamiliar with how treatment, referrals and second/third/fourth opinions work in various States. How easy would it have been for this family to access multiple neurological and paediatric expert assessments and second opinion reviews, repeated MRI and EEG scans, plus continued intensive care since December 2016?

Would that have been possible for them in a more privatized setting like the US, without incurring crushing debt? Or would they be relying on Medicare/Medicaid? I don't exactly know how the various insurance policies or HMOs work, so this question is in earnest, and not meant as a 'gotcha'.

[Species8472]

While Alfie's case is certainly terrible it is minor compared to the 1000s that die in the US every year because they either can't afford treatment or their insurance company screws them.

There is a reason life expectancy in the US is terrible compared to other developed countries. The 30 countries that beat the US in this category (including Canada and most of Europe) virtually all have public health care. Every system will have some issues (Alfie is an example of this) but on the average developed countries with public health care provide far better care than the average Joe can expect in the states.

[JoePa]

We have the best medical facilities in the world that is why so many people from other countries - including Canada - come here when they can't get proper treatment in their own county - if someone is on life support it is up to the family member who has power of attorney to decide if the support should be removed after discussing the situation with the doctors - some judge doesn't get to decide - no one is denied medical help - one can go to any hospital's emergency facility and get help - for free if needed -

How this would have played out in America - the child would be given every chance to live even if his life would be less than normal - if the family had insurance it would cover most things - if not there would be millions of people willing to contribute money for this family's health expenses - I'm am sure you know if there is a disaster anywhere in the world the U.S. is the first to help - we have many faults but one thing we are generous - I have friends in Ontario and I have often talked to them about health care - I can't get over the long time they have to wait to get some tests or procedure done - I can get a MRI scheduled in a couple days and a needed operation in a couple days - personally I have social security that pays around 85 % of my medical expenses and I also have a supplemental plan that pays the rest - I pay something each month for the supplemental plan but most of this is paid by the place where I retired from - life is sacred and everything should be done to save one no matter how much it would cost -

When you have socialized health care the government pays and gets the authority to decide who gets the help and how much - if our life expectancy is below other countries it is not because of the lack of health care - it is probably form eating to much and living the good life - or getting shot -

[Species8472]

First off I am generally speaking a capitalist pig, however where health care and education are concerned I make exceptions.

We have the best medical facilities in the world that is why so many people from other countries - including Canada - come here when they can't get proper treatment in their own county - if someone is on life support it is up to the family member who has power of attorney to decide if the support should be removed after discussing the situation with the doctors - some judge doesn't get to decide - no one is denied medical help - one can go to any hospital's emergency facility and get help - for free if needed -

How this would have played out in America - the child would be given every chance to live even if his life would be less than normal - if the family had insurance it would cover most things - if not there would be millions of people willing to contribute money for this family's health expenses - I'm am sure you know if there is a disaster anywhere in the world the U.S. is the first to help - we have many faults but one thing we are generous - I have friends in Ontario and I have often talked to them about health care - I can't get over the long time they have to wait to get some tests or procedure done - I can get a MRI scheduled in a couple days and a needed operation in a couple days - personally I have social security that pays around 85 % of my medical expenses and I also have a supplemental plan that pays the rest - I pay something each month for the supplemental plan but most of this is paid by the place where I retired from - life is sacred and everything should be done to save one no matter how much it would cost -

When you have socialized health care the government pays and gets the authority to decide who gets the help and how much - if our life expectancy is below other countries it is not because of the lack of health care - it is probably form eating to much and living the good life - or getting shot -

The people who travel to the States for treatment are typically very wealthy and getting treatments that would not even be available to most of your own country men. That's the problem with a system designed to profit from people's fear and suffering. I agree with you that Alfie's case is wrong but for every Alfie there are thousands who die in the States because they get no treatment in the first place - life is only sacred in America if you have money or an insurance company that decides not to screw you - getting denied treatment happens 1000s of times more often than a case like Alfies's in the land of the free - free to die.

if our life expectancy is below other countries it is not because of the lack of health care - it is probably form eating to much and living the good life - or getting shot

So your basically saying it is because of stupidity, ignorance and violence, in actuality it is because in countries like Canada we go to the doctor when we are sick. In the States lots of people don't because they can't pay and as result they stay ignorant to their own circumstances. Than what happens is the Americans keep on doing what they are doing and die young - in Canada the doctor explains the changes you need to make and you get treatment. Some people inevitably ignore the doctor but some don't and the result is more of us live longer. Our public system actually educates people so they are no longer ignorant.

[manyo]

What a wonderful country that must be. Imagine if the social security that you enjoy so much paid 100% instead of 85% for necessary treatments! That would truly be lovely.

[JoePa]

What a wonderful country that must be. Imagine if the social security that you enjoy so much paid 100% instead of 85% for necessary treatments! That would truly be lovely.

Yes and then have to wait months to have tests done or get a operation - and then if you are old and need something done you are delayed further so some young guy can get things done earlier - when you get the government involved it is never better - that includes health care and education - most of the public schools are zoos and students are way behind other countries - public schools don't teach anymore they indoctrinate kids - I know of no one that died because they couldn't get medical attention - I don't know where you got that from - if things were so bad why is it that we have to build a wall to keep people out of here - rumor has it we might build a wall on our northern border some day