ATV Clubs / Is There A Reason For Them

[Deer Wrastler]

Ohh you belong to an ATV club? thats cute...lol

[Snowwalker]

There's an active ATV club in the Sudbury area. They lobbied for, and unbelievably got permission to drive on certain highways and roadways in the Region of Subury. Now, you have to expect these characters driving up and down residential streets at all hours, down the center of paved roads, and when they do pull over and ride the shoulders they've got them so warn down the pavement is actually breaking away. Now, guess who pays to have these shoulders repaired.
Yesterday I actually watched a guy on an ATV with a snowplow drive along the center median of a 4 lane highway...no helmet.

I wonder if that could be the same club(s), that told me to shove 500 ( FREE with mounting attachments) cement railway ties up my rear, when
I and a retired CN Employee offered them. There is a couple bridges on the TCAT that need some maintenance and a upgrade from 8.5/9 foot wooden ties to 12/14 foot cement ties would have been great.

[Woodsman]

What many here don't get is that the ATV clubs don't actually make up the rules in many cases. I'm a member of Huronshores ATV club. Most of the trail system is on land controlled by Bruce County. It is the County that makes most of the rules. Without an active club these trails wouldn't be open. Any changes we want to make has to have the County approval.
As for the cement ties Snowwalker mentioned we would also say no thanks unless we had an imediate need and the resources to use them quickly. Where would we store them or how to move them would be a issue. Would the County approve their use? Would the sub-structure support the weight? Would the structure and land allow the extra width?
For those not dirrectly involved they may not see where the club dues go. Our club is required to carry 10 million dollar insurance policy. Not cheap. Yearly thousands of dollars are spent on trail maintenance. Yes some of our trails are also used by the snowmobile clubs in the winter and they do some maintenance but we also do our share and I suspect more is done to the trails by the ATV club. The snowmobile club does grooming which is of little use to us.

[Snowwalker]

Woodsman, the cement ties were offered so that a narrow ( 8 feet wide) train bridge on the TCAT could be repaired. The bridge crosses a wide river valley, and is a couple hundred feet in the air, with no side rails or barriers. The bridge is becoming damaged with many of the wooden ties missing, burned( by lightning strikes or vandalism) and in various states of decay. There is a large area beside the old CN railway bed less then a kilometer from the bridge. CN was looking at two options for the ties, destroying them, or donation. CN would have moved the ties( what ever number the club wanted) to the site, and provided the hardware, and maintenance crews to install them.

So storage, transportation and structure strength would not have been a problem.
There was even plans to add railings to the sides to improve safety.
CN was looking for only three things.
1) Tax credits for donation of the ties and hardware.

2) Tax credits of donation of the crew.

3) Not having to pay money to have the ties recycled, and maybe get some good PR out of the project.

All they needed was for one( any one) of the local clubs to say yes to recieving the ties to repair the bridge. The Federal Government had already agreed to the dollar value of the donation.


So tell me, if you and your family walked over a four foot wide wooden decked bridge a hudred feet in the air with no railings everyday, then a large company said " Hey woods old buddy, why don't you let us put an eight foot wide cement deck with rails on the bridge for free" are you going to say No? That large company is also the same one that built and donated the bridge to begin with.

Now ask me what the reason the clubs said no was... go on ask me.

[Species8472]

Holy necro thread.

[Woodsman]

Did the club have the authority to change the structures composition? Who would have the approval for the changes? Would the changes require an engineering approval? My guess is a bridge that high would need an engineer to approve it. I don't have the answers do you? If anything went wrong where would the responsibility lay?

[jaycee]

Did the club have the authority to change the structures composition? Who would have the approval for the changes? Would the changes require an engineering approval? My guess is a bridge that high would need an engineer to approve it. I don't have the answers do you? If anything went wrong where would the responsibility lay?

The club naturally, CN would say "no way jose " you built it , you are responsible as the person or persons that used it and had an accident, are never held responsible for their own actions. These days, its always someone else's fault.

[Snowwalker]

Did the club have the authority to change the structures composition? Who would have the approval for the changes? Would the changes require an engineering approval? My guess is a bridge that high would need an engineer to approve it. I don't have the answers do you? If anything went wrong where would the responsibility lay?

CN has the Authority. To Make changes, to issue engineering approval from CN Engineers, since they still own the bridge.
They still own the whole railbed that the trail uses. The legalist hoops are beyond you and I, but a simple agreement to let CN do "Trail Maintenance " from a representative of one of the local clubs was all CN needed to fix and upgrade the bridge.


So now instead of the bridge being repaired, it will likely be removed or have the end sections removed to stop ATV, Snowmobile, hikers, hunters, or anyone from using it because of liability issue.

One bridge lost will now remove about a hundred kilometers of trail from the TCAT.

[trimmer21]

CN has the Authority. To Make changes, to issue engineering approval from CN Engineers, since they still own the bridge.
They still own the whole railbed that the trail uses. The legalist hoops are beyond you and I, but a simple agreement to let CN do "Trail Maintenance " from a representative of one of the local clubs was all CN needed to fix and upgrade the bridge.


So now instead of the bridge being repaired, it will likely be removed or have the end sections removed to stop ATV, Snowmobile, hikers, hunters, or anyone from using it because of liability issue.

One bridge lost will now remove about a hundred kilometers of trail from the TCAT.

With all the angst raised by people that CN made the offer to,it wouldn't surprise me if they simply demo'd the bridge. End of problem.

[Woodsman]

Damn your story changes Snowwalker.
First you claim you offered to donate the cement ties to now CN would do the engineering study, work and maintain responsibility.
If the CN controlls the bridge why do they need the clubs permission?