Not Shooting Birds

[jaycee]

The Op said the dog had 14 finds/points, only a couple of shots/misses, I'm sure the dog is still well balanced

Thanks for bringing it to the attention of G note he apparently missed that in reading the OP'S POST.

[Cass]

I think what would negatively impact the dog is many consecutive hunts where the dog gets no contacts. Then it would be hard to keep motivation high and the dog not think it's just out for a walk. As long as the dog is finding birds - even if it's not many, that's more than enough. I shoot very few grouse each season - partly due to misses and partly due to me just wanting to watch the dog and not impact bird numbers too much in an area that already has few birds. I make sure I take a couple throughout the season for him to get the whole experience but at almost 6 years old he knows what he's there for whether he retrieves or not. As others have mentioned I also run him in the spring with a blank pistol. My dog is a hunting fool. If you take him anywhere he's hunting. Yes initial training and bird exposure is key to any training program but the dog's work ethic is a bigger piece of the puzzle than just shooting lots of birds.

[G note]

I have a dog that has been hunted over for 6 years. Never had a problem with him. Still don't have a problem. The problem seems to be me. Last couple of times out he has pointed 14 birds. Problem: bush is still really thick so I either don't get a shot off or I miss (just a few times). My question. Does the absence of actually shooting down birds (repeatedly) negatively affect the dogs ability/desire to hunt? I have read that it can when the dog is young and still learning. Just wondering if it matters at all with older, experienced/finished dogs (which this one is). Perhaps I am worrying over nothing?

The Op said the dog had 14 finds/points, only a couple of shots/misses, I'm sure the dog is still well balanced

Before I started any comments I did read the OP’s post and realised that he missed “just a few times” the question being asked; does the absence of actually shooting down birds (repeatedly) negatively affect the dog’s ability/desire to hunt? My answer to the question is no I don’t believe the absence of missing birds will hurt the dog’s ability or its desire.

I’ll try and explain my view one more time before I wash my hands with it. It’s clear I am missing something as everyone else disagrees with my statements.
If success is determined by just pointing and perhaps flushing to the 14 birds then the dog has been successful. However and this is where I could be simply wrong regarding Jupiter’s training making my whole theory wrong.
If the 6 year old dog is trained with high standards and negative corrections are applied for noncompliance during training and the sequence during training is POINT + FLUSH (human or dog) + SHOT + RETRIEVE and then you take Jupiter into the field and consecutively deny the retrieve for whatever reasons
like POINT + FLUSH + NO SHOT+____
POINT + FLUSH + MISSED SHOT + NO RETRIEVE
The dog is missing something an I believe the dog is out balance and simply needs a bird! Its a simple fix and the dog will not lose desire or ability

Like I said this is my view and it seems that I’m off or wrong somewhere but I can assure you if it was my dog and he has received negative pressure during training throughout his training carrier regarding this sequence or pressure in the field I would reward him with a bird (through training or other means) and I would not let him be denied again.

[jaycee]

[COLOR=#000000]I’ll try and explain my view one more time before I wash my hands with it. It’s clear I am missing something as everyone else d[COLOR=#000000]isagrees with my statements.

Doesn't that tell you something?

Well , it's your dog, you do what you think is best for your dog,it's your prerogative, the rest of us will carry on as
always have , after all we are dealing with our dogs.

[Deep Water]

Thanks for all the comments. they are all helpful and put my mind at ease. I now realize I worry/panic too much. I'll be sure to let Jupiter know his looks received a few compliments. He likes hearing that!

[Cass]

I think g note's post is being taken out of context a bit. He has a lab. For a retriever trained to retrieve... the retrieve is the ultimate reward. But for many other bird dogs just the contact and a nose full of scent is the reward. The distinction needs to be made here and what the individual dog sees as the big reward (ie. What the owner has shaped into being the big reward). My spaniel is similar to a lab as a lot of his training has been from a retriever perspective. I believe that when he does get a retrieve it does make it a bit more special for him but that could be me putting my own feelings on it. Rewards are not always so cut and dried as unfortunately the dog can't tell you in plain English what they want the most. In the end most probably see the biggest reward as a strong pat and an excited "good dog".

[finsfurfeathers]

Thanks for all the comments. they are all helpful and put my mind at ease. I now realize I worry/panic too much. I'll be sure to let Jupiter know his looks received a few compliments. He likes hearing that!

And that's all the reward a good gun dog needs. Knowing he has pleased you with everything he does.

[finsfurfeathers]

I think g note's post is being taken out of context a bit. He has a lab. For a retriever trained to retrieve... the retrieve is the ultimate reward. But for many other bird dogs just the contact and a nose full of scent is the reward. The distinction needs to be made here and what the individual dog sees as the big reward (ie. What the owner has shaped into being the big reward). My spaniel is similar to a lab as a lot of his training has been from a retriever perspective. I believe that when he does get a retrieve it does make it a bit more special for him but that could be me putting my own feelings on it. Rewards are not always so cut and dried as unfortunately the dog can't tell you in plain English what they want the most. In the end most probably see the biggest reward as a strong pat and an excited "good dog".

Could not have said it better. A good bird dog is out to please you not themselves so let them know it.

[krakadawn]

Regardless of the type of gun dog you have there is an underlying principle common to all.......the ABC's of dog training.
A-attitude
B-balance
C-control
I would suggest that when examining a question like the OP's we use this type of framework to determine if there is an impact on the dog. The handler is in the best position to make the determination of that. I really don't think missing a few birds will distort things that much but watch closely things like 'control'. Do you begin to see some behaviour patterns....things like being wild/chasing flying bird/fail to recall/poor attitude in hunt....list goes on.
If you do begin to see any behavioural change especially as it relates to the standards you set for your dog, then be prepared to adjust training.

Problem for most is that there are very weak standards set for the dogs they own. Then once a problem arises you have no base or foundation to review the issue and correct and dog continues to practise a fault to perfection!

Good luck!