MNRF cuts.

[LoR]

Lmao how typical.

I suggest all of you read what was written in plain English again.

But I’ll help get you started.

1) PS servants are paid too much.

2) the MC is in trouble

Think about it, think really hard. It’s actually not.. all that hard had you bother to read.

Then think about your replies.

Let make it clear. It’s the well off in PS ( thanks to taxation) that are screwing over the lower middle class....

ffs I even defied anyone to justify why someone that grosses say 80-90k, has their pensions paid for by people who are screwed

Too funny this place

[terrym]

Well, just to perk up all you guys who work hard and are the backbone of the economy I just read Trudough is considering a plastic tax. Just like the carbon tax it will put money in your pocket right?

[LoR]

I wouldn’t be “against” that Terry. Would likely be against how the $ gets used.

In the news the past few weeks. The Philippines are threatening to declare war over tons of “our” garbage. Turns out “we” are one of the highest polluters per capita. Greed, gluttony, the Jones’s, big cities, big houses, and more.

Read something months ago that Tim’s cups, plastic water bottles, fast food wrappers etc.........

Difference between that kind of a tax, and a carbon tax is, it’s a choice for consumers. Home heating in a cold climate...not so much.

Also in the news
Fords cuts that aren’t cuts. All he’s doing is shuffling $. Cutting here, spending there. The budget still won’t be balanced until after the next election.

50million cut from a tree planting thing. The MNRF, the MoE, environmental protections, etc.

Also to be cut
10B from Toronto Public health. Good imo. They can start paying their own way. Raise land taxes, or generate revenue other ways.

We here live in the land of plenty. So much green, so much water. So much gluttony as though there’s no tomorrow.

And the elephant in the room, that too often it seems everyone forgets about.

The wall we are going to hit when millions. Millions of peons hit 65. Leave the workforce ( less tax revenue), spend less ( less tax revenue). Put one serious strain on various things ( long term care, health care, and more)...

And have nowhere, near enough $ to see them through. Was talking to my neighbor on the weekend. He just put his mom in a home. He was utterly gob smocked at the $3,200 per month. For a closet.

Stats from the past 60 years have long shown it’s the combined impact of stagnant wages ( coporate greed) and increased taxation...

All kinds of philosophical and scholarly reading “ out there” on the most important part of society.
The middle class and tax base.............

Let them eat cake I suppose.
One only has to look South of the border to see where we are heading.

[MarkB]

Lmao how typical.

I suggest all of you read what was written in plain English again.

But I’ll help get you started.

1) PS servants are paid too much.

2) the MC is in trouble

Think about it, think really hard. It’s actually not.. all that hard had you bother to read.

Then think about your replies.

Let make it clear. It’s the well off in PS ( thanks to taxation) that are screwing over the lower middle class....

ffs I even defied anyone to justify why someone that grosses say 80-90k, has their pensions paid for by people who are screwed

Too funny this place

I did read everything you wrote, and can say it wasn't 100% clear. If this is 100% focused on public servants, and you are saying the high income earners are screwing the middle class ... we'll maybe, I'd have to study it more to be honest. If a PS works their buTT off, then let them earn good money, as long as they add value. That's all I care about.

The real question is, what % of public service is actually a waste of money ... they go into the office for 4 hours a day, pretend to work, charge 8 hours a day ... leaches. And what % of tax money is effectively returned to Canadians ... not to confuse with the waste I speak of in the previous sentence ... here I'm getting at the money that Trudope is throwing away to many other countries that we will never see
ANY benefit from. I believe in good will ... I'd MUCH rather that money go to getting OUR homeless kids off the streets, in good homes, educated ... than it going to France to fight a losing battle on the environmental initiatives because other countries just continue to pollute away.

So I apologize for misinterpreting what you wrote ... but in the end, it's about separating those that work hard and EARN their salary vs. those leaches on our economy, public services, the freeloader that is abusing our welfare systems, and Trudope alike.

[LoR]

Mark, this forum has a long history on this debate. And there are various “PS” here.
Sometimes mincing words, treading around the eggshells is needed.

There are those who will post about lazy PS, there are contractors here that have first hand experience with the gouging, and far far more. That’s true in any walk of life. What’s not the same is you and I have the option, of shopping somewhere else.

Imo, there no way, anyone, including some of the most highly regarded economist can drill down and say “they” are over compensated. That leaves broad brush strokes and generalities.

Consider “just” this and I will specifically name education/teachers. A good friend of mine, herself a teacher of 23 years will point out.

Most of the right forget that after Harris, a whole bunch of teachers were hired. Today, they have 20 years in and due to stupid union compensation ( salaries grids where people get nice raises just for showing up and doing their jobs). They are all “way up” there. And that’s before benefits.......

Me I don’t care much for green grass, or yellow grass arguments.

I think about millions of peons entering their 70s without anywhere near enough...being forced back into the workforce (becoming more common to see seniors working at Tim’s, Walmart, the liquor store, etc already) and the reasons why.

Stagnant wages and increasing taxation primarily. And the wall we will hit when those chickens come home to roost. I don’t know very many middle class families with $700,000 in the bank ( for 1 person).We can also see early signs of the trouble in the rise of populism.

Don’t much care what anyone makes. Be they a teacher or cab driver. If they work hard and make 100k. “Good for them”.

But anything, be it a house, a car, a widget, a person in a job.Is only “worth” what the buyer can afford. In this case, the tax base. That large percentage of the population ( pyramid).



Back to Ford and his “cuts”.
At the end of it all. We are still running deficits ( he’s spending as much as he cuts) and will. With only a typical political promise......

Meanwhile, that wall, like the climate changing is getting ever so closer.

And even when they balance the budget, if they ever do. Debt to GDP is still an albatross.

[gbk]

Please define, who you are speaking about when you say relatively well off, in this statement, "In effect, people who are relatively well off, are robbing those who face stark futures." and how are they robbing people. The tax brackets are insane right now, most people making a decent income are paying 60% taxes on every extra dollar they earn. Shall we take (steal) 80%? 90%? 100%? I do not agree with taxing the wealthy a stupid amount of tax because it doesn't work ... they will simply move, or not work that extra hour. If you don't incentivize people, you end up with a social government, and ask Venezuela how that is going for them.

People envisage the wealthy as some sort of brat that inherited everything ... they don't see the person that studied hard, worked day and night, paid their dues (taxes included) and just happened to make a good business or career of what they do. So, what right do we have to take (steal) money from those that worked hard to get where they are?

Most of the people here are against the Public Servants getting overly paid comparing to the average MC person,who is on the losing end. PS gets their high $ from tax money because they used pressure or otherwise influenced the Government in charge, to give and give.From where, may i ask?
So the controversy is-it is not OK to take(steal)from the wealthy,but it seems OK to take from the average Joe ?While Joe makes in many places 15-25 $,many PS (with little or no significant contribution )make 3-5 x more $.From everyone's taxes!
At the other hand ,it is clear the wealthy may move on,or businesses would leave if the average Joe would ask for "to much compensation",or they would be taxed above and beyond.However they are part of the society and they are taxed as such.
There is a sophisticated balance how to keep businesses to stay-while having them contribute to the tax burden.

It has nothing to do with taking from steadily "sinking" MC and give to the privileged few (PS).


It is realistic expectation to have certain fairness in taxation- taxed vs those who make their living from tax money!

[sawbill]

I wasn't going to bother responding to the usual from JBen so I'll just remark on one of his interpretations, that of seniors needing to work after retirement to boost their pensions. I know a lot of these guys and gals personally. Most went back to work because they were simply bored sitting around the house. The thought of getting a bit of pin money sits well with them. And just maybe their pensions are not quite as lucrative as you like to make out. I'm talking about PS guys here.
So why would a Kmart or Lowes hire these guys? They have a good work ethic. They have a knowledge younger generation have yet to develop. And they'll work part time for minimum wage and not complain.
When I was in the PS I just wish I made a fair chunk of that obscene salary you keep talking about.

[fishermccann]

SB I was a PS worker for 32 years. I worked so dam hard for those years , that I never entertained any idea of working again.

[jaycee]

I wasn't going to bother responding to the usual from JBen so I'll just remark on one of his interpretations, that of seniors needing to work after retirement to boost their pensions. I know a lot of these guys and gals personally. Most went back to work because they were simply bored sitting around the house. The thought of getting a bit of pin money sits well with them. And just maybe their pensions are quite as lucrative as you like to make out. I'm talking about PS guys here.
So why would a Kmart or Lowes hire these guys? They have a good work ethic. They have a knowledge younger generation have yet to develop. And they'll work part time for minimum wage and not complain.
When I was in the PS I just wish I made a fair chunk of that obscene salary you keep talking about.

Exactly , My post would almost echo yours!

[benjhind]

I don't really get the argument here. How much do you expect a teacher to work for after dumping $50-100K and 4 or 5 years of their life into education?

I went to university, so did most of my friends. We all work white collar jobs and none of us work for peanuts. In general, those that I know in the public service make less money than those I know in the private sector. The public sector guys take home less pay, but they work fewer hours and have good pensions.

The guys I know who make the most coin either started a business or pull lots of OT in the trades.

If you want highschool dropouts to teach your kids or write your prescriptions, you can have them for minimum wage. If you want professionals you have to pay a professional wage.