MNRF cuts.

[Bluebulldog]

Try working for a global company that would love to get away with treating their employees in Canada the same way they treat them in third world countries. Then tell me unions aren't needed.



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...and in one clear statement, you in fact have hurt the baseline of your argument.

Those companies cannot treat employees in Canada the same as other jurisdictions, because of our labour laws and standards....this applies to Union and non-union alike.....

The argument that Labour laws are there because of unions, may be somewhat truthful...however it does nothing to validate the need for Unions today....

[Bluebulldog]

Plus teachers benefits stop the day they retire.... After the retirement date, benefits if they want them, must come out of their own pocket, a pension they get, benefits they do not...Anyway, things always look greener on the other side..............

You mean like the rest of the world?

Even municipal workers don't get "lifetime" benefits. They can opt to buy into them after retirement....

[fratri]

You mean like the rest of the world?

Even municipal workers don't get "lifetime" benefits. They can opt to buy into them after retirement....

There are some unions (electrical and sewer/water-main I think) that do get benefits when they retire.... teachers and most of the working world don't but there are some out there... teacher are just not one of them.....

[Bluebulldog]

There are some unions (electrical and sewer/water-main I think) that do get benefits when they retire.... teachers and most of the working world don't but there are some out there... teacher are just not one of them.....

You'd think with all their relative bargaining power, and the Millions$$$ made by the teachers unions that they would have negotiated that....

[trimmer21]

Plus teachers benefits stop the day they retire.... After the retirement date, benefits if they want them, must come out of their own pocket, a pension they get, benefits they do not...Anyway, things always look greener on the other side..............

True,but,with provincial health care a given (so far unless it collapses completely) supplemental benefit insurance isn't prohibitively expensive.

[GW11]

...and in one clear statement, you in fact have hurt the baseline of your argument.

Those companies cannot treat employees in Canada the same as other jurisdictions, because of our labour laws and standards....this applies to Union and non-union alike.....

The argument that Labour laws are there because of unions, may be somewhat truthful...however it does nothing to validate the need for Unions today....

If you consider the bare minimum fair then I guess you're right.






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[bdog]

Teachers work on a PD day? You know when there's PD day in our board because it's hard to get a seat at the local pub at lunch time. Or does PD stand for piss drunk?

Maybe where you're from it happens that way, it's not the case where I'm from, there is work to be done on PD days

[Bluebulldog]

If you consider the bare minimum fair then I guess you're right.






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Funny.

I've worked as non-union for almost the last 20 years. Never once have I ever looked at a union members compensation, or benefits and wished I had what they had....and I've worked in a municipal environment.

Like many professionals ( particularly those who are supposedly highly educated), I never saw the need to have to negotiate my "value"...the market does that. You either employ people with what the market will value them at, or they do not stay in your employ long. So when sitting down and negotiating salary and compensation, I was able to get what was fair. I took a position in Feb this year, and my salary is above market average, and I have 5 weeks vacation......and no union negotiated that for me.

Teachers unions, and others, exist solely on the premise that the big bad capitalist want to treat them like slaves. Most employers recognize that in todays market, they have to ensure employees are treated fairly, and are valued.

As an aside...the most toxic workplaces I've ever worked in? Unionized, hands down.

[GW11]

Funny.

I've worked as non-union for almost the last 20 years. Never once have I ever looked at a union members compensation, or benefits and wished I had what they had....and I've worked in a municipal environment.

Like many professionals ( particularly those who are supposedly highly educated), I never saw the need to have to negotiate my "value"...the market does that. You either employ people with what the market will value them at, or they do not stay in your employ long. So when sitting down and negotiating salary and compensation, I was able to get what was fair. I took a position in Feb this year, and my salary is above market average, and I have 5 weeks vacation......and no union negotiated that for me.

Teachers unions, and others, exist solely on the premise that the big bad capitalist want to treat them like slaves. Most employers recognize that in todays market, they have to ensure employees are treated fairly, and are valued.

As an aside...the most toxic workplaces I've ever worked in? Unionized, hands down.

Nice work in negotiating yourself a decent deal.

Look, you're not going to change my mind at all and I'm not going to change yours. The fact is, years ago I thought pretty much the same way. I have no doubt that if I decided to leave my current position and negotiate myself salary, benefits and vacation with another company I wouldn't have a problem. I spent 3 years in college and have worked in a technical position for over 20 years. In short, I don't NEED a union either.

When I first started with this company, the union came with the job. I didn't think too much of it one way or the other. Fast forward to 20 years later and I have negotiated multiple collective agreements and fought over 100 grievances against one of the largest, richest companies in the world. I now represent over 120 unionied workers at this site. I know EXACTLY what "value" companies like this one place upon their employees.

All that being said... does every unionized employee deserve what they have, or even appreciate it? Absolutely not. There are plenty of times where I know I could have made better arguments from the other side of the table. There are a few bad apples but 95% of the unionized workers I represent are honest and hard working people. Their "value" to the company would be as little as the company is forced to give them by law if we didn't fight to improve things for ourselves.

Everything I have said above I do on a voluntary basis. I don't get paid any more than my regular wages and I don't have any extra time set aside for me during the work week to do it. I still do my day to day job and fit the rest in where I can. Basically, I fell into my current role because I couldn't sit quietly and watch such a rich company try to nickel and dime good honest people in the name of cutting costs.

I've watched salaried employees have their retirement benefits revoked, their benefits plans reduced, their workload increased to the point of serious stress related health problems and watched 35 year olds look like they've turned 55 overnight. Some of them came from union positions and nearly every one of them regrets jumping from union to salary.

This is just my perspective, I know that you and the majority of folks on here don't agree and that's fine. I'm not 100% union either, I just sort of ended up here. Funny how life works.



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[Bluebulldog]

Nice work in negotiating yourself a decent deal.

Look, you're not going to change my mind at all and I'm not going to change yours. The fact is, years ago I thought pretty much the same way. I have no doubt that if I decided to leave my current position and negotiate myself salary, benefits and vacation with another company I wouldn't have a problem. I spent 3 years in college and have worked in a technical position for over 20 years. In short, I don't NEED a union either.

When I first started with this company, the union came with the job. I didn't think too much of it one way or the other. Fast forward to 20 years later and I have negotiated multiple collective agreements and fought over 100 grievances against one of the largest, richest companies in the world. I now represent over 120 unionied workers at this site. I know EXACTLY what "value" companies like this one place upon their employees.

All that being said... does every unionized employee deserve what they have, or even appreciate it? Absolutely not. There are plenty of times where I know I could have made better arguments from the other side of the table. There are a few bad apples but 95% of the unionized workers I represent are honest and hard working people. Their "value" to the company would be as little as the company is forced to give them by law if we didn't fight to improve things for ourselves.

Everything I have said above I do on a voluntary basis. I don't get paid any more than my regular wages and I don't have any extra time set aside for me during the work week to do it. I still do my day to day job and fit the rest in where I can. Basically, I fell into my current role because I couldn't sit quietly and watch such a rich company try to nickel and dime good honest people in the name of cutting costs.

I've watched salaried employees have their retirement benefits revoked, their benefits plans reduced, their workload increased to the point of serious stress related health problems and watched 35 year olds look like they've turned 55 overnight. Some of them came from union positions and nearly every one of them regrets jumping from union to salary.

This is just my perspective, I know that you and the majority of folks on here don't agree and that's fine. I'm not 100% union either, I just sort of ended up here. Funny how life works.



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Actually, funny enough..I was a union steward, many moons ago, and "fell" into it, in much the same way.

Cheers.