Archery calf tag ???

[trimmer21]

An antlerless draw system sure worked for Deer. Why not for Moose? To make sure that works,though,we need to eliminate the calf harvest,completely and return to a bi-annual hunt south of the French-Mattawa.

[jaycee]

An antlerless draw system sure worked for Deer. Why not for Moose? To make sure that works,though,we need to eliminate the calf harvest,completely and return to a bi-annual hunt south of the French-Mattawa.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that idea!
I well remember when Moose Hunting was opened up in the south, we only hunted them every other year.

[Buckshot517]

So the way to save the moose population is to keep things as they are?

No thats not what i am saying.

And sorry we have hijacked your thread on moose tags, its evolved a bit.

I am saying we need changes i am just throwing one piece of the pie out there.

This is something that would allow hunters to make and ethical conscious decision as to what animal they would harvest. As it stands now if you are hunting norther ontario you have a two week window where you can harvest a calf. If you have a cow tag and hunt opening weekend you can harvest a cow, should you choose to. If a cow and calf walk out you may only harvest the cow, in my eyes you are probably killing several moose as the cow is probably pregnant and you are orphaning a calf, maybe it will die maybe it will survive. But why not be able to make that ethical moral decision and harvest what you feel is the correct animal. A antlerless tag would allow you to make that decision.

Or there is the option as you have stated no cows and calfs.

If you look at stuff in the media last year there was a pile of moose seized, wonder how many of them were hunters shooting the wrong animal. Every year you hear of someone shooting a cow for a calf or vice versa. Then there are those of biff a bull saying it was a cow.

https://www.sudbury.com/around-the-n...ovince-1120183

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thund...rges-1.4880269

These two things in the media are from last fall, different areas and time frames, not sure if a antler point system or antler size system would work in Ontario. I am sure a bunch of these animals were shot as a result of not confirming what you are squeezing the trigger on. We have a great resource it just need a bit of an adjustment and hopefully we can get it on track.

I am going to try and make it to one of these meetings there are holding about moose management. If i don't i shouldn't complain.

https://www.thepeterboroughexaminer....unting-review/

We all should be part of the solution for those that can't make it hopefully there is something online that will allow people to put there ideas forward and be heard.

Should be interesting to see where things go in the future.

[Fox]

No thats not what i am saying.

And sorry we have hijacked your thread on moose tags, its evolved a bit.

I am saying we need changes i am just throwing one piece of the pie out there.

This is something that would allow hunters to make and ethical conscious decision as to what animal they would harvest. As it stands now if you are hunting norther ontario you have a two week window where you can harvest a calf. If you have a cow tag and hunt opening weekend you can harvest a cow, should you choose to. If a cow and calf walk out you may only harvest the cow, in my eyes you are probably killing several moose as the cow is probably pregnant and you are orphaning a calf, maybe it will die maybe it will survive. But why not be able to make that ethical moral decision and harvest what you feel is the correct animal. A antlerless tag would allow you to make that decision.

Or there is the option as you have stated no cows and calfs.

If you look at stuff in the media last year there was a pile of moose seized, wonder how many of them were hunters shooting the wrong animal. Every year you hear of someone shooting a cow for a calf or vice versa. Then there are those of biff a bull saying it was a cow.

https://www.sudbury.com/around-the-n...ovince-1120183

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thund...rges-1.4880269

These two things in the media are from last fall, different areas and time frames, not sure if a antler point system or antler size system would work in Ontario. I am sure a bunch of these animals were shot as a result of not confirming what you are squeezing the trigger on. We have a great resource it just need a bit of an adjustment and hopefully we can get it on track.

I am going to try and make it to one of these meetings there are holding about moose management. If i don't i shouldn't complain.

https://www.thepeterboroughexaminer....unting-review/

We all should be part of the solution for those that can't make it hopefully there is something online that will allow people to put there ideas forward and be heard.

Should be interesting to see where things go in the future.

I am pretty sure I hijacked the thread, just very concerned that my daughter may never see a moose in Ontario.

If you ask any farmer how their herd would do if they killed off an unlimited number of calves and limit the bulls and cows, they would not be able to maintain the herd, there needs to be controls on the babies. I guess I do not see any reason why they should not lock it all down. I know that people would throw in the bears, wolves and natives argument but if non-native hunters shoot 2000 calves in the province that is 2000 calves that did not make it on top of the ones shot by natives and eaten by bears/wolves, just because you shot it does not mean the bear/wolf does not go kill another one, same with native hunters. That 2000 calves is probably pretty close to 1000 cows as well, so 1000 less cows to reproduce, that gets significant fast.

Maybe not the antler restriction and maybe not closing cows/calves in all areas but a quota like the Antlerless deer makes sense, or even on top of that a requirement of a minimum number of tags per animal, like 3 hunters for a single bull in some areas, Quebec does it this way.

I just want to be able to see them in the future when out of a fishing trip and be able to hunt them here at some point down the road.

[bellerivercrossbowhunter]

Slippery slope!

The MNR counts on the revenue from the Moose draw to fund the budget.
The sensible thing to do & not considering financial impact is to ban shooting antlerless moose straight across the board to let them recover.
With that said the science shows the cows & calves need to be protected however for financial reasons they will keep it as it is to ensure the current revenue stream.

Very sad indeed!

[rick_iles]

Slippery slope!

The MNR counts on the revenue from the Moose draw to fund the budget.
The sensible thing to do & not considering financial impact is to ban shooting antlerless moose straight across the board to let them recover.
With that said the science shows the cows & calves need to be protected however for financial reasons they will keep it as it is to ensure the current revenue stream.

Very sad indeed!

I agree, but the issue is the unregulated hunt, IMHO. You will never get good recruitment unless unregulated hunts are “regulated”. First Nations have always enjoyed their hunts. Then along came a Supreme Court decision that now allows Métis hunters the same rights as FN. That only exacerbated the problems. Until the government gets a handle on these hunts, there will be no real increase in moose numbers, IMHO ! That’s not to mention the issues of predation. The last few years have seen a huge increase in wolf numbers in the areas we hunt in NW Ont.. Typically you can’t go anywhere without seeing wolf sign, more than ever before.

[Fox]

I agree, but the issue is the unregulated hunt, IMHO. You will never get good recruitment unless unregulated hunts are “regulated”. First Nations have always enjoyed their hunts. Then along came a Supreme Court decision that now allows Métis hunters the same rights as FN. That only exacerbated the problems. Until the government gets a handle on these hunts, there will be no real increase in moose numbers, IMHO ! That’s not to mention the issues of predation. The last few years have seen a huge increase in wolf numbers in the areas we hunt in NW Ont.. Typically you can’t go anywhere without seeing wolf sign, more than ever before.

So you think that we should not change any of the hunting regs until the FN hunt is changed? That does not make any sense, if the FN hunt is hunting them on top of non-FN hunters then you are still killing more animals and hurting the population more than just having the FN hunt.

The slippery slope is the one that leads to moose no longer being present in Ontario.

[rick_iles]

So you think that we should not change any of the hunting regs until the FN hunt is changed? That does not make any sense, if the FN hunt is hunting them on top of non-FN hunters then you are still killing more animals and hurting the population more than just having the FN hunt.

The slippery slope is the one that leads to moose no longer being present in Ontario.

We will not see any appreciable levels of recruitment until all hunting is regulated. I’ve been hunting moose over 35 years in the NW. The only real increases I have see are Wolf numbers and unregulated hunter numbers... Im sure there are contributing factors such as the lack of wood cutting, which impacts habitat and climate change. Those issues can’t be controlled.
The impact that the calf season change on moose numbers hasn’t been quantified yet. It will be interesting to know what that impact will be in the coming years. I wholeheartedly agree that cow and calf harvest numbers need to be limited further for ALL hunters...

[Gilroy]

I agree, but the issue is the unregulated hunt, IMHO. You will never get good recruitment unless unregulated hunts are “regulated”. First Nations have always enjoyed their hunts. Then along came a Supreme Court decision that now allows Métis hunters the same rights as FN. That only exacerbated the problems. Until the government gets a handle on these hunts, there will be no real increase in moose numbers, IMHO ! That’s not to mention the issues of predation. The last few years have seen a huge increase in wolf numbers in the areas we hunt in NW Ont.. Typically you can’t go anywhere without seeing wolf sign, more than ever before.

I would tend to agree with you on all your points but we really have no solid data on First Nations hunting and what numbers they are actually taking be it Metis or otherwise.I believe the MNR normally takes a 10% across the board for illegal kills/poaching.So if we take that figure off for say none native hunters we still do not have a picture for native/metis kills. I am not saying they are not a contributing factor but to what extent.The MNR should be keeping some track but pretty sure they are not.

[rick_iles]

I would tend to agree with you on all your points but we really have no solid data on First Nations hunting and what numbers they are actually taking be it Metis or otherwise.I believe the MNR normally takes a 10% across the board for illegal kills/poaching.So if we take that figure off for say none native hunters we still do not have a picture for native/metis kills. I am not saying they are not a contributing factor but to what extent.The MNR should be keeping some track but pretty sure they are not.

We are aware of one “unregulated” hunter that took 9 moose last season. There are many more similar stories. The MNRF are not even allowed to ask them if they have even seen a moose, let alone harvested one...this needs to change.