30-30 vs 308 vs 30-06 - Cast Iron Skillets

[SongDog]

Somebody better fill the deer in on how poor the ballistics are, because 125 years later, they're still being regularly killed by this cartridge. How embarrassing for a species... and people say deer can be smart. Pffft.

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Poor deer when the 30.06 and .308 came out, they thought they were safe beyond 150 yards like they were when everyone shooting old levers LOL

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[rf2]

Are these micro groove barrel 30 30s or Ballard?

Mine's a microgroove

Have you screwed around with seating depth?

No, I just went with the length that lined up the mouth with the crimp groove. I like calibres/rifles that don't take a lot of fiddling with to get good results. The best I was able to achieve with my combo was about 1.5 MOA at 100 yards. Most attempts have given 2-3 MOA, including all attempts with Leverevolution powder and the Hornady FTX bullets. So far I don't see the potential of handloading for my combo.

[Fox]

Mine's a microgroove



No, I just went with the length that lined up the mouth with the crimp groove. I like calibres/rifles that don't take a lot of fiddling with to get good results. The best I was able to achieve with my combo was about 1.5 MOA at 100 yards. Most attempts have given 2-3 MOA, including all attempts with Leverevolution powder and the Hornady FTX bullets. So far I don't see the potential of handloading for my combo.

There was an article a while ago that talked about this, apparently the max load for lever revolution powder and FTX bullets is actually faster than the factory ammo, this combo does not seem to jive well with the Marlin micro groove rifling, the guy who wrote the article said that he had to back down to the factory velocity to get good groups.

That being said 2-3 MOA is 4-6 MOA at 200 yards, so a perfectly acceptable accuracy for deer hunting in the majority of Ontario.

[Fox]

They are a sad attempt to try and increase the ballistics of lever guns. I would think the vast amount of 336, 94's have 20"barrels and not 24. They sure wont pass through the chrono with the same advertised numbers

Are you aware that there are a number of bullets that are designed to blow up inside the vitals? They kill very well but often do not exit.

Berger bullets is one that is known for this, yet nobody seems to knock their bullets. If you want a bullet to exist then use one designed for penetration, the SST is not that.

I think that you should take a quick look at the BC numbers, I know you will not but I thought I would suggest it. The .308 160gr FTX bullet has a BC of 0.330, the 150gr RN is 0.186.

The advertised numbers do not mean boo, there is a significant increase in BC, meaning a significant decrease in lost velocity and therefore a significant increase in range with a significantly flatter trajectory.

[GW11]

Poor deer when the 30.06 and .308 came out, they thought they were safe beyond 150 yards like they were when everyone shooting old levers LOL

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Haha right!

If I can see 150 yards, I bring something more suited to the task. Choices are a nice luxury, I'm sure we can all agree on that.

That being said, there aren't too many places I currently hunt with a rifle for deer that I can see 150 yards at all. Although it's been a disputed point here, I think that's the reality for most Ontario rifle deer hunters. I've hunted in WMU 5, 8, 56, 60, 73 (shotgun,ML), 74A (shotgun, ML), and 74B for deer, and the longest shot I've had was 90 yards in a clear cut with a muzzle loader.

I did learn a long time ago that you don't need to use a sledgehammer to do a claw hammer's job. Ironically, I have shot the majority of my rifle deer with a 30-06. It's a lucky gun.

None of the deer I've taken with a 30-30 seemed to notice how inferior the ballistics are. They don't seem to notice much without lungs.

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[werner.reiche]

Are you aware that there are a number of bullets that are designed to blow up inside the vitals? They kill very well but often do not exit.

Berger bullets is one that is known for this, yet nobody seems to knock their bullets. If you want a bullet to exist then use one designed for penetration, the SST is not that.

I think that you should take a quick look at the BC numbers, I know you will not but I thought I would suggest it. The .308 160gr FTX bullet has a BC of 0.330, the 150gr RN is 0.186.

The advertised numbers do not mean boo, there is a significant increase in BC, meaning a significant decrease in lost velocity and therefore a significant increase in range with a significantly flatter trajectory.

Yes - some bullets - particularly light small caliber bullets are designed for very rapid expansion.
But when your shooting a 265 grain .429 bullet at a deer - there's some expectation of controlled expansion.
Likewise with the 225 grain .44 mag. It's not even travelling very fast.

[rf2]

That being said 2-3 MOA is 4-6 MOA at 200 yards, so a perfectly acceptable accuracy for deer hunting in the majority of Ontario.

I think you mean inches, as in 2-3 inches at 100 is 4-6 inches at 200 yards. 2-3 MOA at 100 yards ideally should still be 2-3 MOA at 200 yards, unless the bullet has lost stability in between or has drifted because of wind.

I would not take a 200 yard shot at a deer with my 30-30 as it currently performs, which is why I leave it at home lately when I head out deer hunting. I have a couple of spots where a 200 yard shot is a possibility, and a few better rifles which I would feel confident using under this circumstance.

[Big Jack]

I’ve tried the point FTX and SST but with the 30-30 it doesn't make a difference to my results dealing with 3 or 4 Inches at 100 yard groups. Higher POI but who cares. Add the hunter inherent wobble and realistically groups are twice that or better without a good rest.

There are plenty of guns out there that don’t like max load velocity either. The most fun guns do.

To me accuracy at distance is the limiting factor in any gun. I shoot enough big cals to see what a pointy tip does for bullet trajectory and it really does help. Also tipped bullets seem to hold groups better downrange if the gun likes the load behind the pill.

[Fox]

I think you mean inches, as in 2-3 inches at 100 is 4-6 inches at 200 yards. 2-3 MOA at 100 yards ideally should still be 2-3 MOA at 200 yards, unless the bullet has lost stability in between or has drifted because of wind.

I would not take a 200 yard shot at a deer with my 30-30 as it currently performs, which is why I leave it at home lately when I head out deer hunting. I have a couple of spots where a 200 yard shot is a possibility, and a few better rifles which I would feel confident using under this circumstance.

Yes sorry, 4-6 inches, fast typing.

If you are not comfortable taking a shot at game a given range then don't do it, that is perfect, you need to know that you will kill that animal, not think you can.

I would not be worried with my wife's 30-30 bolt action and FTX bullets, my Win 94 though I sighted in with some 150gr RN bullets I had kicking around, I did not work hard on a load and got something decent but that gun is one that goes to spots where a 100 yard shot is max. I had 55 bullets I think to load up, they are old and I forget who made them, ha ha, so it was a quick load development and 100 yard at this time. The 170gr RN KKSP I worked a bit harder on, but the FTX are the most accurate in both our 30-30s, factory Hornady clove leafing at 100 yards.

[Fox]

Yes - some bullets - particularly light small caliber bullets are designed for very rapid expansion.
But when your shooting a 265 grain .429 bullet at a deer - there's some expectation of controlled expansion.
Likewise with the 225 grain .44 mag. It's not even travelling very fast.

They should but remember that Remington loaded up the 444 Marlin with pistol bullets for a long time.

The FTX bullet is not a penetration bullet, it is an SST, it is designed to blow up, this is what the line of bullets is for, the caliber does not matter.

The SST is a Super Shock Tip, the FTX is just an SST with a flexible tip.

They are controlled, they do not blow up until they get through the first couple inches, better than a V-max.