Moose harvests 2012-2023

[Sam Menard]

https://data.ontario.ca/dataset/deb6...moose_2023.csv

Trends over time by WMU.

[trimmer21]

I'm looking over the stats for WMU 50 where we used to have a camp. There's a 90% reduction across the board from 2012 to the present. That can't be good no matter which way we look at it.

[Sam Menard]

I'm looking over the stats for WMU 50 where we used to have a camp. There's a 90% reduction across the board from 2012 to the present. That can't be good no matter which way we look at it.

Wow, that’s a lot. What do you think is going on?

[trimmer21]

Wow, that’s a lot. What do you think is going on?

I'm not really too sure. Neighboring WMU's seem to be in the same boat,but,not nearly as extreme. From traveling through WMU 50 on the upland,deer and bear hunts,it sure isn't because the Moose population is down. They're all over the place,in fact,we've seen more Moose and Moose sign since the inception of the new regs than we've ever seen. Now,to my little pea brain,either,the reg changes and tag eliminations over the last 3 seasons has lead to a dramatic increase in population density or the bureaucrats are gaslighting the crap out of us.

[Species8472]

I'm looking over the stats for WMU 50 where we used to have a camp. There's a 90% reduction across the board from 2012 to the present. That can't be good no matter which way we look at it.

So you said "used to have a camp." Can i ask why you don't anymore? I feel like 50 is in one of those transitional areas where the culture has drastically changed in the last generation. My take is established camps are dying out as members age and the land ownership is being taken over by an influx of citiot cottagers from the GTA that are slowly progressing north as real estate prices rise and slowly but surely killing the culture with jet skis, ski boats, wake boats and 3000 square foot year round cottages on 1/2 acre lots with 60 feet of frontage. They are displacing not only the year round folks but also the seasonal outdoors hunting type. Purely anecdotal but that's my take. I have a 117 acres in Nipissing Township about 5 miles from South Bay Marina on Nip. My place is a comfortable 1200 square foot bungalow that is 3 season (i use it 4 seasons - but family has an issue snowshoeing to the outhouse - LOL) and is on a small (600 acres) lake where i own 3000 feet of frontage with total privacy and while the influx hasn't happened where i am, i can see it coming. I am old enough that it won't affect me but it will surely affect my kids.

For the record my anecdotal take on WMU 50 is based on my observations of my in-laws who have a place on Bella lake ENE of Huntsville. Been observing the changes on their lake for 40 years (i am 59 and started dating my wife when i was 19). 40 years ago i would have loved to have a place on that lake. Now i am glad that i don't and that i bought a 100km north of there on a quiet lake about the same size as Bella for peanuts.

[Matt86]

I also have in laws that live on Bella Lake, over the years we see moose, lots when bugs are out but not a lot when compared to thunder bay area where I hunt. I would say there is a healthy population in that area of 50 but it is mostly private land and not a lot of moose hunting in the area, wolfs are absolutely terrible last few years.
Think the decline in moose harvest for 50 is when went to have to draw a calf tag and wasn't issuing everyone a tag, plus decline in adult tags, The harvest percentage seems real good on bulls

[Gilroy]

So you said "used to have a camp." Can i ask why you don't anymore? I feel like 50 is in one of those transitional areas where the culture has drastically changed in the last generation. My take is established camps are dying out as members age and the land ownership is being taken over by an influx of citiot cottagers from the GTA that are slowly progressing north as real estate prices rise and slowly but surely killing the culture with jet skis, ski boats, wake boats and 3000 square foot year round cottages on 1/2 acre lots with 60 feet of frontage. They are displacing not only the year round folks but also the seasonal outdoors hunting type. Purely anecdotal but that's my take. I have a 117 acres in Nipissing Township about 5 miles from South Bay Marina on Nip. My place is a comfortable 1200 square foot bungalow that is 3 season (i use it 4 seasons - but family has an issue snowshoeing to the outhouse - LOL) and is on a small (600 acres) lake where i own 3000 feet of frontage with total privacy and while the influx hasn't happened where i am, i can see it coming. I am old enough that it won't affect me but it will surely affect my kids.

For the record my anecdotal take on WMU 50 is based on my observations of my in-laws who have a place on Bella lake ENE of Huntsville. Been observing the changes on their lake for 40 years (i am 59 and started dating my wife when i was 19). 40 years ago i would have loved to have a place on that lake. Now i am glad that i don't and that i bought a 100km north of there on a quiet lake about the same size as Bella for peanuts.

WOW once I see the old name calling "citiot cottagers" I immediately get my back up. Why do believe that a family that invests hundreds of thousands to buy lake frontage and build a 3000 squared foot home
cannot have the privilege of running their toys on the Lake. They may be killing your culture but is it any different from you now being on Aboriginal land, building your 1200 square foot bungalow and using your toys.

The only way year round folks get displaced is that somebody decides to sell their place to another person from the City, pretty sure not with a gun to their heads.

I wonder if you have taken into consideration the amount of $$$$ the so called citiots pump into the local economy and provide jobs for the locals. Tax money into the schools and other municipal services.

I am happy for you that you still have a nice peaceful place to hunt and fish but surprised you would want to deny a fellow Canadian the same rights to enjoy their place.

You will probably complain a lot more when the Ontario Government figures out a system to charge folks for the use of Crown Land and brings in a pay as you go permit system. LOL

[trimmer21]

So you said "used to have a camp." Can i ask why you don't anymore? I feel like 50 is in one of those transitional areas where the culture has drastically changed in the last generation. My take is established camps are dying out as members age and the land ownership is being taken over by an influx of citiot cottagers from the GTA that are slowly progressing north as real estate prices rise and slowly but surely killing the culture with jet skis, ski boats, wake boats and 3000 square foot year round cottages on 1/2 acre lots with 60 feet of frontage. They are displacing not only the year round folks but also the seasonal outdoors hunting type. Purely anecdotal but that's my take. I have a 117 acres in Nipissing Township about 5 miles from South Bay Marina on Nip. My place is a comfortable 1200 square foot bungalow that is 3 season (i use it 4 seasons - but family has an issue snowshoeing to the outhouse - LOL) and is on a small (600 acres) lake where i own 3000 feet of frontage with total privacy and while the influx hasn't happened where i am, i can see it coming. I am old enough that it won't affect me but it will surely affect my kids.

For the record my anecdotal take on WMU 50 is based on my observations of my in-laws who have a place on Bella lake ENE of Huntsville. Been observing the changes on their lake for 40 years (i am 59 and started dating my wife when i was 19). 40 years ago i would have loved to have a place on that lake. Now i am glad that i don't and that i bought a 100km north of there on a quiet lake about the same size as Bella for peanuts.

Ours was a Crown land camp that we took over from previous lease holders about 30 years ago. It had a permanent cabin on it that was rustic with zero frills,but,had ample room for 10 hunters at a time on the shore of a smallish no-name Splake breeder lake. We left it open for OMNRF staffers to use when they needed access. The primary reason for letting it go was unavailability of moose tags when they shut them off. Our members are getting older (ages 55-80) with zero chances of ever getting tags, again, in their lifetime with the current system. The camp was very difficult to get into ( 15 km's by truck to a sand pit parking point,5km cart track,1/2 hour by ATV only) eliminating any chance that cottagers would ever consider working heir a**es off to make the effort,besides,there's no chance a permanent structure would now be allowed. They must be portable and removed or concisely packed up when not in use. The old cabin was always in a constant state of repair and because of the remoteness, it was becoming too difficult to facilitate. Finally,just this past season,after we added up all the required work and expenses, we made the difficult to decision let it go. After the last deer season,at the end before we left,we had a work party to knock it all down and clean it up. It's too bad,but,time marches on.

[Gilroy]

Ours was a Crown land camp that we took over from previous lease holders about 30 years ago. It had a permanent cabin on it that was rustic with zero frills,but,had ample room for 10 hunters at a time on the shore of a smallish no-name Splake breeder lake. We left it open for OMNRF staffers to use when they needed access. The primary reason for letting it go was unavailability of moose tags when they shut them off. Our members are getting older (ages 55-80) with zero chances of ever getting tags, again, in their lifetime with the current system. The camp was very difficult to get into ( 15 km's by truck to a sand pit parking point,5km cart track,1/2 hour by ATV only) eliminating any chance that cottagers would ever consider working heir a**es off to make the effort,besides,there's no chance a permanent structure would now be allowed. They must be portable and removed or concisely packed up when not in use. The old cabin was always in a constant state of repair and because of the remoteness, it was becoming too difficult to facilitate. Finally,just this past season,after we added up all the required work and expenses, we made the difficult to decision let it go. After the last deer season,at the end before we left,we had a work party to knock it all down and clean it up. It's too bad,but,time marches on.

Brother, you are one of the old timers that had no problems in your youth putting in a big effort accessing these remote camps which were generational and everything done for the adventure and love of the hunt. So to Species point culture is dying out, in part because the Ontario Government are no longer giving out these permits and even if they did, how many younger hunter would put in the effort to take the time off work, put in the work weekends and so forth.

Back in the day when folks worked at "the motors" vacations were taken around hunt seasons it was a yearly vacation. At least one old guy at the camp kept a few deer hounds for the guys to use which made the hunt exciting and fun.

Sadly as you say time marches on and all we are left is memories of a much more simple and fun time without the disturbances of work, social media and assortments of devices robbing us of what is important.

[trimmer21]

Brother, you are one of the old timers that had no problems in your youth putting in a big effort accessing these remote camps which were generational and everything done for the adventure and love of the hunt. So to Species point culture is dying out, in part because the Ontario Government are no longer giving out these permits and even if they did, how many younger hunter would put in the effort to take the time off work, put in the work weekends and so forth.

Back in the day when folks worked at "the motors" vacations were taken around hunt seasons it was a yearly vacation. At least one old guy at the camp kept a few deer hounds for the guys to use which made the hunt exciting and fun.

Sadly as you say time marches on and all we are left is memories of a much more simple and fun time without the disturbances of work, social media and assortments of devices robbing us of what is important.

Yessir,absolutely right. Our hunt captain has been in constant contact with his pals who had camps in the area that closed as soon as the system switched. One lad asked "What took you so long?" LOL