Big cuts coming to Moose Tags???

[terrym]

The reality is this is a brutal winter and you risk having another just like it next year so yes they do have to react and cut tags. We can't pretend this winter never happened and everything will be normal. Every stakeholder needs to be treated equally here with cut to tags. Will they do that? Doubt it strongly.

[TurkeyRookie]

It's also interesting to take into perspective where they do the surveys, I have seen just as many moose this winter in my travels (weekly) as any other, saw a beautiful big healthy looking cow today on my way back from Chapleau (a black one not the white)

[TurkeyRookie]

With treaties as they are...the province has no power to change that as far as I know...so in planning you gotta include the population killed by FN as they would attribute to other predators like wolves and cougars.

Now I do remember reading about how the idea of unrestricted calf harvest was a bad idea but was part of the negotiation when the current lottery and tags were introduced.

absolutely I agree, I just didn't appreciate my comment being compared to that of the afformentioned as it was no where near the same thought process / intent.

Also agree that with treaties in place what I and many others would like to see happen is impossible, but it sure is hard to manage a resource when only one group is held accountable for what, when, where, and how many.

At the very least, I would like to see mandatory reporting introduced for FN, will they follow it? I can't say, only speculate, but it sure would help get a clearer picture of what's going on out there.

[Fishy Wishy]

absolutely I agree, I just didn't appreciate my comment being compared to that of the afformentioned as it was no where near the same thought process .

Well in that case you have my apologies.

[mbhunter]

I'm hearing rumours that aerial surveys have shown dismal results in some of Ontario's Moose strongholds and drastic cuts to tags are coming for this season. Some areas could get cut as much as 80%. I wish I had more information but my understanding is final numbers have not been set yet.

I'm not too surprised after Minnesota cancelled its Moose hunt last year then from what I heard Moose hunting was not very good in many places last year in Ontario. Is this the end of Moose hunting in Ontario as we know it? With Deer suffering with one of the worst winters in many years its not looking too good for big game hunting in 2014.

Interesting first post WC - where your rumours coming from? I've seen more moose on my travels this winter than I have in the past few. Plenty of sign, lots of calf tracks, etc. - even had 4 walk through they yard at the camp while we were gone.

Not blaming it entirely on them at all...

But if there is truly a problem with the herds, limiting one group, while still allowing a free for all for another, doesn't seem like sound management strategy.

Is there no reporting structure in place currently? I don't know anything about treaties so I don't know what FN have to abide by each year in terms of moose and deer harvests. We are lucky enough to draw our one adult tag per year and even luckier to fill it.

[35wailin]

AFAIK, there are no restrictions on FN harvest as long as it is within their treaty area. Ie. treaty 9 FN members ( north of watershed, Timmins, chapeau, moosenee, etc.), cannot come downtown Sudbury, (Robinson-Huron Treaty) and practice their treaty rights. They would need a valid license to follow the same limits and seasons as the rest of us. Some FNs have set internal regulations for their members, but are they enforced? Who knows? I have heard Nipissing FN state publicly that their members are not to set nets in the lake during the walleye spawn, but do all members abide by it. Again, who knows?

My wife's cousin is Métis, and he has a harvest card with restrictions on area, seasons and bag limit. He also has to report to his hunt captain about what he has harvested. That is different than what I understand the FNs.

i quite like the idea of mandatory reporting by FNs of harvest levels to better manage for everyone. We should do the same for moose, deer and bear across the province. Many states in the US do this, why can't we?

i would dearly love to see a single harvest system for ALL users of the resources and none of this "special interest" double/triple standard that we have currently.

[terrym]

I strongly believe in mandatory harvest reports of all big game kills. It is truly the only accurate way of knowing what the stats are.

[toddc]

According to Toddc they "slaughter the moose out of shear spite" then you hitched your horse to that wagon.

I have known and grown up with FN as friends and in mentor roles...certainly they never "slaughtered" ANYTHING "out of shear spite"

Im sure you know all kinds of fn that are tie wearing ,tax paying model citizens. I have a family full of full blooded native and I can tell you that as much as they cannot all be painted with the same brush as far as bad ethics it goes the same in the opposite. I have family members that go in the spring and spear steelhead by the cooler full, while the rst of us are trying to tie our little flies waiting for the opener.. I called the mnr a few years ago about the moose in the area of my camp, why do I need 15 men to get a cow tag? the answer was, well we see last years harvst, do a flyover finances permitting and guess how many the natives have taken out prior to the season.. It just so happened that they took out 11 from my immediate area.. How do I know? there machine to haul the moose out broke down and the called the mnr, who ever so nicely went in and helped them out, So you can be politicly correct, and yielding if you wish, but truth of the matter is there is a definate problem with the managment of this provinces game, and a large factor is our tolerance of those regardless of hertage that take advantage and exploit OUR natural resourse and right to harvest responsibly.

[William Cody]

Interesting first post WC - where your rumours coming from? I've seen more moose on my travels this winter than I have in the past few. Plenty of sign, lots of calf tracks, etc. - even had 4 walk through they yard at the camp while we were gone.

I believe that this has nothing to do with Moose taken by hunters. It looks more like whatever is killing off the Moose in Minnesota has come across and is starting to do the same in NW Ontario. As far as I know studies being done in Minnesota have not come to any conclusions. Their herd was hit so hard they flat out cancelled their Moose hunt last year. Also several FN tribes in Minnesota also canceled their Moose hunt as well. As I said before I have not heard any definite numbers as to how the cuts in tags will be handled as in how big will the cuts be or how widespread they will be. Could just be a few areas in the Northwest, who knows!

[player11111]

Hey guys, I know there is some confusion on first nations people and their rights to the resource. I am in a natural resource law program and we have a course explaining this. Based on treaties, case law states that priority of the resource is as follows related to hunting:

1. Protection of the resource
2. First Nations access based on treaty rights
3. General public use

In fishing, it is as follows:

1. Protection of the resource
2. First Nations access based on treaty rights/aboriginal commercial fishing
3. Commercial Fishing
4. General public use

I hope this clears it up somewhat for people...

*so this means that for the government to change the first nations harvest, they would first have to totally end the hunt by the general public