Bizarre Truth About Purebred Dogs :)

[welsh]

As I said, if you were crossing similar hunting breeds out of proven stock then you'd be breeding for that instinct. But nobody is really doing that -- your mixed breed dog has not been deliberately bred for any particular purpose -- so we're in the realm of theory here.

By the same token, if you tried to train two dozen mixed breed dogs and two dozen field-bred springers as guide dogs for the blind, you'd probably have better success with the mixed breed dogs for precisely the same reasons.

[Sharon]

Lol Cass.

Just out of curiosity Sharon, and I really hope/trust this isn't misinterpreted ( written words don't contain tone or inflection).

I can understand why "bloodlines" are important then/for you.
But maybe the question to be asked is.

Why are bloodlines important to the CKC, and various trials, shows?
God forbid a mixbreed win a trial

..............

No problem. By bloodlines of course I mean pedigree. If I'm buying a dog for a specific purpose, I want to know that the previous 3-5 generations have been healthy, free of genetic defects for that breed, and good at the skill for which I'm looking .

Not to appear "snobbish", I had a rescue GSP ( Wouldn't know a bird if it landed on its face.) and 3 JRTs of questionable breeding - just because I love JRTs and have no particular plan for them other than to enjoy. If they are hunters of groundhog etc . then that is a bonus.
.............

Got a little off topic..........

"Why are bloodlines important to the CKC, and various trials, shows?
God forbid a mixbreed win a trial." quote Mr. Ben

Because these are all competitions and Champions are the ones to whom folks want to breed. They must be sure of the pedigree, or you will get unwanted surprises in your pups.
If you win an American Field Championship ,( My favourite venue.), you must send in the dog's DNA to prove its geneology so folks who want to breed to that dog have confidence in the pedigree. ( Studs will jump mountains to get to that bithc. )

[JBen]

So if I somehow snuck a mix breed in (pick 2 suitable breeds) and it won....was far superior to the rest of the field.

Why should its DNA matter.....In fact, why wouldn't someone want to consider breeding their (X) to its (X/Y)

[Sharon]

I know you're a big reader. You need to read up on how genetics works. I can't explain it well. That X/Y dog may have done great to day, but there are 5+ generations of genes in that dog. One may be hip dysplasia, etc.that will show in the next generation of pups .

http://www.upei.ca/~cidd/intro.htm

Yes it is a crap shoot -not to say that there are ever any promises - but you want to eliminate as many surprises as possible.
PS
In American Field your win would be negated. In CKC you'd never get to register in a trial/test without a pedigree/registration number.

Don't try it. I thought you were a believer in following the rules.

[JBen]

Lol I am.

but it doesn't answer the question.
Lets say breeder has a champion stud X
and let's say breeder B has a champion Bit Y

lets say we gave them a chance to be dogs.

id jump all over one of the litter.

would you?
we know what the CKC and many others would think.

[welsh]

On occasion, cross-breeding has been authorized by breed clubs, because the number of individuals remaining is too small or to eliminate a genetic defect. For example, controlled cross-breeding of Dalmations with something-or-other was recently permitted to correct a health problem. Those cross-bred dogs are considered purebred Dalmations by the kennel club. I believe the Brittany was also cross-bred in France following the war.

Genetics is a double-edged thing: take the diversity out of the genome and you run into serious problems, but put too much in and you run into other problems. Cross a Lab and a Poodle and you get a Labradoodle; breed those Labradoodle puppies and you get a hodge-podge of who-knows-what as the recessive genes pop up.

The pups produced by X and Y would likely be fine dogs, but they'd be of little long-term value because their pups would be completely unpredictable.

[Cass]

I have nothing against mixes and have owned a few but they certainly don't have the ability that a dog that has been bred for a specific purpose does. My english cocker is the first purebred dog I have ever had from field stock and from the time I brought him home at 9 weeks I was completely blown away by his natural, in-born ability to quarter, find and flush game. The first time he ever had exposure to a bird at 4 months old was a clipped wing pigeon I threw for him and without any training whatsoever he ran out, caught it/picked it up and brought it back to me as if he had been doing it for years. As great as a mixed breed can be, until you see a dog that has been bred for generations and generations do what it was intentionally bred to do - there is without a doubt no comparison. Doesn't mean it can't happen - I saw a husky last year that was a great rabbit hunter. There are always exceptions. However I would bet that there is less than a 1% chance that dog could reproduce a replica of itself. And as someone else noted - you have no idea of the dog's genetic health (whether or not it will have bad hips, cancer, eye problems, EIC, etc.).

[Sharon]

Two Champions would have complete pedigrees with DNA proof. I wouldn't definitely jump all over those pups - if I was 30 years younger.

One Champion and one who hunts great but has no papers would never be bred by a reputable breeder -unless by accident.

Two dogs that hunt great, but neither have papers would be tempting to buy a pup from, but I would resist as I don't know what's in those years of bred genes. I also wouldn't be able to use that pup in any formal competition.

PS

If you notice, the event UGA and trkyhntr21 posted , have events for non- pedigreed hunting dogs. ( Gundog stake). They are trying to offer opportunities to show off that great , possibly non-papered dog.

"The Hunting Dog Classic in a continuous course non-sanctioned event for dogs that have no adult wins in sanctioned events. It's intended to introduce newbies to our game, come to Gladwin, run the grounds that you own as a citizen of this Great State and hopefully we set the hook on a future coverdog participant." Gladwin event

[JBen]

That's a nugget of information I wasn't aware of Welsh. Tx

[Cass]

Lol I am.

but it doesn't answer the question.
Lets say breeder has a champion stud X
and let's say breeder B has a champion Bit Y

lets say we gave them a chance to be dogs.

id jump all over one of the litter.

would you?
we know what the CKC and many others would think.

I wouldn't. What if the dog ended up really being a firecracker as you are hoping it would be? You could never run it in trials or tests because it is a mutt.