This should stop all cougar arguments

[stilchen67]

There has been CONFIRMED reports by the MNR just a few years ago of cougar scat found near the Niagara peninsula. Biologists found actual cougar hair in the scat, not mention tracks of a full sized cat and a cub in the same area. Cannot remember the name (someone help me out here) a large tract of land MNR past Calendonia near Lake Erie where tracks were found and confirmed by the MNR. I met a former CO couple of years back and he told me the only regret he had was that in all his years he never saw a cougar. When I asked him his position on the topic was he said he believed 100% that Ontario had a wild self sustaining population of big cats from the evidence he had seen over the years. A friend of mine once owned a cougar back in the late 80's told me today it is virtually impossible to purchase one today.

[JBen]

Nice post GW, though I think (could be wrong) what is meant, is that if a state with 5,000 of them, only confirms 7% of all reported sightings. That speaks to just how elusive they are. So in Oregon where theres a strong pop of Cougars, its still not every day that "hard" proof is acquired.

Quite agree this could rage on for years before hard proof of wild Cougars here in Ontario is gotten.

When you split their ranges and call it 500km. One Cougar (they are solitary) could travel over a really large area. When you consider how large Ontario is…………..

Its easy for the "naysayers" there are none, because that hard proof is still missing.
Until you do the math.

The MNR can't even tell us how many Moose they are.
*****************

Personally I think its just a matter of time. Everyone has cell phones these days, everyone wants that hard proof. It might come from a game camera but I doubt it.

There aren't enough owned to blanket an area thats 1200 sq km….let alone 5,000 to 8,000 sq km hoping to catch that one cougar that "might" be in that 8,000 sq km.

Algonquin Park if I'm not mistaken is 8,000 sq km. Even if we fenced it, dropped a Cougar in there. Good luck finding it.

How many people go missing in Ontario and are never found? Or their remains are found 20 years later. How many planes go down and aren't found? And those are planes and the search area's pretty small…(a handful of sq km vs thousands)…People get "lost" all the time, and aren't always found…Cougars are way, way way harder to find, can cover hundreds of kms in no time, than a little ol human who strayed off the trail or whose canoe washes up on shore somewhere.

[kurt tealo]

[QUOTE=GW11;824200]As a matter of fact yes, I do know a few government employees. Some work at the MNR. They would probably get quite a chuckle at the idea of a secret cougar-releasing conspiracy., I'll never buy into the idea that they were released by the MNR. It's been long established, worldwide for that matter, that introducing (or in this case re-introducing) a predator species to control a prey species just doesn't work the way it's supposed to.


Oh I didn't say it was a good idea or that it would work.And had it not come from a pretty reliable source I would have not mentioned it.She even quoted how many and the year and some release sites.But I can't remember all that now.
Puma Ontario knows of some den sites but they won't say where.
Questionable ideas happen all the time in Gov and the MNR.....
They stock salmon off breakwalls not up rivers where they can return and spawn,throw trout stocking in ditches,cancell spring bear hunts,protect wolves around Algonquin,cut Wardens,increase people and areas that dont have to follow fish and game laws,steel shot for doves,to many deer tags,not enough Moose tags and so on.
And transplant game like Elk,Turkey,Moose,pheasants and such.So cougars?Maybe.Maybe not.
And yes some of these ideas can be argued a success.


Quote-Oregon-"This is kind of going against your own argument-"

The point was-Some people seem to think if there are more then an escaped pet or two around we should all be seeing them.Well if they come up with a number of 7% from a known healthy population.Then very few people are going to see them around here if there aren't many around.Which there are not.
So maybe they are moving in like we have seen bears and Moose do.And historically they were once native here way back they say.Back when my dad was a kid in Flamborough there were no geese,very few deer,no turkeys,no coyotes.And now.....
Maybe something to the MNR bit.
Might be the odd escaped pet.But I buy that idea the least when you start to see the frequency and number of years that this has been going on.45 or more that I have heard the odd tale.And they guess that 10% of sighting are actually reported.

[kurt tealo]

An alarming percentage of people believe we have been visited by aliens.

We are the only planet of millions with life?Have sent people to the moon but no one else can?Off topic I know.

[kurt tealo]

And why would the MNR secretly release cougars? To control the deer? ---Why would they do that, when they could give out more antler less tags, extend the seasons and sell additional deer tags at $30 - $40 a pop? Maybe it was to control the fishers and rattlesnakes that they secretly released. Sorry man…. it doesn't add up. Help me out here.

Good points but upping tags gets all the antis screaming which out number us to politicians.Hunting and car accidents are the best weapons down here and they dont love either publically.Weather is to mild and I don't think coyotes get that many.To small and dont hunt in packs as much as wolves.Up North the winters and Timber wolves do just a fine job of keeping them down.And less vehicles driving around to hit them and get insurance companies screaming and rates high.
Oh sure it's a stretch and I would not have come up with that one on my own.But thats what I heard for what it is.

[blasted_saber]

When MNR releases turkeys and elk or stocks fish its done to sell licenses as much as re-establish extirpated species. These animals in effect pay for themselves. MNR wouldnt make a penny off of cougars. Their budget is shrinking every year. Where are they finding funds to support this? Releasing cougars would be an enormous expense.

[300Sniper]

Well, when is the last time you heard about a wolf seating in the middle of a parking lot looking at the crowd? Or having a good time between the north and southbound line of the hwy. 11 in the middle of the day?

We see road kill all the time, moose, bear, deer, wolves, fox, coons, bunnies, skunks ect ect ect. Are we to assume that theses animals are all pets and were waiting by the roadside to be picked up by their owners after enjoying some fresh air?

Wild animals interact with people all the time. I find the exception to be when you are actually hunting for them :-)

[kurt tealo]

When MNR releases turkeys and elk or stocks fish its done to sell licenses as much as re-establish extirpated species. These animals in effect pay for themselves. MNR wouldnt make a penny off of cougars. Their budget is shrinking every year. Where are they finding funds to support this? Releasing cougars would be an enormous expense.

She didnt say it was to make money or increase any populations.Just the opposite.And they did it "once".And years ago when cutbacks were not as severe.Or so the story goes.

[kurt tealo]

We see road kill all the time, moose, bear, deer, wolves, fox, coons, bunnies, skunks ect ect ect. Are we to assume that theses animals are all pets and were waiting by the roadside to be picked up by their owners after enjoying some fresh air?

Wild animals interact with people all the time. I find the exception to be when you are actually hunting for them :-)

Good points.See lots of coyotes,deer,moose and bears standing by the road.The odd wolf even.Don't think any of them are escaped pets.

[perchman55]

Seen one in 93 while hunting moose in Kirkland lake area crossing logging road right after a heavy rain.