Flat-coat Retriever ???

[krakadawn]

Field to what level?

Would be good to know.

[NorthernGrouse]

What an informative, interesting thread this is. Thank you all for your input.

I am now so confused about what would be best for me that I may just get a cat .... NOT

Martin

[Longgun]

Why don't you go and visit some of the kennels and see the dogs first hand.
deb

[welsh]

Let me muddy the waters further by giving my 2 cents, as the owner of an "off-brand" dog....

There is a lot of pressure to go with the proven field breeds -- Labs, Springers, etc. -- because they're well known. We all know what a Lab can do. They're popular because they're proven. When you get some off-brand dog, it can be a bit of a crap shoot. You may get a good dog, or you may get a dud. So there's a natural tendency to push you towards a better known breed.

I don't think you should discount the importance of that for a first dog. Breeds differ -- there's a saying, "You train a Springer; you negotiate with a Cocker," for example. It helps to have a dog that lots of people have worked with. If you run into training problems you can rest assured you will find people who have seen it before. And this is to say nothing of the qualities of the dog itself, which are more predictable when you're dealing with the popular breeds. So get a popular breed.

You will often see negative opinions of lesser known breeds out of people who have seen them work. This, I take with a grain of salt. Those opinions are often based on only a couple of dogs, and what's more, they're usually based on whether breed B is just like breed A. For example, the Springer has set the standard in the field for a century, since fashions changed and the Clumber fell from favour. Any dog that doesn't hunt with a Springer's speed and dash is held to be inferior, regardless of its other qualities. We mistake style for ability; sometimes the faults we see are not really important. My dog is too slow to get past the first series in a trial. On the other hand, my freezer is full of birds and I like the way the dog hunts -- speed avails a flusher nothing in a woodcock covert. So go ahead and get a rare breed.

On the other other hand, breed descriptions are full of hooey. All dogs are "loyal and affectionate," according to their fanciers. The Welsh is "aloof with strangers," which can only mean that my dog has never met a stranger, since I've never known her to be aloof. Don't assume that because the breed club declares that the Flatcoat is exuberant and friendly that yours will be.

I think the bottom line is, the popular breeds are popular for good reasons. If you're going to get something else, make sure you see the dogs work first, talk to some people who own them, and know what you're getting into.

[yellow dog]

Well said Andrew I can always appreciate your fairness,good intentions and honesty.

[krakadawn]

Pretty good post there Welsh, what I would add is to also see what exists such that your comparison has substance and merit. Try to be very clear if the chosen dog can and will live up to your expectations. Yes for sure see them work if the dog is destined to becoming a working dog along with a long list of acceptable and predictable traits.

[Sharon]

Field to what level?

Would be good to know.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I talked to the lady by e mail. ( slow day )
She does : "I do a lot of dog training both for competition obedience and pet dog training.
I do a lot of e collar training for problem pets obedience work owners particularly.
Only field tests her own dogs occasionally.

[Sharon]

Seems to be some PMs flying back and forth.

My purpose in posting this was not to prove anyone right or wrong. We are all wrong sometimes.

the lesson:

1/ Do your own homework as Northern Grouse has so well shown, and buyer beware.

2/ Take things said on a forum with a grain of salt.

3/ SOME breeders get their breeding stock a CKC FDJR in order to say their stock is a hunting line. This is not enough to prove your dog is going to hunt.

4/ See the parents work before buying a pup if at all possible.

* Others can add more to this list for sure. Health clearances haven't been mentioned at all yet much.

[NorthernGrouse]

1/ Do your own homework as Northern Grouse has so well shown, and buyer beware.

Thank you Sharon. I am putting a ridiculous amount of time into this decision for two equally important reasons:

1. so that I get the best breed for my life style and hunting objectives
2. so that the dog I get is just as happy with me as I am with her

This is a multi-year commitment that I am taking very seriously.


Martin

[welsh]

3/ SOME breeders get their breeding stock a CKC FDJR in order to say their stock is a hunting line. This is not enough to prove your dog is going to hunt.

This seems to be common in the States, and it's one reason that their hunt test standards are lower (for spaniels, anyway). There's a big difference between breeders who put junior hunt test titles on their dogs, and breeders who actually hunt over their dogs....