Flat-coat Retriever ???

[yellow dog]

Hey Andrew have you been out 3 or 4 times this year with your spaniel ? LOL

[krakadawn]

Geez YD, I see you haven't lost any of the sarcasm have you?
Maybe just contribute.........

[krakadawn]

"field trial lines have the best chance of getting drive and health" quote Krakadawn

Not convinced. Have to think on that.

Best ? Hmmm

For me drive and health can also be found in a breeding from a good hunt test pedigree.

What separates a good test dog (FDX) from a field trial winner is range not drive or health.

PS Realize these posts are off the OPs topic but he has said that he has the info he needs now.

Read this the other day which gave me lots to think on:

A fellow was asked how he would decide whether a young dog would be kept for trialing etc ..

............some of what it will take I can already see like (in no particular order),brains, nose and desire to find birds, endurance, nice gait, good skeleton(with balance), boldness/courage, high tail, good hearing, good eyesight,calmness (un-excitable) yet energetic, eager to please, etc.........What I hopeto see is power, speed, unrelenting drive to hunt and locate birds, extremeendurance (lots of bottom), bird sense, toughness under any circumstance, GUTS,grace, feminine features, disease free....and more. quote SCT

Sharon, what you say may be accurate for the pointing dog world but in the world of retrievers my comments stand. EIC and CNM were brought about through the involvement of the field trial world....folks like Marilyn Fender, Sue Taylor etc

These health clearances did not come out of the obedience/show world at all.

Most Hunt test people have dogs with strong field trial breeding.

Your issue of range vs drive and health again is applicable to bird dogs as per your example. This is not even an issue for us as most discussions would focus on attributes like marking, lining, memory, sagacity, team efforts.

Different worlds? Maybe...maybe not....

[Cass]

What book did you read ?

I do not have time nor a solid wifi connection right now to get into another urination match on here. I will try to read through these posts though in more detail when I am back in Canada next week.

[bardern]

there are a lot more experianced and knowledgeable dog people than me out there but I think the biggest differance in field trial v hunt test dogs is the stream the owner takes that particular dog down.

OP I have had clients with Flat Coats and they where great field dogs, I really enjoyed watching them work. The owners did say it is a challenge firstly finding a good blood line and secondly having the where for all to properly train them. They were both in the hunt test stream and I believe their dogs had their finished levels.

[yellow dog]

It was a joke Cass.

[yellow dog]

Well krakadawn if your looking for sarcasm then reread 3Blackdogs comment about spaniels. It seems you pick and choose who you protect. Also your latest contribution or recommendations have all been points already presented by all other forum memebers on this thread. This is not sarcasm but the truth.

[Sharon]

Sharon, what you say may be accurate for the pointing dog world but in the world of retrievers my comments stand. EIC and CNM were brought about through the involvement of the field trial world....folks like Marilyn Fender, Sue Taylor etc

These health clearances did not come out of the obedience/show world at all.

***Most Hunt test people have dogs with strong field trial breeding.

Your issue of range vs drive and health again is applicable to bird dogs as per your example. This is not even an issue for us as most discussions would focus on attributes like marking, lining, memory, sagacity, team efforts.

Different worlds? Maybe...maybe not....

Excellent points for me to consider. The *** particularly.
,,,,,,,,,,,,

[welsh]

Okay, well, I see this thread has become fully asinine.

[krakadawn]

Well krakadawn if your looking for sarcasm then reread 3Blackdogs comment about spaniels. It seems you pick and choose who you protect. Also your latest contribution or recommendations have all been points already presented by all other forum memebers on this thread. This is not sarcasm but the truth.

I just did...do you consider it sarcastic because he mentioned hunting 3-4 times a year or the fact that he referred to your comment about preference for a rarer breed(which by the way a springer is not). Guess you need to address this to Chris and let him respond....I can't and won't speak for him.

By the way, not sure where that comment about protecting people came from? You may confuse support/agreement for specific comments as that but sure as hell is not protecting. I see Cass is looking for a piece of you...he'll speak for himself.

So my recent comments have all been said previously in this thread??? What are you drinking? I can't recall any previous mention of the 2 individuals I named and gave credit to for their research on both EIC and CNM. I see no previous mention about FT pedigrees in HT dogs. You might consider talking to some of the folks who strongly campaign their dogs in HTs and inquire about pedigree 'thinking'.

I believe you are lacking in pertinent knowledge about FT dogs since you don't and haven't ever campaigned dogs in retriever trials let alone done any judging in them. You might be well advised to get your feet wet in some game .Learning curves can be challenging and exciting, hope you do well with your springer.