Slug Shotgun vs. Large Calibre Rifle

[fratri]

I think shotgun/muzzle-loader deer control hunts are a good thing... Way too many guys and farm houses around my area for gangs of rifle hunters.

Get yourself a .22 and combo shotgun and you will be set for most game in Ontario....

[dutchhunter]

you would real have to step up to a big rifle to have the same inpact at 50 yards that a 12 slug would have .anybody have the numbers of what a 12g slug will compare to in a rifle cal at 50 yards .

[Species8472]

you would real have to step up to a big rifle to have the same inpact at 50 yards that a 12 slug would have .anybody have the numbers of what a 12g slug will compare to in a rifle cal at 50 yards .

Not sure at 50 yards but at the muzzle a 12 gauge (3 inch chamber) slug could be anywhere from 2500 ft-lbs to over 3000 ft-lbs KE depending on the style and manufacturer. That puts the KE on par at the muzzle with say a 30-06. I think the large diameter of the slug also enhances knockdown power (at close range) as it provides for a more efficient transfer of KE to the animal.

[Big Jack]

Hey Everyone,

I have been reading another current thread going on about the merits of a 12ga vs 20ga slug shotgun for shooting deer. I didn't want to highjack that thread so I though I would ask my question here instead:

Why would one use a 12ga or 20ga shotgun with slugs over a larger calibre rifle? I hear that 20ga are pretty accurate out to about 150 yards however a lot of rifles can hit out to 300 yards (adduming the shooter is skilled enough). Is it just a versatility issue where you can use a shotgun for other hunts as well (unless it is rifled)?

I would really like to hear your feedback

Three hundred yards is no easy feet with a rifle. Experience will teach you that. Many rifles don't do 200 yards well either.

Regardless of what you choose, practice is what makes the difference as long as the firearm is capable of shooting to those distances.

Others have pointed out where you hunt has a lot to do with your choice.

If you choose a slug gun then buy a good 20 gauge. I know you were looking at my 12 slugger but that isn't the right choice IMO. The 20 gauge sluggers are good to 200 yards. At least almost every one of mine were if I did my part.

If rifles are allowed get something in 270 and you are covered. As a friend of mine used to say from a mouse to a moose. No contest as sabot slugs run $3 a shot versus a decent rifle round at $1.25 a round.

IMO just get out shooting as much as possible.

[Fox]

you would real have to step up to a big rifle to have the same inpact at 50 yards that a 12 slug would have .anybody have the numbers of what a 12g slug will compare to in a rifle cal at 50 yards .

20ga slugs are on par with factory loaded 45-70.
12ga slugs are about the same as a 308 150gr.

These are sabot slugs.

Dumb slugs start in 12ga start out with about 2800 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle but lose it fast, down to 2000 at 25 yards and 1452 at 50 yards.
The 20ga starts at 1860 ft lbs at the muzzle, 1330 at 25 yards, 982 at 50 yards.
The crazy thing is that the 410 3" slug starts out at 783 at the muzzle, 553 at 25 yards and 393 at 50 yards, these numbers are higher than the 357 Mag (535, 483, 440) out to about 40 yards.

I still wonder why we cannot use pistol cartridge rifles with plugged magazines for deer in SW Ontario, they are mush less dangerous at long range than the high velocity slugs on the market today.

[werner.reiche]

you would real have to step up to a big rifle to have the same inpact at 50 yards that a 12 slug would have .anybody have the numbers of what a 12g slug will compare to in a rifle cal at 50 yards .

At 50 yards a 12 ga slug (non-sabot) has lost a lot of energy. Most .30 cal (even the .30-30 with 170gr loads come close) and bigger rifles will have more energy at 50 yards than a 12 ga slug.

[Big Jack]

Where did these numbers come from? They make no sense as the 20 gauge would have nothing at 100 yards. I have punched clean through a big buck at 125 yards taking 4 ribs along with it.

This does not equate.

[Pat32rf]

Now let's look at momentum instead of energy, which places greater value on speed versus weight....Suddenly all the values change....
A lot of the high energy bullets have trouble dumping that energy before they leave the animal so might only impart half of it.

[werner.reiche]

Now let's look at momentum instead of energy, which places greater value on speed versus weight....Suddenly all the values change....
A lot of the high energy bullets have trouble dumping that energy before they leave the animal so might only impart half of it.

Momentum favours weight over speed - so slugs will get a more favourable comparision to rifles using it - but it isn't usually used in such comparisons.

Re numbers: Hard to get a good table of slug ballistics. This information is from chuckhawks - foster styled slugs.
"Conventional Foster type rifled slugs generally weigh 1 ounce in 12 gauge, 4/5 ounce in 16 gauge, 5/8 ounce in 20 gauge, and 1/5 ounce (or 87 grains) in .410 gauge. The 12 gauge slug has an advertised muzzle velocity (MV) of 1560 fps from a 2 3/4" high-brass shell, 1680 fps from a 2 3/4" Magnum shell, or 1760 fps from a 3" Magnum shell. These are Remington figures from their 2004 catalog. The MV's of the other gauges are similar.

The catalog energy figures for the common high-brass ("maximum") 12 gauge slug load are an impressive 2361 ft. lbs. at the muzzle, but only 926 ft. lbs. at 100 yards. This is due to the very poor BC of the slug. Sighted to hit dead on at 50 yards, that slug is 4.8" low at 100 yards. The more powerful 12 gauge slugs are only marginally better, and kick noticeably harder. No matter what, rifled slugs remain a short range proposition.

Stick with 12 gauge Foster type slugs for deer hunting as the smaller gauges pack much less punch. The 20 gauge slug develops only 648 ft. lbs. of energy at 100 yards, which given its low SD is not encouraging. I have done some testing with .410 rifled slugs and they are definitely not adequate deer loads. The less said about these small bore rifled slugs the better."

[trimmer21]

After doing a cursory ballistics chart check,it looks like 45/70 holds much more velocity and energy out to 200yds than a 12ga. sabot slug,after which the slug is in the dirt. It was just a quick Google check. Maybe someone can go into more detail.