Slug Shotgun vs. Large Calibre Rifle

[arvanlaar]

Wow it seems like this has took a technical turn which is fantastic! A little over my head right now but I am looking up terms that are being thrown out and doing some additional research to stay on top of what all you brainiacs are saying haha. Keep it coming!

Just an FYI I do have a .22 already. My brother in laws got me a Savage 64G for my wedding present. My wife's family are huge hunters so now I need to step up and do my part in the family hunts lol.

[Big Jack]

Werner - my comments were aimed toward fox.


Rifled slugs are certainly a 100 yard game. Sabots are not

[greatwhite]

?????

Your saying slugs are more accurate then a sabot coming out of a rifled slug barrel??

Generally a rifled slug was considered a 50 - 75 yard and Sabots out to 150 - 200.

Werner - my comments were aimed toward fox.


Rifled slugs are certainly a 100 yard game. Sabots are not

[werner.reiche]

No he's saying rifled slugs are up to 100 yards - sabots work at longer ranges.

I guess one thing that needs to be cleared up in any slug discussion is what we are talking about - foster styled vs brenneke styled vs sabots. All different.

[Big Jack]

Exactly. Then throw in the all / mixed copper bullets with wide ranging BC and there you have a real wide range of results.

[Fox]

Werner - my comments were aimed toward fox.


Rifled slugs are certainly a 100 yard game. Sabots are not

Go look at a ballistics chart, the 20ga rifled slug has very little energy.

It is a wide slug with a short length, it has a very bad ballistic coefficient and sheds velocity quickly.
E=1/2m * v^2

When you lose speed you lose energy a lot faster than when you lose mass.

You also have to look at 20ga vs 12ga, 20ga slugs and 12ga slugs will even out down range due to a smaller diameter and therefore better ballistic coefficient.

Sabots:
The Hornady SST slug in 20ga has 1212 fps and 815 ft-lbs of energy at 200 yards.
The Winchester 3" slug in 20ga has 1341 fps and 1037 ft-lbs of energy at 200 yards.
The Hornady SST slug in 12ga has 1341 fps and 1198 ft-lbs of energy at 200 yards.

Rifled Slugs:
The Winchester Super-X Slug in 20ga has 748 fps and 407 ft-lbs of energy at 200 yards.
The Winchester Super-X Slug in 20ga has 763 fps and 565 ft-lbs of energy at 200 yards.

For Comparison:
The Winchester Super-X in 30-30 Win - 170gr - has 1604 fps and 970 ft-lbs at 200 yards.
The Winchester Super-X in 45-70 - 300gr - has 1414 fps and 1331 ft-lbs at 200 yards.

To prove Ballistic Coefficient lets look at Lever Revolution Ammunition, which has a minimal increase in muzzle velocity.
The Hornady 30-30 - 325gr - has 1916 fps and 1304 ft-lbs at 200 yards.
The Hornady 45-70 - 325gr - has 1450 fps and 1516 ft-lbs at 200 yards.

The 20ga sabot slug to 45-70 comparison is actually not a bad one, based on the standard loading (light) for factory 45-70 round. The idea though is that the slug in a 20ga sabot is normally about .45 caliber, it is a pistol style bullet and has a very similar ballistic coefficient to that of the 45-70.

[Fox]

Exactly. Then throw in the all / mixed copper bullets with wide ranging BC and there you have a real wide range of results.

Exactly

No he's saying rifled slugs are up to 100 yards - sabots work at longer ranges.

I guess one thing that needs to be cleared up in any slug discussion is what we are talking about - foster styled vs brenneke styled vs sabots. All different.

There are tons of options, a lot of them won't hit where you are aiming with your gun.

If you can find a 3" sabot slug that shoots accurately in your gun for the average shooter (under 200 yards) there is no need for anything besides the 20ga for deer. The only advantage to any of the other guns is more rounds in the magazine.

A 12ga does not really do much more for you besides being able to use your duck gun. The 12ga sabot slug is about equal to the 3in 20ga at long range and is not needed at shorter ranges. I use a 12ga because I do not yet have a 20ga, I know that it is heavy and kicks like a mule. My fiancee's 20ga with remington slugger slugs is not the most accurate and we know it will lose velocity fast, but up to 50 yards it will smack the pie plate every time and with the clamp on sights will do that every time. It is light to carry and she can shoot it no problem, she is only 5'1".

[Kilo Charlie]

20ga slugs are on par with factory loaded 45-70.
12ga slugs are about the same as a 308 150gr.

These are sabot slugs.

Dumb slugs start in 12ga start out with about 2800 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle but lose it fast, down to 2000 at 25 yards and 1452 at 50 yards.
The 20ga starts at 1860 ft lbs at the muzzle, 1330 at 25 yards, 982 at 50 yards.
The crazy thing is that the 410 3" slug starts out at 783 at the muzzle, 553 at 25 yards and 393 at 50 yards, these numbers are higher than the 357 Mag (535, 483, 440) out to about 40 yards.

I still wonder why we cannot use pistol cartridge rifles with plugged magazines for deer in SW Ontario, they are mush less dangerous at long range than the high velocity slugs on the market today.

Fox, did you see the ENERGY figures for the .410 slug? They have about the energy at the muzzle that a 170-grain .30-30 has at 300 yards.

[standup]

Fox, did you see the ENERGY figures for the .410 slug? They have about the energy at the muzzle that a 170-grain .30-30 has at 300 yards.

Ya and both marginal for anything greater in size than the common gopher. Ya I know. The thuddy thuddy has killed more deer than anything else. Babe Ruth also holds the home run record. You know who also holds the record for most strike outs? (Hint, same name). When Your the only gun in the bush, which for a very long time the thuddy was, of course You'll have the highest kill numbers. They also have the highest wound numbers too. Neither one would ever be pointed at an animal I intended to harvest

[standup]

After doing a cursory ballistics chart check,it looks like 45/70 holds much more velocity and energy out to 200yds than a 12ga. sabot slug,after which the slug is in the dirt. It was just a quick Google check. Maybe someone can go into more detail.

Ya and if that's not factory loaded to trapdoor pressure (which all factory is), but rather it's come off a hand loader's bench with a 350 grain hard cast slug barreling out at 2200 fps, it's significantly different