Handgun carrying on your own property? bear defense.

[JoePa]

Just a shot guys - man am I glad that I live in the good old US of A - where freedom rings - and I can own and carry whenever I want to - just got my renewed right to carry permit - good for 5 years and recognized in 29 different states - just having that right makes me feel good - I do feel for you guys with all your gun restrictions - I really mean it - your buddy JoePa

[Pat32rf]

I think BB is just all bark and is really a down to earth guy. If I was ever up that way he is someone I would love to meet. I am sure I could learn a lot from him.

I hear he gives lessons in wood piling......

[greatwhite]

No wood pile on the car this year.

I hear he gives lessons in wood piling......

[mooboy76]

Personally I'd rather see that money going to the NFA who have more skin in the game.

Different goals sometimes require different tactics. How do you present a 'grassroots' movement if it comes from a professional organization? The NFA is currently doing their best work in their legal challenges, this is not quite the same.

[Bluebulldog]

Different goals sometimes require different tactics. How do you present a 'grassroots' movement if it comes from a professional organization? The NFA is currently doing their best work in their legal challenges, this is not quite the same.

1. I don't see this as a "different goal". It involves firearms legislation, and amending same. Something which the NFA has already been lobbying, and has the legal chops to do so.

2. This "grassroots movement" you're referring to has no identifiable mandate. Other than a slick website where donations can be made, and some info on bear attacks, there isn't much substance there. There is no identifiable board of directors, or any actual human names associated with this organization. It is particularly suspect that they haven't sustained any endorsement from an organization like the NFA ( which is free, just saying that we agree with this policy). Nor have they sustained any support or identifiable supporting organizations, other than a few websites and organizations listed. Even their Facebook feed has very little info.

3. There seems to be very little mentioned about this at all. In any reputable venue, save forums like this.


It is for the aforementioned reasons why I think that this would be a "splitting the pie" approach to firearms in Canada. As stated, the NFA already advocates for all firearms owners, and if identified as a viable issue to take to task by its members, the NFA certainly has more going for it, other than a thought, and a website. Given the legal scope involved, persons donating to it have nothing to show for their money, except a vague promise that once they get $150K the ball will get rolling. This organization is also not registered for not for profit status ( I just checked).

[welsh]

They raised the $10,000 retainer for the lawyer in about a week!

What do they think they can do with a lawyer?

If you want to open up wilderness carry, you have to change the law. Challenging the law on the basis of your S. 7 right to security of the person is a non-starter. The courts have ruled on numerous similar arguments, always with the same result. Regulating firearms does not violate your S. 7 rights.

[topher]

I think BB is just all bark and is really a down to earth guy. If I was ever up that way he is someone I would love to meet. I am sure I could learn a lot from him.

I think bb is really a closet sweet heart... I have a feeling he wears tights, and has an umbrella... p

[mooboy76]

1. I don't see this as a "different goal". It involves firearms legislation, and amending same. Something which the NFA has already been lobbying, and has the legal chops to do so.

The NFA has lots on their plate already, plus this is not a new issue. People have been complaining and grumbling about ATC-3 inconsistencies and issues for years. Another firearms owner set up his own Wilderness handgun carry information campaign and website a couple of years ago, to bring awareness to the issue and try to get support, without much traction.

Yet, I have never read anything regarding ATC-3 and wilderness protection/carry out of the NFA offices. I don't know that it is even on their radar.

Someone has decided to take on this specific issue, outside of their regular employment, and is gaining momentum with support. At this point, it doesn't look like they need the NFA for what they are planning.

2. This "grassroots movement" you're referring to has no identifiable mandate. Other than a slick website where donations can be made, and some info on bear attacks, there isn't much substance there.

They have objectives; a bit vague, but I doubt they will lay out their strategy on the website.

OUR MISSION

http://www.wildernessprotection.ca/about-us/
To ensure that all outdoor enthusiasts across Canada are offered equal opportunity as citizens to protect their own and other human life during the occurrence of a dangerous animal encounter.

OUR OBJECTIVES

To collaborate with outdoor enthusiasts and organizations across Canada in order to create a unified, powerful and effective movement.

To advocate for the equal right for all Restricted Possession & Acquisition License holders to carry a legal registered holstered handgun on rural and Crown land where a dangerous animal encounter is possible.

To educate about prevention and avoidance strategies that pertain to dangerous animal encounters and the best way to survive an attack via all means possible including a handgun.

To lobby politicians and public officials encouraging them to care about and defend our goals. To remind them that our intrinsic rights in this regard are granted and clarified in the Canadian Charter of Rights & Freedoms sections 7, 12 & 15.

To take action in a legal manner that works effectively towards policy or legislative change in order to reclaim our right to carry a legal registered handgun on rural and Crown land for wilderness protection of human life.

There is no identifiable board of directors, or any actual human names associated with this organization. It is particularly suspect that they haven't sustained any endorsement from an organization like the NFA ( which is free, just saying that we agree with this policy). Nor have they sustained any support or identifiable supporting organizations, other than a few websites and organizations listed. Even their Facebook feed has very little info.

The last I read, they were putting together the BoD, but I haven't seen an update on that. As for the NFA, or other like group, endorsement, I think that was covered previously. Even adding a 'stamp of approval' from a professional organization could taint the fact that this is an issue being raised by Joe Blow Canuck.

Can't find it on the website, but Joe Blow Canuck is Steve Boissoin in AB, working in modular home designs and sales.

The laywer handling this, and the firm holding the funds in trust, is Gerry Chipeur at Miller Thomson, LLP

http://www.millerthomson.com/en/our-...rald-d-chipeur

I've read indirectly that Ed Burlew supports this initiative (other forum post by his also-lawyer wife), but you are right that there does not yet appear to be a list of supporting organizations. Wilderness Rod & Tackle in Red Deer, Alberta, is the company that has donated the three rifle/scope packages so far.

3. There seems to be very little mentioned about this at all. In any reputable venue, save forums like this.

That's true, and it may be due the fact that this whole thing kicked off at the end of October of this year; the website is three weeks old - set up with the initial donations after the retainer, and the facebook group is only two months old.

Nothing wrong with being wary though.

It is for the aforementioned reasons why I think that this would be a "splitting the pie" approach to firearms in Canada. As stated, the NFA already advocates for all firearms owners, and if identified as a viable issue to take to task by its members, the NFA certainly has more going for it, other than a thought, and a website. Given the legal scope involved, persons donating to it have nothing to show for their money, except a vague promise that once they get $150K the ball will get rolling. This organization is also not registered for not for profit status ( I just checked).

The pie is already split, and it doesn't look like anybody is eating this piece. The NFA is not a panacea for firearms issues, they have their strengths and are playing to them right now. The NFA also seems to be on the outs with the some key politicians, and their message might be muted because of that.

Hopefully the updates are forthcoming soon for the Canadian Wilderness Protection Initiative, so that people can have that transparency and reassurance that is currently lacking.

What do they think they can do with a lawyer?

If you want to open up wilderness carry, you have to change the law. Challenging the law on the basis of your S. 7 right to security of the person is a non-starter. The courts have ruled on numerous similar arguments, always with the same result. Regulating firearms does not violate your S. 7 rights.

Honestly, I don't know what their strategy is. Other than it has now entered phase two, with an introduction-type letter campaign. I don't like that the letter campaign includes a ringing endorsement of C-42, but amendments at committee are still an option, as are regulations of the Act. If C-42 actually ascends, then there are always options for further amendments to the Firearms Act in a later Parliamentary session.
First Letter Campaign
http://www.wildernessprotection.ca/be-heard/


The lawyer's accolades seem to suggest that he is professional, so I don't think he would take this on if he thought it was a damp squib:

http://www.millerthomson.com/en/our-...rald-d-chipeur

• Bachelor of Laws (1984) and Master of Laws (1990) from University of Alberta Law School
• Past Chair and Co-chair for a number of Canadian Bar Association committees, including the national Constitutional and Human Rights Law Section and the Canada for Tomorrow Committee of the Alberta Branch of the Canadian Bar Association
• Member, Federal Judicial Advisory Committee for Alberta, 2006-2008
• Served as an adjunct professor at Canadian University College, 1993-1997
• Appointed Queen’s Counsel, 2006
• Awarded Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal in 2012 for public service to Canada
• The Canadian Legal Lexpert® Directory, Litigation - Public, 2014

Like I wrote above, it is good to be wary, but I think it would be a good thing if this got initiative got some legs.

I have not donated yet, but will after my second January pay.

Looks like this topic is in another thread now, I will post my reply in both in case you want to reply in that thread.

http://www.oodmag.com/community/show...ry-in-the-Bush