B.C. Wildlife Federation says hunters furious

[Bushmoose]

The moose population in these remote areas is intact but could be unstabalized by the many 1000's of easterners that flock here each fall, tripping all over each other and in the end getting nothing.

Easy to blame the outfitter when......

The only places that have a population problem is where access is everywhere. These remote areas that an outfitter has been for decades are doing fine for moose. Why, because of limited access.

Outfitters have been in business for decades for a reason, they know how to manage a population.

Stop blaming the outfitter and look at yourself and your very POOR attitude!!

Werner.reiche, your ignorance of the facts is apparent in your posts.

Werner.reiche, you haven't thrown any truth out there yet!!

All you do is RANT about outfitters. It's apparent you have a problem with outfitters making a living, it shows!!

Chris, as I said before, perhaps you are on the wrong forum. Your attempt at credibility is gone. You swooped in as the know it all about the bear hunting issue and now you try to impress the mass's with your ridiculous and ignorant comments towards anyone who challenges you on your stance about outfitters. . Give it up and go away please? You'll feel better, we'll feel better! Oh, and don't worry, we'll refund your initiation fee.

[chris lavoie]

Taxpayers have already paid for those roads through grants to the logging industry from OMNR,therefore,taxpayers should have unrestricted use which OntOra and the OFAH are screaming about. For a minute,there,I was wondering if you meant that all outfitters had their own "exclusive" hunting areas. By "exclusive",I mean vast sections of Crown land reserved specifically for outfitters. Don't EVER hold your breathe waiting for that to happen. LOL

Non-resident hunters who stay at my place pay at least $300.00 in HST each. This helps pay for your HWY infrastructure and our health care. I will not go away!!!

Bushmoose , the problem will not go away by me leaving. Maybe an attitude change by you might help though!!

[werner.reiche]

Pine Acres Hunting Camp
Bear Hunting

PLAN #1 - American Plan (Boat & Motor)
Price: $1525.00 (taxes & licenses extra)
PLAN #2
Price: $1195.00 (taxes & licenses extra)

Wolf Hunting
Price: $850.00 (taxes & licenses extra)

That doesn't work out to $300 for HST.

[werner.reiche]

Pine Acres Hunting Camp
Bear Hunting

PLAN #1 - American Plan (Boat & Motor)
Price: $1525.00 (taxes & licenses extra)
PLAN #2
Price: $1195.00 (taxes & licenses extra)

Wolf Hunting
Price: $850.00 (taxes & licenses extra)

That doesn't work out to $300 for HST.

...and even if it were $300 - that's less than 1/10th what I pay for property taxes on a small bungalow, never mind federal and provincial income taxes, and HST on everything I buy all year...it's what most people would call "insignificant". Not sure why you'd point it out other than to PO everyone who gets hit 365 days/year with income, property and HST taxes.

[chris lavoie]

$14.00 on tank of gas each time they fill up, they usually fill up 2 times, 4 fill ups if they drive a DODGE.

$198.00 for HST on $1525.00. $37.50 HST on Bear license & fishing license. Night at motel before arrival, restaurant tabs, souvenirs, repair on vehicles etc. This is for 6 days of visiting Ontario.

[trimmer21]

$14.00 on tank of gas each time they fill up, they usually fill up 2 times, 4 fill ups if they drive a DODGE. $198.00 for HST on $1525.00. $37.50 HST on Bear license & fishing license. Night at motel before arrival, restaurant tabs, souvenirs, repair on vehicles etc. This is for 6 days of visiting Ontario.

They don't mind paying either!!

And well they should. With charges like what you charge,so should you. One cabin with 6 hunters @$1595/per,sure looks to me like $9000 per cabin per week. With six cabins PLUS a lodge,it adds up to a cool $54000 per week. Now,let me see,for a 10 week season,it looks like $540,000 assuming full booking capacity. Even at half booking,it's still 5X what the average Ontarian makes in an entire year. Boo-Hoo! You have the gall to whine about resident hunters? Cry me a river!

[terrym]

I don't begrudge an outfitter making as much money as they can. They charge what the market will bear. If that isn't within my mean's so be it. It will be within someone else's or the business will fold. What I don't think is acceptable is for outfitters to be allocated moose tags over and above the same lottery of Ontario residents. Of course we need to change our tag system to accommodate non residents but a point system would do that fairly. I am also opposed to giving exclusive hunting rights to Outfitters at the expense of residents. I think the BMU system for bear hunting is a good one. It protects outfitters from poaching each others bait sites but does not restrict residents from hunting crown land. As a resident I can in theory setup a bait 50ft from an outfitter legally. Of course that would be ignorant and unsportsmanlike but what we are talking about really is locking out residents from vast areas of productive land. The "buffer" zones quoted above could close off millions of acres to residents. The area I moose hunt is dotted with lakes. The overlap of these buffer zones would literally force us out of the area as you would be left with narrow strips at best and most time not have access to what is outside the buffer. On Crown land I say give an outfitter a 100ft buffer on the land his buildings sit on and then everybody plays by the same regulations.
We used to hunt moose out by Dryden and one year an outfitter showed up and literally planted a sign 100 ft from our camp one day claiming access rights. What the idiot didn't realize is one of the guys in camp was a CO and 2 others were OPP officers. we know our rights damned well trust me. When he returned the next day his sign was sitting on our firewood pile, he didn't come back after that.....

[werner.reiche]

I don't begrudge an outfitter making as much money as they can. They charge what the market will bear. If that isn't within my mean's so be it. It will be within someone else's or the business will fold. What I don't think is acceptable is for outfitters to be allocated moose tags over and above the same lottery of Ontario residents. Of course we need to change our tag system to accommodate non residents but a point system would do that fairly. I am also opposed to giving exclusive hunting rights to Outfitters at the expense of residents. I think the BMU system for bear hunting is a good one. It protects outfitters from poaching each others bait sites but does not restrict residents from hunting crown land. As a resident I can in theory setup a bait 50ft from an outfitter legally. Of course that would be ignorant and unsportsmanlike but what we are talking about really is locking out residents from vast areas of productive land. The "buffer" zones quoted above could close off millions of acres to residents. The area I moose hunt is dotted with lakes. The overlap of these buffer zones would literally force us out of the area as you would be left with narrow strips at best and most time not have access to what is outside the buffer. On Crown land I say give an outfitter a 100ft buffer on the land his buildings sit on and then everybody plays by the same regulations.
We used to hunt moose out by Dryden and one year an outfitter showed up and literally planted a sign 100 ft from our camp one day claiming access rights. What the idiot didn't realize is one of the guys in camp was a CO and 2 others were OPP officers. we know our rights damned well trust me. When he returned the next day his sign was sitting on our firewood pile, he didn't come back after that.....

Very good post Terry - my thoughts are the same.

[chris lavoie]

And well they should. With charges like what you charge,so should you. One cabin with 6 hunters @$1595/per,sure looks to me like $9000 per cabin per week. With six cabins PLUS a lodge,it adds up to a cool $54000 per week. Now,let me see,for a 10 week season,it looks like $540,000 assuming full booking capacity. Even at half booking,it's still 5X what the average Ontarian makes in an entire year. Boo-Hoo! You have the gall to whine about resident hunters? Cry me a river!

Your post, again, shows your ignorance!!!

[werner.reiche]

Your post, again, shows your ignorance!!!

What's with all the accusations of other ignorance without every indicating what it is you think others are being ignorant about? You keep replying to others with accusations of ignorance but never a single word to back up your BS & bluster.

Re: trimmers post - sure you're not booked solid all the time - but even at half booked (270k/yr), that's almost 4 times the median Ontario family income (74k) - so his point is still valid even if he has pushed the numbers to the upper end.