Moose hunting Changes

[skull]

BINGO! Matt figured out where I was coming from.
A bounty on wolves won't make it profitable for hunters going north but it will sure get local trappers out there catching them. And if it helps out the local economy then it's a bonus. It's a known fact the trappers can make a bigger dent in wolves in one season then a whole lot of seasons of hunters!

And if werner thinks my 2,000 wolves is too high all I can say was that it was only a guess and a starting figure to show how little a bounty will cost in perspective to what the results to the moose herd will be. The impact of a bounty will show immediate returns - not returns 10 or 15 yrs from now like that hair-brained SAVE THE CARIBOU SCHEME!

AND A FULL FLEDGED RETURN OF THE SPRING BEAR SEASON AND A 2 BEAR LIMIT

bear densities and numbers are sky high so let's get a handle on them NOW! We can always readjust when our ungulate problems are behind us.

We need action NOW and action FAST.

What we don't need are more studies and public meetings and blah blah blah!

Not only 2 bear limit, I wanted to be like in 1988 when I start hunting bears as many you can kill spring or fall

[SK33T3R]

Not only 2 bear limit, I wanted to be like in 1988 when I start hunting bears as many you can kill spring or fall

I REMEMBER THOSE YEARS WELL!

every deer tag or moose tag was a combo tag deer/bear or moose/bear

and bear outfitters could hit the client up for extra cash if the client wanted to get a 2nd bear.

I mostly hunted as a resident and our group of 10 bear hunters never abused it! We limited our harvest and gave the $ to the gov't for each tag.

I think what pushed the gov't to institute the 1 bear per year limit was because of the black market for gall bladders. A guy could go crazy and make a lot more money from the galls then what the small licence fee was back then.

I don't think we need a return to unlimited hunting but a 2 bear per year would sure be nice!

They currently issue 2nd tags in a few units and there is hardly any participation for them at all. Why this is not province wide is beyond imagination! Those desk biologists should stick to saving frogs and salamanders and let us - the hunters - and the OFAH handle the big stuff!

[SK33T3R]

In the words of the OFAH, "start managing moose and not just moose hunters". Trappermatt - you're absolutely right that high trapper participation would be required in order to kill enough wolves to benefit the moose population. I'd be afraid of abuse of the bounty system like what happened in Manitoba or Saskatchewan (forget which). Trappers and hunters were bringing in feet from wolves harvested outside of that jurisdiction in order to collect the bounty. Scamming the government and not doing a g0ddamn thing to help the management program.

so because there's a possibility of abuse - we sit back and do nothing! All our trappers are registered which will help! Also make it an offence with a super duper fine for the abusers!

or get together with Manitoba / sask / alberta and get everyone on board

if we don't we're just going to sit back and fiddle while Rome burns! There's a reason why we track HISTORY!

To guide us in the future! all I can say is WTF!

[chris lavoie]

Like I have always said, the moose started downhill when they closed the spring bear. The finishing shot was the wolf hunting restrictions brought in by the liberal government in Jan. 2005.

Don't need more than 1 bear tag a year, just bring in the non resident bear hunt (spring) to help fix the bear problem. Will also help the Ontario government to pay some bills!! Maybe we can open our Tourist centre again (the one that cost the Liberal Government a couple of million to build) at the western entry into Ontario.

Or just have trappers trap more bears if a spring hunt is out of the question.

[sawbill]

I'm convinced moose started going downhill long before the closure of the spring hunt. More logging roads, less habitat, the introduction of ATV's, more free recreational times, earlier retirements and smarter hunters are all factors that have impacted the moose population.
And I might add ribbon rail has led to an incredible increase in the number of train killed moose.

[SK33T3R]

Don't need more than 1 bear tag a year, just bring in the non resident bear hunt (spring) to help fix the bear problem.

Or just have trappers trap more bears if a spring hunt is out of the question.

Chris
why have trappers catch surplus bears?

a 2 tag system would bring in way more $.
outfitters could get $400 or $500 for that extra bear. Butchers will be busier and taxidermists!

And selling a bear hunt now becomes super attractive. Many a hunter - especially with bears - has experienced "ground shrinkage"

your previous statement kinda contradicts itself.

How much is a trapper gonna get -- $100

[ninepointer]

In central Ontario, automatically allow any hunter with a deer or moose license to take 1 bear during the 2-week rifle deer season or 1-week rifle moose season.

[fishy steve]

Chris
why have trappers catch surplus bears?

a 2 tag system would bring in way more $.
outfitters could get $400 or $500 for that extra bear. Butchers will be busier and taxidermists!

And selling a bear hunt now becomes super attractive. Many a hunter - especially with bears - has experienced "ground shrinkage"

your previous statement kinda contradicts itself.

How much is a trapper gonna get -- $100

open up spring bear hunting, but stick with basically the same system thats in place now... meaning, 1 tag, but in wmu's that have either alot of bears, or not alot of hunting pressure, have a second tag available to purchase...

reduceing bears to vermin status wont do much good, as then we will have no moose to hunt, and no bear to hunt... then all the mnr needs to do is keep giving out 5 extra deer tags per hunter, and within the next 5 years, we will sucessfully have nothing left to hunt in ontario...

[chris lavoie]

Skeeter, I agree it is contradictive comment. But if there is no spring hunt to manage the bears, somebody needs to take the bears. The fall hunt just does not do it.

[SK33T3R]

open up spring bear hunting, but stick with basically the same system thats in place now... meaning, 1 tag, but in wmu's that have either alot of bears, or not alot of hunting pressure, have a second tag available to purchase...

reduceing bears to vermin status wont do much good, as then we will have no moose to hunt, and no bear to hunt... then all the mnr needs to do is keep giving out 5 extra deer tags per hunter, and within the next 5 years, we will sucessfully have nothing left to hunt in ontario...

Steve

The reason why the MNR issued 2nd bear tags in units was because the bear harvest could sustain it! The hunter participation has been dismal. Of course the units they issued were way the heck up in nowheresville. Most guys (residents up that way) just don't give a rats azz about bears. They especially don't care about giving the govt the extra $. SSS is a way of life.


In the units south of where those 2nd tags were issued MNR identified this as another area where bears needed more control - along came the spring trial season. This is an effort to get more bears harvested but a true bear hunter could either fill his tag in the spring or in the fall. The net result was - The actual yearly bear harvest didn't change at all.

allowing a second bear seal would allow the gov't more control over bear numbers then selling combo licences such as deer/bear or moose/bear.

The nice thing about additional seals is the MNR can cancel them at a moments notice if the harvest was too great. B

UT like we're all aware - and it's glaringly apparent

The MNR really has NO IDEA of numbers / densities etc etc. - especially bears.

I've talked to the bear biologist in my areas about a 2nd seal - and it's like talking to a wall.

They won't even issue 5 or 10 tags just on a trial basis to see what - if any hunter interest there might be.

just a closed door and his way or no way!