Boat Safety

[werner.reiche]

I'll play devils advocate... How do you plan to swim or get yourself back in the boat if you've hit your head on the the side of the boat or landed on a rock when you fall out? Chances are, you're not going to fall out if you haven't slipped or hit something.

FishFrenzy

Very, very, very few PFDs will keep an unconscious persons face out of the water, particularly if you fall frontwards out of the boat.

What I see here is people looking for a solution to a problem that isn't there.

The majority of boating related drownings fall into three categories
- drunks falling out of boats (1991-2000 stats 37% with alcohol suspected in another 6%. 31% unknown. Only 27% of boating drowning victims know to NOT have involved alcohol).
- idiots ripping around recklessly, usually on craft with more HP than they can handle
- people boating in bad weather who decided to "make a run for it" instead of finding somewhere safe

Cold water and hypothermia (which life jackets provide very little protection against) were a factor in 36% of drownings. A ban on cold water boating would be far more effective than life jacket use.


You might save a few of those with life jackets, but lets address the root cause of the problems, not waste time on the bs "what if" scenarios that in reality, almost never occur.

[northernontario]

Wearing your PFD has nothing to do with whether or not you're the licensed operator of the boat. Do you expect a licensed or unlicensed passenger to wear their seatbelt while in your car? If the passenger is over 18 and can suffer the monetary consequences of being charged with no seatbelt, regardless of whether they've got a license and have taken a test... do you let them go unbelted while you drive?

I guess my perspective is different. I grew up with life jackets, just like I grew up with seatbelts. Now my kids are growing up with life jackets, just as they are with seatbelts. Car doesn't move without your seatbelt on, boat/canoe shouldn't be moving without the life jacket on either.

A swim test to obtain a boaters license makes little to no sense. An unconscious person can't swim.

It's worth noting that seatbelts are not 100% effective, and neither are airbags. But as a volunteer firefighter, I've seen people ejected from vehicles not wearing seatbelts. Maybe he would have survived, maybe injuries sustained prior to ejection would have resulted in death..... but just like a seatbelt, a PFD sure doesn't do anything if it's sitting on the seat beside you.

[Frogger]

I'm old and grumpy. Nobody gets in my boat without a PFD on period. Short or long trip. Just makes me feel better.

[werner.reiche]

So these posts about "unconscious in the water"...
Have a look at http://www.boatus.org/life-jackets/.
The most commonly used lifejacket (where I boat - about 99%) are the type III.

Which are:

Good for protected, inland water near shore, where chance of immediate rescue is good.
Not suitable for extended survival in rough water.
Not designed to turn unconscious people face up in water.

So if we're going to bother with mandating them - at least make it the ones that work - see type I.

[kickingfrog]

It will never happen to us.

No one plans on ending up in the water.

We are selfish and full of machismo, but we have the right to be fools for now.

[werner.reiche]

No - I've ended up in the water a couple of times. Both times I just walked to shore - I was a passenger.

What is being foolish is pretending that the life jacket is the be-all-end-all to boating safety - which it is not.

[greatwhite]

I wonder how many wear a helmet while walking downtown in Toronto or Ottawa or a helmet in the bathtub?? Some of the lakes I canoe on I can paddle across literally in 5 minutes I probably have a trillion percent chance more of getting killed crossing the street in a small town then flipping my canoes in these small lakes.

Some of the rivers I use to canoe were only 3 - 4 feet deep and 10 - 20 feet wide.

As Werner says some of these PDF will not help if your unconscious.

[Bushmoose]

N

What is being foolish is pretending that the life jacket is the be-all-end-all to boating safety - which it is not.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that? But it's a good start.

[FishFrenzy]

Very, very, very few PFDs will keep an unconscious persons face out of the water, particularly if you fall frontwards out of the boat.

What I see here is people looking for a solution to a problem that isn't there.

The majority of boating related drownings fall into three categories
- drunks falling out of boats (1991-2000 stats 37% with alcohol suspected in another 6%. 31% unknown. Only 27% of boating drowning victims know to NOT have involved alcohol).
- idiots ripping around recklessly, usually on craft with more HP than they can handle
- people boating in bad weather who decided to "make a run for it" instead of finding somewhere safe

Cold water and hypothermia (which life jackets provide very little protection against) were a factor in 36% of drownings. A ban on cold water boating would be far more effective than life jacket use.


You might save a few of those with life jackets, but lets address the root cause of the problems, not waste time on the bs "what if" scenarios that in reality, almost never occur.

LOL - I wasn't wasting time, only starting a discussion. I didn't realize a discussion forum wasn't for discussion; hence my "I'll play devils advocate". Why such anger to something as simple as suggesting you may need one if you're knocked out. Calling out a reason why someone may choose to wear a PFD isn't BS, it's another view on the subject.

Regardless of your stats on life jackets most worn, if you are face down it's still easier for a passenger / passerby to retrieve you and begin CPR if you're above water. To suggest that we should just ban things all together as a counter argument is ridiculous.

I also am guilty of not wearing my life jacket at all times - but I also don't see this thread advocating for 100% compliance, rather others views on safety. I was merely suggesting that wearing one isn't a bad choice, and opening the discussion up. I'm not advocating for more controls and rules to curb stupidity.

FishFrenzy

[werner.reiche]

LOL - I wasn't wasting time, only starting a discussion. I didn't realize a discussion forum wasn't for discussion; hence my "I'll play devils advocate". Why such anger to something as simple as suggesting you may need one if you're knocked out. Calling out a reason why someone may choose to wear a PFD isn't BS, it's another view on the subject.

Regardless of your stats on life jackets most worn, if you are face down it's still easier for a passenger / passerby to retrieve you and begin CPR if you're above water. To suggest that we should just ban things all together as a counter argument is ridiculous.

I also am guilty of not wearing my life jacket at all times - but I also don't see this thread advocating for 100% compliance, rather others views on safety. I was merely suggesting that wearing one isn't a bad choice, and opening the discussion up. I'm not advocating for more controls and rules to curb stupidity.

FishFrenzy

No anger - just pointing out the reality is that only a very few life jackets (rarely used by recreational boaters) help an unconscious person. As far as my suggestions being ridiculous - if we are concerned about saving lives - they make more sense than mandating life jackets - or since we like the word "ban" - banning non-pfd boating.

Wearing one is never a bad choice - but your reason for wearing it might be - and if the reason your wearing one is to protect yourself if you are unconscious in the water - at least make sure you are wearing one that will address that problem.