MNR sure messed up the moose hunt

[300Sniper]

15% of the moose kills is still 15% of the moose kills.

If we have a declining population then why are we killing off any of the breeding stock and any of the next years stock?

Even if it is 10% why should we keep doing it if the population is dropping like everyone says it is.

If there are only 20 animals and 10 die, should that hunter be able to kill 1 of them, or 10% of that population that was killed of?

I think we have a stupid system here, we have numbers dropping all over the place and people are shooting moms and babies with no sex determination on the babies, how does that help the population come back.

If the draw is not something that works for everyone then just close moose hunting for 5 years and observe the population, better than not having any moose to recover in 10 years.

As for the natives, they are only 2% of the population of Ontario, I get that moose are shot by these hunters but why does everyone blame the natives for everything.

Like I said, our impact is a very low percentage. The MNR has made drastic cuts in tags so much so that if we accounted for 15% of kills before and 80% of tags have been reduced then we can only account for 3% now and you still want reductions... The problem has to be dealt with from the top, reduce predation and make "everyone" accountable for their kills by having equal rules for all.

Cutting more tags or shutting down the hunt all together is like blaming the homeless people for a poor economy. Making change to the small minority at that level is not going to make a difference to the overall situation.

[300Sniper]

Time to go catch some salmon ☺

[revr]

I'll tell you how foolish it is closing the hunt for calves in the 1st 2 weeks . Or group of 7 drew 4 cow tags in 16c . Obviously we will not even try to fill all the tags but if we even fill 2 tags, the bears and wolves will probably take care of the calves that these cows would have had with them. We would be just as happy with a cow and her calf and our hunt would be over. How can the MNR not see the system they have in place now that the calves will be left to fend for themselves and this will not happen.

Exactly! This is the awareness I was trying to make with this thread, but a lot of people don't see it

[JBen]

Come on guys, do some research..... Licensed Hunters account for a very small % of harvested / killed Moose. I'm not interested in finding the source but it's less then 15%.

The moose population decrease, if it does in fact exist, is firstly impacted by predators followed by environmental conditions. We are seeing a decrease in moose because of the cancelled spring bear hunt as well as the need to pay for coyote / wolf tags north of the French which used to be free. Predator numbers have increased, moose numbers have declined.

The third reason might be speculation but has to do with natives and poaching which involves killing moose 365 days a year and not recording the harvest.

Environmental conditions include the changing landscape with regards to forestry combined with a couple of cold winters as well as disease.

Us as hunters come in around 4th and as mentioned, account for a very small % of the impact on moose.

I'm not fond of the MNR and the changes that have taken place, however, if you want to make a difference, buy a bear and wolf tag when you go up north and split your time up between hunting moose and hunting predators....

I don't understand why people T off on the MNR (not you Jeff).We know
~Nowhere, not even remotely enough COs
~Nowhere, near enough boots on the ground, or biologist in labs. If not for mandatory returns and other where would their data come from? How much do you think it cost to send techs into the field and have boots on the ground?

~We know changes in habitat can have big impacts
~We know the laws of nature. If Rabbits are disappearing is anyone surprised Coyotes are exploding?
~We know there are unregulated aspects.
~We know why Lions and many more disappeared.

~We know, the MoE and MNR get less than 1% of the budget.
Im not a Moose hunter and so don't know the nitty grittys of the draw etc. Do hunt deer and I don't mind at all seeing tags drastically reduced last year.

I doubt anyone will ever be able to say it's "decease", or it's Predators, or its unregulated hunting or its.
All the above Im guessing.

So is the Problem the MNR who is tasked with the Impossible? Or is it Queens Park, or is it a populace that in truth doesn't care about conservation. If "we" did, the politicians would listen and more money would be flowing to the MoE and MNR. And then maybe they might have a better handle on things.

As for the new study. Again, why do they need hunters help so much. And if you care, what does it hurt?
Better something than nothing.

[revr]

15% of the moose kills is still 15% of the moose kills.

If we have a declining population then why are we killing off any of the breeding stock and any of the next years stock?

Even if it is 10% why should we keep doing it if the population is dropping like everyone says it is.

If there are only 20 animals and 10 die, should that hunter be able to kill 1 of them, or 10% of that population that was killed of?

I think we have a stupid system here, we have numbers dropping all over the place and people are shooting moms and babies with no sex determination on the babies, how does that help the population come back.

If the draw is not something that works for everyone then just close moose hunting for 5 years and observe the population, better than not having any moose to recover in 10 years.

As for the natives, they are only 2% of the population of Ontario, I get that moose are shot by these hunters but why does everyone blame the natives for everything.

Natives are a huge part of the problem, just most people don't see how bad it really is, I personally know of one native fella who in one fall shot 27 moose! Yes 27, he then sends them up north by plane to a fly in reserve where the meat is sold!

[Fox]

Natives are a huge part of the problem, just most people don't see how bad it really is, I personally know of one native fella who in one fall shot 27 moose! Yes 27, he then sends them up north by plane to a fly in reserve where the meat is sold!

That would not be part of the treaty rights or in line with the reserves.

I have a few friends who are Native hunters, this would piss them off to hear more than any white guy here, they are being dragged through the dirt by the bad of their group.

[revr]

That would not be part of the treaty rights or in line with the reserves.

I have a few friends who are Native hunters, this would piss them off to hear more than any white guy here, they are being dragged through the dirt by the bad of their group.

I live in very close proximity to a reserve, I also have native buddies that hunt, they take one moose maybe two a year, but there are a lot of them that take high numbers of moose each year, they hunt at night with spot lights and only hunt from the roads for the most parts. but nobody will address this problem, they should not be able to shoot a firearm at night! anyone can shoot a moose in the headlights, but hey Canada says its legal for natives to do it.

[Fox]

I live in very close proximity to a reserve, I also have native buddies that hunt, they take one moose maybe two a year, but there are a lot of them that take high numbers of moose each year, they hunt at night with spot lights and only hunt from the roads for the most parts. but nobody will address this problem, they should not be able to shoot a firearm at night! anyone can shoot a moose in the headlights, but hey Canada says its legal for natives to do it.

I would love to see the legality of night hunting and the use of lights being legal for native hunters.

The guys I know have to hunt on treaty lands, which is generally at their home reserve or around that home reserve and they do have seasons and quota, those seasons and quota are just part of the band, not part of the province. When it comes to Algonquin and deer I know another group who hunts on their treaty rights and although they may take 2-3 deer a year they are always bucks.

I don't have numbers to back it up but I cannot believe that the percentages of Natives poaching or over hunting is all that much higher than that of non-Natives. You hear about the trailers full of Walleye being trucked out of NW Ontario, the buck pictures on Facebook of guys that are shooting dozens of deer a year and at night.

It is not just a Native problem, but there are no COs.

I do agree with you though on the policing, you look at Nippissing and you want to vomit over the BS that goes on there, the Bands do not seem to give a crap about the future but I still believe that this is the exception rather than the norm in the province.

[revr]

I would love to see the legality of night hunting and the use of lights being legal for native hunters.

The guys I know have to hunt on treaty lands, which is generally at their home reserve or around that home reserve and they do have seasons and quota, those seasons and quota are just part of the band, not part of the province. When it comes to Algonquin and deer I know another group who hunts on their treaty rights and although they may take 2-3 deer a year they are always bucks.

I don't have numbers to back it up but I cannot believe that the percentages of Natives poaching or over hunting is all that much higher than that of non-Natives. You hear about the trailers full of Walleye being trucked out of NW Ontario, the buck pictures on Facebook of guys that are shooting dozens of deer a year and at night.

It is not just a Native problem, but there are no COs.

I do agree with you though on the policing, you look at Nippissing and you want to vomit over the BS that goes on there, the Bands do not seem to give a crap about the future but I still believe that this is the exception rather than the norm in the province.

Google, supreme court rules pit lamp hunting legal for natives, there have been multiple cases of this, one within 20kms of my home town in NW Ontario, a native was charged for night hunting, got off because the precedence has been set at the supreme court level, any night of the week in September or October I can go for a drive and see where the natives are driving their mini vans on the bush roads, they pull up to every cut and shine their high beams into the cut, no moose they drive to the next cut, I see this all the time, I agree that there are lots of white man poaching that goes on as well, just the amount of moose taken by natives is way higher. treaty lands are huge in NWO its not just a small area around the rez, we even have natives fly out of their reserves, which are in prime moose hunting territory except for the fact that they have shot them all, to hunt off rez because it is to hard to find a moose near their rez. the native moose hunt is something that will never change, we just live with it, I see it everyday, when a moose shows up to be flown up to a reserve it doesn't bug me because we see it everyday, I laugh at how they handle it, 4 quarters wrapped in black garbage bags still warm is disgusting, but hey im not eating it.

[revr]

oh and I am originally from north bay and what is happening at Nippissing is horrible!