Hunting up grouse with a dog

[Winchey]

Just don't command your dog to flush at the trial, whats the problem?

[Cass]

Actually its not so much aimless looking. You should be able to read your dog and often you get that look "its over there" When done right the bird lifts, yet not so pressured where it makes a frantic escape, towards the shooter which has a nice open shot.

Good to know. I was just going on what I saw in the videos posted - the hunter did an awful lot of walking around before actually lifting a bird. I don't think either type (flusher or pointer) is superior over the other, a good nose is a good nose. I appreciate good dog work regardless of the method.

[Sharon]

Just don't command your dog to flush at the trial, whats the problem?

The flushing is not the problem.


"In a field trial , the dog won't flush unless given the command, which won't happen in a field trial - must be steady to flush and shot , but will relocate , if used to doing that when needed which equals a disqualification." quote Sh

As I said the flushing is not the problem ; the relocating is. Once the dog gets used to relocating on its own when hunting, waiting to be sent to relocate by the handler in a trial is a challenge for the dog.

[Jakezilla]

The flushing is not the problem.


"In a field trial , the dog won't flush unless given the command, which won't happen in a field trial - must be steady to flush and shot , but will relocate , if used to doing that when needed which equals a disqualification." quote Sh

As I said the flushing is not the problem ; the relocating is. Once the dog gets used to relocating on its own when hunting, waiting to be sent to relocate by the handler in a trial is a challenge for the dog.

If your dog is trained it isn't a challenge.

Relocating in a trial is only a problem if the handler has whoa'd the dog or the handler is making a flushing attempt. A self relocation during either of those circumstances will end your run. I allow my dogs to self relocate in trials, it avoids unproductive points and allows them to pin running birds if it takes a few minutes to get to them. The biggest mistake most handlers make is they whoa their dogs as soon as the dog stops and commit the dog to standing still until released. I allow my dogs to break on their own until I get in front of them and start flushing, then they know they need to stand there. If you never let your dogs self relocate they will never learn how to hunt and distinguish between "the bird is there" and "the bird was there". If my dogs stop and I get in front of them there needs to be a bird there. It is all part of the training process and it requires a lot of wild bird contacts.


Making a pointer flush on command is easy but you better fully break him first or he will start busting birds on you before you get there. If I was going to do that I wouldn't let it flush every bird I would do some myself just to keep the dog guessing.


Cass, this isn't a slam on flusher's because you guys can get birds too, but the pointing dogs will find birds that the flusher's won't just due to the difference in ranges. A flusher's hunting range I imagine is inside 40 yds, the range of my pointers, when hunting, is up to 150 yds. When the grouse are scarce the pointers will find more birds just due to the extra ground they cover.

[Sharon]

good point I forgot : the dog can relocate in a trial if you haven't whoa'd the dog or got in front for a flushing attempt.

so true:

"The biggest mistake most handlers make is they whoa their dogs as soon as the dog stops and commit the dog to standing still until released." quote Jakezilla

[Winchey]

That is exactly right. I allow my dogs to relocate on their own as well. Nothing worse then beating brush for 150 yards to a point, only to find the bird ran away and is long gone. Until I have started my flush it is between the bird and the dog.

I have also been lazy a few times and didn't want to flush in some sort of rats nest or blow down or something and have had the dogs do it. Just makes it a little more difficult to keep them broke doing that all the time.

[ninepointer]

With a flusher you generally have ample time to get ready for a shot. Similar to a pointer going on point, a flusher gets birdy and more animated when it scents the bird. I can pretty much pinpoint the exact moment a bird is going to flush when hunting over my spaniel.

Perhaps Cass or other flusher owners can chime in with some advice...

I'm on my first bird dog, a lab, which works close when I want it to; generally about 10 yards in grouse & woodcock cover. But she picks up scent a long way off, and when she gets birdy I've got to move FAST to ensure I'm in a position to shoot when she charges in. I'm not finding much time at all to get ready.

[Cass]

If she scents it far off would that not give you more time? If you need more time to get in position, hit the stop whistle when you see her get birdy. Then release her to flush. Does she sit to the flush?

[Grasu200]

Awesome!

As you can see by this cover , it sure helps to have a pointing breed when hunting grouse . ( I'm not talking about shooting them by sight on an open trail.)

In these videos , for those that may not know how such a dog works : The dog points; the hunter looks for the bird to put it up; no luck, the hunter goes back to the dog and sends the dog to relocate. Shot of the bird is not shown as it's hard to shoot and video at the same time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMTN...layer_embedded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAEd...layer_embedded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O43X...layer_embedded

videos by Grange

Cass/Krakadawn spaniel folk:

How does this cover work with a spaniel ? Wouldn't it flush the bird before you could have a decent shot?

[Ugo]

The obvious factor in a trial is that if your dog self relocates, it can't bump the bird in that effort! I guess that's stating the obvious... Even if I'm hunting my pointer and it flushes on a relocate, I will not shoot at that bird. It is unacceptable to me personally - not the self-relocate, the flush is though.
There is no "better" breed. A good flusher is better than a poor pointer and vice versa.
We all have our preferences however I'm grateful to have had the pleasure of having hunted over wonderful dogs from both sides of the house. A good dog is something to behold. It's the same reason that I look for a gun that contributes to my hunting experience rather than one that simply goes "Boom" or should I say, "Boomboomboom" when you pull the trigger.