Black Powder Season

[Gun Nut]

When I look at the new in-line muzzle loaders and other modern muzzle loaders it's always been a puzzlement to me, why my older black powder breech loading firearms shouldn't equally qualify for the late fall deer hunt. Why restrict it to just a muzzle loader, why not simply a black powder season? Clear the modern muzzle load is more equal to the modern breech load gun, and far superior to many of the older black powder breech loading firearms.

You don't stop hunting because you get old. You get old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

[MikePal]

I think it makes it easier to enforce when the definition is that it has to be 'front' loaded (down the muzzel).

I see restrictions, in some states, that ban the use of sabots to keep it closer to the traditional Black Powder guns.

Reading thru some of the regs for the states, we get off pretty lightly here:

a. Only legal muzzleloaders allowed in muzzleloading seasons.

b. In-line muzzleloaders are legal.
c. Must be single-barrel that fires a single round-ball or conical projectile.
d. To hunt deer, pronghorn or bear, they must be minimum of a .40 caliber.
e. To hunt elk or moose, they must be minimum of a .50 caliber.
f. From a .40 caliber to a .50 caliber, bullets must weigh minimum 170 grains.
g. If greater than a .50 caliber, bullets must weigh minimum 210 grains.
h. Shotshell primers are legal.
i. Pelletized powder systems prohibited in muzzleloading seasons.
j. Cannot be loaded from the breech in muzzleloading seasons.
k. Only open or iron sights allowed in muzzleloading seasons. Fiber optics and fluorescent paint incorporated into or on open or iron sights are legal. Scopes or any sighting device using artificial light, batteries and electronic gear are prohibited during muzzleloading seasons.
l. Sabots are prohibited in muzzleloading seasons. Cloth patches are not sabots.
m. Smokeless powder prohibited in muzzleloading seasons. Black powder and black-powder substitutes are legal.
n. Electronic or battery-powered devices cannot be incorporated into or attached to muzzleloader during muzzleloading seasons. ***Muzzleloading projectiles must be certified California legal. This includes Barnes T-EZ & T-MZ, Hornady SST, and Thor bullets.***



https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/articles/muzzleloader-regulations-by-state/

[hunterforever]

If going traditional opens up more opportunities then I am up for it...


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[isartw]

I think it makes it easier to enforce when the definition is that it has to be 'front' loaded (down the muzzel).

I see restrictions, in some states, that ban the use of sabots to keep it closer to the traditional Black Powder guns.

Reading thru some of the regs for the states, we get off pretty lightly here:

I's not the case anymore. Powerbelt and other snap-on bullets as accurate as sabots.

But I'm not sure if Califirnia rules should be applicable in Canada. This looks like most commie state ever if we are talking about firearms regulation. M14 is not allowed there and this is even non-restricted in Canada.

As for me, breech loaded gun is far more convenient and faster to reaload comparing to any muzzleloader especially when you are on treestand. I would say it is close to break action shotgun rather than muzzleloader. So, we already have shotgun and muzzleloaded only deer season in lots of WMU.

[MikePal]

I's not the case anymore. Powerbelt and other snap-on bullets as accurate as sabots.

The sabot restrictions has pushed some manufacture to make bullets that circumvent the rules, like the BOR Locks:

http://www.oodmag.com/community/show...Lock-MZ-System

M14 is not allowed there and this is even non-restricted in Canada.

not yet...wait for it !

[Gun Nut]

I think it makes it easier to enforce when the definition is that it has to be 'front' loaded (down the muzzel).

I see restrictions, in some states, that ban the use of sabots to keep it closer to the traditional Black Powder guns.

Reading thru some of the regs for the states, we get off pretty lightly here:

The last time I set up a charge for my Zulu shotgun, I primed the case and stuff black powder, wad, and ball into the muzzle of the case, the Zulu was originally an mid 1800's muzzle loader. They unscrewed the muzzle loader breech block, and substitute a tap door receiver. They did the same to the old Enfield cap-lock muzzle loaders, this saved them making up paper cartridges to bite apart and muzzle load, and it allowed them to make metal cartridge to breech load. You either hand load the barrel of a gun or hand load the barrel of a cartridge casing, it fundamentally the same thing. The one difference is you but the cap on the nipple ( yes you heard right, some early cartridge case came with nipples on which you placed a percussion cap), or a primer in the pocket of the cartridge case first, whereas with the muzzle loader the cap is fitted on the nipple last. I realize ,of course that there are many older repeater out there which making a black powder season would bring on line. But hey, what's become of them? Are individuals using modern high pressure smokeless in them? Isn't that a bit dangerous? Why not give them a reason to play it safe with a black powder season? The real determining factor should not be whether it is loaded from the muzzle, but rather does it make smoke.

You don't stop hunting because you get old. You get old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut.

[MikePal]

The real determining factor should not be whether it is loaded from the muzzle, but rather does it make smoke.

Well that kind of thinking won't go over well with the Savage 10ML ii owners

[MikePal]

Just a matter of interest, how many guys do you figure, with black powder breech loading firearms, would even participate in a specific Black Powder Hunt. ? I would think the numbers would be insignificant. If a guy wants to shot his rifle he can do so during the rifle season, no one would care less.

By the By; I have a 11 mm Mauser that uses a black powder cartridge...but I don't consider it a Black Powder gun per se.

[Gun Nut]

Just a matter of interest, how many guys do you figure, with black powder breech loading firearms, would even participate in a specific Black Powder Hunt. ? I would think the numbers would be insignificant. If a guy wants to shot his rifle he can do so during the rifle season, no one would care less.

By the By; I have a 11 mm Mauser that uses a black powder cartridge...but I don't consider it a Black Powder gun per se.

No kidding I have one as well, took deer hunting this fall, charged with smokeless. Doesn't mean I might not charge it with black powder should the opportunity present itself. Hell the .303 British started out as a black powder round. There are others 32-20, 32-40, 38-55, 44-40, and 45-70 to name a few. No 30-30's, they never started out as a black powder firearm. Would these firearms be a leg up on the modern muzzle loading firearms, not really. The precondition that makes them all equal is after you fire the first round you have to wait for the smoke to clear, even with a repeater.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

[isartw]

The sabot restrictions has pushed some manufacture to make bullets that circumvent the rules, like the BOR Locks:

http://www.oodmag.com/community/show...Lock-MZ-System

Yes, sounds reasonable. I see the only reason of not using sabots is those bullets perform better on dirty barrel. Still not sure about that but will keep researching.

not yet...wait for it !

Oh man, you don't say Will keep fingers crossed in hope that Justin and gang will be busy with refugees and stuff like that and have no time to revise firearms regulations