Regs test

[finsfurfeathers]

Definitely nothing wrong with getting pulled over for a check, but the question is where it stops.
The situations people use the expression 'poaching' always gives me a chuckle: Not encasing a firearm on the way in/out, wearing camo on the orange hat, having lead shot in the glove box, etc. Really that's what they worry about?
To me poaching is taking game out of season, wrong gender/age, not having a licence, letting meat spoil.
That's what they should be after IMHO, but giving insignificant tickets to the average guy takes less effort and yields a higher turn out.
Treating hunters by default as a bunch of rednecks won't get neither of us anywhere. The vast majority of hunters follow the rules and want that hunting will be around for future generations. The MNR cannot be everywhere, where hunters are. So instead of capitalizing on that, they continue the "policing" rather than supporting their customers. I'm not putting the blame on the COs; the rules are set up to toss out little tickets instead of major fines for actual poaching.

In a perfect world I would agree with you. Unfortunately humans are not perfect. Basically people fall into three groups. The A group are those very few ones that follow every rule and reg to the letter of the law regardless of who is watching. Than there are the few C individuals that couldn't care less about anything else as long as their needs are meet. Than the vast majority of us that fall into the B group that walk the line interpreting laws to suit their needs all the while saying its just a small infraction if they feel the need to break a rule. Problem is the A group leading by example doesn't pull the C group up however more often than not its the C group that pulls the B group down to their level. Just look whats projected to happen in Port Hope come Fall 2016 during the salmon run. With the degeneration of the fishery to a free for all measures will be enacted to severly police the area with zero tolerance for any and all infractions. The city will pay for a cop to be specially training in the MNR and will patrol the stretch 24/7. That is why I feel a strong presents needs to be out there. A figure of authority needs to be that a figure of authority not your buddy but a watch dog.

[GW11]

But these stops aren't really similar. If the cops stop you because they're looking for a vehicle that left the scene of an accident, you can bet they're going to be asking what you were up to before they stopped you. Of course the CO who stops you isn't going to stop at "You guys hunting? Okay, then."

In both of the situations GW described on this thread, the CO had clear reasons to investigate. In the first instance, you have two guys riding with a shotgun in the cab during a gun season for moose, sans orange, and GW already told us that their original plan was to keep an eye out for grouse. In the second instance, you have hunters with a deer after the season has closed. In both cases there is reasonable cause to think you might have an offence. You can't fault the CO for investigating, because investigating is the job you pay him to do.

Tricky questions ought not to bother you. You're not obliged to answer them, you know. Identify yourself, provide your licence, and beyond that any answers you give are voluntary. You can't be held for refusing to answer a question.

Not to nitpick at you here Welsh, but this was during the open bows/muzzle-loaders only deer season. We were bringing the deer home on the Tuesday and the season was open until Saturday. I imagine if we had been transporting this deer home during the closed season we might have had a few more questions to answer.

[welsh]

Well, I couldn't remember the details. Anyway, point is there is some grounds on which to investigate.

Re Waftrudnir, I would hope no one would ever get charged just for having a box of lead shells in their truck while duck hunting. (Actually as I posted above, at this point I think you could beat any such charge in Ontario.) On the other hand if you're hunting ducks with lead I'd expect you to be charged. The CO has the job of figuring out which is which.

[arclight]

People need to follow the rules, it I plain and simple. If there are any grey area charges, then that is what court is for. If you think the police or a Co made a bad decision, then you can tell it to a judge. In another thread, there is a guy upset about getting a ticket for not submitting a moose questionnaire. His argument is that he forgot to do it, and is complaining that other people have not been charged. It boggles the mind to think that some folks think that way.

[Bluebulldog]

People need to follow the rules, it I plain and simple. If there are any grey area charges, then that is what court is for. If you think the police or a Co made a bad decision, then you can tell it to a judge. In another thread, there is a guy upset about getting a ticket for not submitting a moose questionnaire. His argument is that he forgot to do it, and is complaining that other people have not been charged. It boggles the mind to think that some folks think that way.

^^^^^This.

People often overlay the "Gee, and I guess you drive the speed limit all the time?" argument on this one.

That's not exactly comparing apples to apples, now is it?

Speed limits are enforced, however culturally we are accustomed to some leeway, as law enforcement has the existing practice in place. Why is that? Well, if you inflate your tires properly, and they're sized right, you still may vary in your speed ( off your speedo by as much as 5kmH) depending on your rate of travel. There are other mitigating factors as well.

COs have a much more rigid set of rules to follow. While an LEO knows when you are engaging in the activity of driving, a CO needs to make that determination, often while out in the field. There are many things that need to be factored in and determined. An LEO has one, maybe two.

Think on this one for a sec. You get pulled over for speeding, maybe not by much, but say 40km over.....you get a fine, right?

You get caught violating the rules while hunting or fishing, you can lose your boat, your truck, the gun you had etc. So the impulse to evade when asked might just be a little higher than some. A CO knows this when they are speaking to anyone out in the field.

I encountered my 1st CO this year, in 30+ years of hunting and fishing. Altogether a decent experience with the guy. Open and forthright, and once done, then small talk. Actually glad to see him out in my neck of the woods ( Arden ON), and won't mind at all if I see him again.

[finsfurfeathers]

[QUOTE=Bluebulldog;941458


Speed limits are enforced, however culturally we are accustomed to some leeway, as law enforcement has the existing practice in place. Why is that? Well, if you inflate your tires properly, and they're sized right, you still may vary in your speed ( off your speedo by as much as 5kmH) depending on your rate of travel. There are other mitigating factors as well.


Think on this one for a sec. You get pulled over for speeding, maybe not by much, but say 40km over.....you get a fine, right?


.[/QUOTE]

"maybe not by much"..... 40 km over holy crap what you thinking?

[Bluebulldog]

"maybe not by much"..... 40 km over holy crap what you thinking?

Hahaaha, well I was thinking that 50 over, you lose your car....

[finsfurfeathers]

Hahaaha, well I was thinking that 50 over, you lose your car....

Would love to see the look when you say " Gee officer at least I wasn't doing 50KM over". The last time I was pulled over already had my license out the window before the cop even pulled onto the road. Could see her walk up with a what the ? is going on. Greeted her with ya saw you last minute new I was toast. Went back to her car came back with a response knocked it down to 10 over next time be more careful.

[trimmer21]

I used to laugh when someone said "That's OK.It makes up for all the times you didn't catch me." LOL

[arclight]

"maybe not by much"..... 40 km over holy crap what you thinking?

The law is black and white. You always have the option of explaining things to a judge if you get charged.....