Wynne's 2016 Budget

[sawbill]

Straggle, the google comment wasn't directed to you but to JB. I 'm certainly not naïve about why MNR cuts occurred. I worked there for 30 plus years through the best and worst of times. Whether the government of the day cares or not about the environment is not the issue. The issue is where will the majority of the public accept cuts to services when those cuts are an absolute. Save a few trees or educate the kids? Provide fishing/hunting opportunities for a few thousand outdoorsmen or pay to repair/replace obsolete infrastructure?
Back in the early 80's MOE hired a pile of inspectors to monitor, regulate and enforce our environmental laws. Where are they now? All gone because of budget constraints and those constraints translates directly to perceived lucrative job security--which is what we're discussing here. That and pensions.
The public are demanding cuts to the public service. One way to reach that objective is to contract out and/or privatize. That way the public doesn't pay a salary for 12 months for snowplow operators. You're saying we're getting poorer service from these contractors (the hwys aren't as safe anymore). When the city plowed our streets, complaints were minimal. Now its contractors and the work isn't up to snuff. But the city is saving a bundle. So, which do you want?

You're all saying you want what is best for your personal situation. Better roads. Better education. But your priorities are not my priorities.
JBen, my rant has nothing to do with MNR but the perception many here have that all government has job security and great pension plans. Underworked and overpaid. Any government agency I've dealt with in recent years have gone through nothing but staff cutbacks, privitization of programs, part time contracts and the such. Upper management enjoys the same salaries as whats expected in private industry. If you want to pay peanuts, you get a monkey. If you want quality you gotta pay--same as private industry.

[mosquito]

They pick up and BO to Mexico. If the government did the same you'd be whining about lack of services.
MNR got gutted because there are far more life pressing issues that the public demand for their taxes--police services, health care, education. You're a master at the Google thing, research the salaries of MNR to other government agencies and you will find they are at the absolute bottom of the barrel.

Heck with the electricity costs, infrastructure cost, taxes...

They just go to Ohio
Leamington Greenhouses - 200M project in Ohio
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windso...ohio-1.2917918

Automakers
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gm-t...lant-1.3055605
GM to cut 1,000 jobs at Ontario plant
Automaker outlines plans to invest $5.4 billion in U.S. but nothing in Canada


but yes some do go to Mexico
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/carm...gear-1.3108148
Carmakers say adios to Canada as Mexico shifts into higher gear
Mexico now makes more cars than Canada, a trend that's not expected to change


and a bit of Wynnes's "infrastructure" spending they are bragging about today.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdoPlgRUkAAL3jy.jpg

[trimmer21]

With all the extra corporate,health,WSIB taxes and increased Hydro costs,I'm surprised GM,Ford and Chrysler are still here. Other than the quality of the worforce building quality vehicles,there;s absolutely no further incentive to stay.

[JBen]

I know Sawbill your frustration is aimed more at people who think everyone in Public Service is immune to cuts. Or everyone in PS makes say...80,000...90,000...100,000, 150,000 and has lavish Pensions. Forgetting that just as in "private", there are those who...And isn't it funny how usually those in PS who tend to pay the prices are those that are easy targets, lower in food chain.

Perhaps I shouldn't say, "So Sawbill"...
But it is beyond frustrating to know, sooooo many, normal every day folk are getting crushed by things, to the point where even "they" ( They being Ms Wynne and JT) are selling......people are trouble, we need to do something about their retirement prospects...
tax
tax
tax
some more paying for "everything" and "everyone".

And anytime it comes up, many in PS and their Unions especially (who lets not forget spent millions campaigning hard for them, and have since 2003...creating the mess and now continuing it..

meanwhile people who can't find 2 nickels just keep taking it on the chin.

RE Municipal taxes.
See Downloading various services.

Definition of insanity?

Funny, don't think anyone just for arguments sake has said.
Gee, do those who earn 150,000 and more really need DBPs?
Gee, do those who earn 75,000 (the DUO mean) really need DBPs that are 50% 60% 0t 70% funded by tax payers who...Maybe its time reduce the tax payer funded portion 25%?
or other/similiar ways to save without laying thousands off.

Maybe then they wouldn't raid the MoE ( Gee and here I was thinking the environment is oh so important to them) or the MNRF, or lay off RNs and hire practical Nurses as they are doing now..WHy, because Practical RNs cost less than RNs.
funny that

[yellow dog]

Straggle, the google comment wasn't directed to you but to JB. I 'm certainly not naïve about why MNR cuts occurred. I worked there for 30 plus years through the best and worst of times. Whether the government of the day cares or not about the environment is not the issue. The issue is where will the majority of the public accept cuts to services when those cuts are an absolute. Save a few trees or educate the kids? Provide fishing/hunting opportunities for a few thousand outdoorsmen or pay to repair/replace obsolete infrastructure?
Back in the early 80's MOE hired a pile of inspectors to monitor, regulate and enforce our environmental laws. Where are they now? All gone because of budget constraints and those constraints translates directly to perceived lucrative job security--which is what we're discussing here. That and pensions.
The public are demanding cuts to the public service. One way to reach that objective is to contract out and/or privatize. That way the public doesn't pay a salary for 12 months for snowplow operators. You're saying we're getting poorer service from these contractors (the hwys aren't as safe anymore). When the city plowed our streets, complaints were minimal. Now its contractors and the work isn't up to snuff. But the city is saving a bundle. So, which do you want?

You're all saying you want what is best for your personal situation. Better roads. Better education. But your priorities are not my priorities.
JBen, my rant has nothing to do with MNR but the perception many here have that all government has job security and great pension plans. Underworked and overpaid. Any government agency I've dealt with in recent years have gone through nothing but staff cutbacks, privitization of programs, part time contracts and the such. Upper management enjoys the same salaries as whats expected in private industry. If you want to pay peanuts, you get a monkey. If you want quality you gotta pay--same as private industry.

Well said sawbill. Thank you. I'm done on this thread !

[JBen]

Well Yellow Dog.
You seem to forget that currently. The typical person
loses 43% to taxation
pays 40% for housing, food, clothing.

Does not have the same security as PS.
For gods sake 300,000 people lost jobs in manufacturing alone in 2008.
Look at Alberta.....And before you point fingers at "Oil patch" workers who made tons...Recall not everyone does. And even the lowly waitresses and waiters who aren't getting big tips, serving full restaurants are feeling it...

65% do not have Pensions.

Where do you think the money should come from? Seeing as how if we want it we have to pay for it.

Hate to "break" it to you but the dog (private) wags the tail.
Meaning the better off "private" is, the better off "public" is. The more the economy grows...
Food for thought.

[JBen]

Some reading for you YD.

http://business.financialpost.com/ne...ties-in-canada

Heres more
Ignore the actual salaries (not pertinent), just look at the growth (see that word growth...its not getting smaller its growing) in 2015.

Wheres all this reduction you speak off?
Growth of over 10%...Hmmm, last I checked the economy is sucking wind and growth in the real world is 1.5%
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...ased-1.3011758

Again wheres all these reductions? Its GROWN 82% since the peons in private took it on the chin in 2008

[COLOR=#333333]In 2013, there were 97,796 people on the list, up 11% from 2012. The list has grown by 82% since 2008, when fewer than 54,000 people appeared.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/ontarios-annual-sunshine-list-balloons-again-as-the-province-struggles-to-rein-in-compensation

We can only speak in generalities, so to assume there haven't been cuts, or some areas aren't thread bare and understaffed. Well that would be folly....But overall

PS has better security than private, how many links and articles would you like me to link before we stop arguing that.

Or simply look at what is now occurring in ALTA as well

[yellow dog]

Yup your the expert good luck with your future.

[JBen]

Not an expert YD, but your an expert of?
You disect budgets and employment numbers?


if I recall correctly the "sore" point seems to be that PS is being gutted, as or more than those in private?
funny, I haven't seen any reports, or articles, or studies that show that per above. Simply read the one about hiring....... Or

82% growth overall in just the SS list........

also one reason municipal growth has exploded...is due to DLing.

for the record
111,000 people now on the SS list. If they all make 100,000 (many make far more) but let's be conservative.

111,000 x $100,00= how much?

[sawbill]

Well, JB, having sat with labor lawyers for 3 hours you've managed to keep your composure here. My compliments.
I'll just blame industries' woes on the unions and leave it at that.
Hey, Yellow mutt! Wait up there. I'm done too.