Turtle Trapping.

[redd foxx]

Is it not better that we err on the side of caution and control harvest even if we (MNRF) don't have the data yet? Other wise we may wait too late to do anything about the problem (assuming one exists). We'd be pretty quick to condemn MNRF if they did that.

[gooseman]

the MNR actually has decoy turtles that they put along highway 62 during nesting season so they can charge people who deliberately hit them.
This applies to Blandings, painted and snappers as well.[/QUOTE]

I seen a news story about using decoys down in the Windsor area. They actually had people swerve to hit it. Not sure what the charge was or if it stuck but kudos to them for bringing this in the publics eye.

[Fenelon]

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/snappers.htm
This one article is a pretty good overview of turtle biology, life history, current conservation concerns, etc. It refers to most of the US research papers. It's always been a no-brainer for me, that the current Canadian harvest regs are totally unsustainable (eg. an animal that takes up to 35-40 years to achieve sexual maturity for northern Ontario populations, sometimes only breeding every third year, annual juvenile recruitment back into the population of less than 2%, etc., etc.). I'd have a difficult time personally justifying a turtle stew dinner , knowing that the animal I just killed was probably older than me (I'm 50). Legal harvest is the least of our concerns. I doubt the average Ontarian realizes just how established the black market/poaching industry is in the province. There are poaching lines running all over southern Ontario. I find at least a couple lines every summer (Kawartha Lakes)when I'm trapping or fishing, and it gets reported to MNR enforcement. I've found numerous lines where you'll find 75-100 baited trot lines over a 4-5km run of a river, or a section of open marsh. I wonder what the poacher gets for these when they get sold in Toronto.

[redd foxx]

I suspect it is a pretty lucrative market.

[stillfisher]

[QUOTE=gooseman;957028]

Tons and tons of habitat restoration. You'll have to point that out to me. We're losing wetlands at an alarming rate.

Rural Lambton Stewardship Network are the local group that restores and creates wet lands here in Lambton county. On my 60 acres they created 4 surface acres of wetlands. Neighbors on 3 sides of me have created many more acres. That's just in the 2 adjoining concessions. They are responsible for many many areas through out Lambton county creating hundreds of acres of new wetlands and wildlife habitat. My area is 6yrs old and the turtles have moved in and living the dream. I see all different sizes and species from snapper, painted and even seen a blandings. Where I use to live close to the shores of lake St. Clair. The marshes were full of snappers. The farmers dykes were covered in turtles during egg laying season. Those marshes were restored by the Canadian Wildlife Services. I am not sure who does this type of work in other areas but I am quite sure it's not being done just around me. So there is my proof

Good for you for being part of the solution. How lucky to have 60 acres.

[maskedburito]

An animal that takes 50 years to replace itself in the population is not a suitable game animal. I'm an avid hunter, but only when it's sustainable. There are plenty of other game out there too hunt! I'm not against hunting! There are plenty of animals out there I would love to hunt but agree we shouldn't...

I personally do not think turtle trapping is sustainable and there is loads of research out there saying this. If you think otherwise then you are not looking at the right sources or understand science. And if you don't believe for some reason there is enough evidence, then doesn't it make sense to restrict harvest until we know for sure? So we don't get ourself into a bad situation.

Ps. Road mortality is another huge part of their decline. And I also agree with most of you that hunter harvest is not the most major concern, which I understand is frustrating because we always seem to get hit the hardest... But we have to do our part. Best case scenario is tackle the black market... Habitat loss kills more than any hunter could.

I am always disappointed in hunters that are so obsessed with just defending their rights... They just automatically want to harvest whatever whenever or fight against any action taken to conserve species. How about we try and be a part of the solution, hunters are super knowledgable about what's out, lets contribute in a constructive way this way we can help possibly raise harvest quotas! Or maybe learn we shouldn't harvest something...

[flytyermiller]

An animal that takes 50 years to replace itself in the population is not a suitable game animal. I'm an avid hunter, but only when it's sustainable. There are plenty of other game out there too hunt! I'm not against hunting! There are plenty of animals out there I would love to hunt but agree we shouldn't...

I personally do not think turtle trapping is sustainable and there is loads of research out there saying this. If you think otherwise then you are not looking at the right sources or understand science. And if you don't believe for some reason there is enough evidence, then doesn't it make sense to restrict harvest until we know for sure? So we don't get ourself into a bad situation.

Ps. Road mortality is another huge part of their decline. And I also agree with most of you that hunter harvest is not the most major concern, which I understand is frustrating because we always seem to get hit the hardest... But we have to do our part. Best case scenario is tackle the black market... Habitat loss kills more than any hunter could.

I am always disappointed in hunters that are so obsessed with just defending their rights... They just automatically want to harvest whatever whenever or fight against any action taken to conserve species. How about we try and be a part of the solution, hunters are super knowledgable about what's out, lets contribute in a constructive way this way we can help possibly raise harvest quotas! Or maybe learn we shouldn't harvest something...

I don't even know where to start with this statement...
Let's start with the age issue... Why would an animals age (age at sexual maturity and total lifespan etc...) make any difference in making it a sustainable game species?
That's what slot sizes, sex limits, catch limits, open-seasons and age limits are in place for... Surely you are not suggesting that there is NO formula where turtle trapping could ever be sustainable, even if the species population and health was steady/healthy or even growing?

next we can tackle your 'takes 50 years to replace itself' statement. keeping in mind their lifecycle and reproductive lifetime potential is on par with many other game species.

[maskedburito]

I don't even know where to start with this statement...
Let's start with the age issue... Why would an animals age (age at sexual maturity and total lifespan etc...) make any difference in making it a sustainable game species?
That's what slot sizes, sex limits, catch limits, open-seasons and age limits are in place for... Surely you are not suggesting that there is NO formula where turtle trapping could ever be sustainable, even if the species population and health was steady/healthy or even growing?

Are you kidding me? An turtle that takes 50 years to replace itself in the population vs a deer that replaces itself in several years? That to me means major differences in harvesting.

I'm honestly shocked that you think that sexual maturity and lifespan don't effect harvest... Basic ecology/biology

You are right there may be some formula to turtle harvest but given the current ecological situation I doubt there is a very sustainable situation. Considering turtle populations are declining without harvest...

[flytyermiller]

And for the record, i'm not "just defending my rights" i would gladly take some time off if i found out numbers were down in my area. but the truth is geography plays a big role. Where i trap turtles, my family has been trapping for almost 60 years (literally the traps go in the same spots every year) and we have only seen an increase in size, health and numbers. we believe this to be for two reasons, rising water temps, and lack of turtle trappers. so if our numbers are appreciably rising, how could our trapping not be sustainable here? granted, you have to take my word for it that the numbers seem to be rising here. Which is not to say, that this is the norm, simply our observations.

[maskedburito]

Is it not better that we err on the side of caution and control harvest even if we (MNRF) don't have the data yet? Other wise we may wait too late to do anything about the problem (assuming one exists). We'd be pretty quick to condemn MNRF if they did that.

Exactly! Someone with common sense! If we don't start acting this way, we will see a poor future for hunting in Canada.