Is this a JOKE!!! (bear)

[sawbill]

Back in the 70's very few residents would ever be caught hunting a bear mainly because most bears hung around the landfills that every town had. And back in the 70's everyone was getting a moose tag so there was no need to hunt a bear which, at best was considered vermin by residents.
Even the non-resident hunt hadn't yet taken off. Around this area you could count the number of licenced outfitters on one hand now there's 10 times that number.

[chris lavoie]

Your right, there were few outfitters in the seventies. 1981 bear hunting became popular here. 1988 there were many outfitters, reason for bear management areas in 1989. Bear hunting was still booming into the late nineties. Here at least.

[sawbill]

In the late 90's the U.S. dollar was somewhere around $1.50 to our cdn dollar so that's a big part of why the non-res hunt was attractive and lots of guys got into outfitting. My concern is many of these characters are still operating today and are more concerned about making a buck in the present and not worrying about the future. If the hunt goes bust they've made their money. Add to that the number of residents who are now taking part in the bear hunt. There's so little science available about bear populations that I can't see taking a chance on extra tags being handed out.

[chris lavoie]

There are very few outfitters here conducting a spring hunt this year.

[Snowwalker]

City folk!!!

Chris, you are so proud of living UP NORTH. Try Pine Point, Hay River, Fort Smith, Yellow knife, Uranium City, Eldorado, inuvik, Car Cross.
I bet you had to look at Google maps to figure out where most of those places are. I don't, having lived or spent time in everyone of them.

Where I grew up they have a word for people like you,..."WANT-A-BE".

[SK33T3R]

I'll say it loud and clear--I don't believe in extra tags for bears anywhere in the province. By the MNR's own admission, they do not have a handle on the actual population of bears in the province. We've all seen it pegged at anywhere between 80 and 110 thousand animals. I'd sure like to know what these figures are actually based on, probably someone's best guess.
Back when there was a spring and fall hunt one outfitter in Sudbury was taking up to 110 bears per year. That was non-res hunters only and now we have a lot more residents involved in the hunt. The first thing that become noticeable was the bears taken were getting smaller and smaller. That's a sure sign the good breeders were disappearing. The big males were being shot off.
Until serious money is spent on getting a handle on the actual population we're cutting our own throats by pushing for extra tags to take bears that just might not be there.

I DISAGREE! Many other provinces have a 2 bear tag system. And most of those provinces have reputations for BIG BEARS. An outfitter can and WILL charge an extra fee for an extra bear and of course the MNR will profit also. Most hunters are happy just taking one animal and then there is the skill factor. I know lots of guys that buy multiple tags for deer down here in our unit. Most guys that get a deer are often just lucky. You could give some of them 20 tags and they'd be eating 19 of those tags. As an outfitter you make the rules for your BMA and you determine what gets shot by the non residents.
The overall complaint agreed upon BY ALL is we have too many bears. Any extra tags can be added or withdrawn by the MNR in very short order. I don't think the demand will be that great for extra tags. so I sure hope someone can get us this information.

A few years ago I talked to someone in the MNR and they told me out of 150 tags available at that time only 15 or so were actually bought and like 3 bears (province wide) were shot. DUH???

I have not shot a bear since 2009 I lost a monster in 2011. Shyte happens as they say. I have fed, nurtured, fattened up, video'd probably over 100. I will not tag a bear unless it's a target bear for me. BUT It sure would be nice to take a smaller one just to chew on!

can someone more connected or with better skills get these numbers.

NOW COMES A CHALLANGE!

Part A: Can anyone find out how many EXTRA tags were available LAST YEAR (2015) in each unit or totally across the province.

Part B: And this is where the rubber hits the road! How many of those EXTRA tags were actually purchased and how many of those were actually PUT ON A BEAR!

I think the numbers will SHOCK us ALL!

[sawbill]

That's true that other jurisdictions have extra tags but they don't have the hunters either that Ontario has. That's the big difference. Proof is that those other provinces are getting bigger bears than what we are.
They don't have better management than us, just less pressure.

[SK33T3R]

That's true that other jurisdictions have extra tags but they don't have the hunters either that Ontario has. That's the big difference. Proof is that those other provinces are getting bigger bears than what we are.
They don't have better management than us, just less pressure.

Well one thing we do know - currently we have too many bears. Many, many northerners have a shoot and shut-up policy when it comes to bears. I know a group of deer hunters - all northern locals that one year shot 7 bears during their deer hunt. Just because they seen 'em. They left them all. They hate 'em! So if in fact we have too many why all the indecision on the ministry when granting 2nd tags. I don't think the demand for 2nd tags is all that great. Non residents who hunt with outfitters usually abide by the wishes of the outfitter. And most residents probably just don't give a shyte. There are some of us who might really enjoy a second tag. The MNR should grant 2nd tags across the board to all units on a very limited basis and actually get some solid numbers in stead of guessing at what happens - like they currently do.

again all I want is an answer to my question.

Can anyone find out how many EXTRA tags were available LAST YEAR (2015) in each unit or totally across the province.

Part B: And this is where the rubber hits the road! How many of those EXTRA tags were actually purchased and how many of those were actually PUT ON A HUNTERS 2nd BEAR!

[sawbill]

Well one thing we do know - currently we have too many bears. Many, many northerners have a shoot and shut-up policy when it comes to bears.

I can't agree with this observation at all. I want proof and that's not asking too much. Do we have too many bears or too many people?
I have enough history with L&F/MNR to remember most of the field staff (lands, timber, fire, even garage personnel) assigned to nuisance bear control for much of the summer and this was back in the early 70's. We have no more bears now than what we had back then. What we do have is a much more expanded urban area where bears are being drawn in subdivisions. There are no more dumps to keep them away.
And we do have change where bears are migrating southward, essentially returning to old stomping grounds that they once inhabited. I'm not quite sure of the exact cause of this phenomenon but I suspect logging, urban development and even climate patterns.
So why two tags? To take the pressure off the government of the day. Just look at where the extra tags were handed out--in the areas where bears had started to re-establish themselves. North Bay, Sudbury, Blind River, the Soo--nada!

[SK33T3R]

Sawbill you and I would drink quite a few beers before one of us would win this one! Of course you'd buy!

Even if I and my hunting partners had 2 tags we would in all probability only shoot a few bears.

And if we had 2 or 3 meaters down for our group of 8 them that would probably be all we'd take. not 8 for 8 tags.

Some for meat and then wait for a monster.

Odds are we'd still be waiting.

BUT I would give the MNR coffers double the $. and isn't this what it's all about!